Billyfergus

You sure about this? A proper mask correctly fitted will certainly reduce the risk - and its all about reducing risk.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ading-covid-19

bobbytables

Basically nobody who is not a medical professional is going to achieve proper use of the masks. And even medical professionals get it wrong an alarming amount of the time.

nancypants

but the same as everything, it’s a technique which can be learned if people can be bothered

IME the best at putting these things on properly are often the likes of cleaners and porters. The worst tend to be senior medical staff who perhaps feel they don’t need to be taught

bobbytables

That sounds right.

Absolutely, given some careful study people can learn this, but I don’t think any aspect of the response so far has taken the form of “slow down, study, learn, consider, respond”. The masks are a placebo that people slap on their face when going outside or on a flight in order to feel better, but don’t wear in any of the higher-risk situations (home, hotel, cafe/restaurant/bar, etc).

narvik

Totally agree....but:

Would like to add, and this has hardly ever been mentioned here: the use of goggles.
There's been numerous suggestions that infection can also occur through the eyes, and wearing a N95+ mask should really be complemented with the wearing of a face-shield or indirect-vented or non-vented eye goggles.

This story from late January, and there has been very little follow-up since, so it might not be as crucial as initially thought:
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/arti...-saying-it-was

Adelphos

In the US, the official advice/doctrine is that wearing masks are useless and in many ways counterproductive for those that are healthy.

In South Korea, it seems like wearing a mask in large meeting spaces is expected / almost mandatory.

South Korea seems to have gotten its transmission under control - is the US in the wrong here?

trueblu

I think this is a reasonable question, and indeed one that I actually raised with some colleagues this morning...

Early on, when it was clear the lockdown on Wuhan was botched (i.e. far too late), I communicated, indirectly via contacts/ colleagues to the highest levels I could that limiting onward transmission via scrupulous hand hygiene and possibly masks (to prevent onward transmission, NOT self-protection) may be effective mitigation processes...

For sure, COVID-19 is not being transmitted quite the same as influenza, and some combination or key measures taken in Asia are more effective than what's happening in Europe...masks could be part of it. Massive testing may also play a role. Probably civil obedience to public health directives is also important...

It's hard to do a single intervention trial in the midst of an emergency, so unless we e.g. get another couple of cruise ship outbreaks, and airlift masks to one and not to the other, it may be hard to tease out. OR, we get some really granular transmission information on a discrete outbreak (e.g. new importation to an island community or whatever).

tb

MSPeconomist

If we're comparing how COVID-19 is currently spreading in Asia versus elsewhere, I wonder whether some of the differences could be explained by the hypothesis that the corona virus has been floating around in many parts of Asia for a while, so that a significant fraction of the population has already acquired some immunity from low level infections that went unnoticed or were assumed to be colds or flu. Don't epidemics tend to quiet down or burn themselves out when the population has achieved enough herd immunity?

Of course, the masks also tend to prevent those with unnoticed or low level infections from spreading the virus further too even if they don't prevent the wearer from becoming sick.

trueblu

By phylogenetic sequencing, we can infer that it's extremely unlikely this jumped to humans before November 2019...

tb

hugolover

This looks like an Avon GSR. An excellent gas mask. Far better than the Russian/Soviet crap on eBay. Hope the filters are in date.

The iPad looks like it’s been eaten!

SightseeMC

Anecdotal experience as a Seoul resident who flew to the US last week. I am not an expert in diseases, nor a medical professional.

Seoul residents wear masks FAR more often than Americans. Generally, that is because of pollution concerns, but there is always some illness awareness. From what I've read in the Korea Herald and Korean Times, SK CDC says that transmission is far easier by surface contact than coughing on someone (as in cough on a surface, and I touch the surface = I get the virus), though masks are a good precaution just in case you already have the virus.

Again, just from a layman point of view, the reason for SK preventing a mass outbreak beyond the super spreader in that church seems to be aggressive testing of potential contacts. Once someone was found to be infected, testing of everybody in their circle was rapid and comprehensive, allowing tracking of vectors quickly. So where China went for mass quarantines, Korea went for targeted containment. Seems to be working but not out of the woods yet.

Now that I am in the US for another week, I actually worry a little bit more about getting it here than in Seoul.* Testing protocol is a joke, and there's no comprehensive plan for nationwide coordinated tests. And given the nature of the US health care system, poor people with no or limited health insurance are not in a position to skip work when they only "may" be sick. That's not meant to be political, it's just a fact of life. As for travel, there were zero temperature checks at LAX when I flew directly from ICN, and no questioning of whether I had been to Daegu recently or not. It was just "Welcome to the USA, disperse across the country however you'd like!" In contrast, temperature checks have been standard at ICN for years.

So I think we will see a pretty large outbreak in the US, because the things SK did well - testing, a nationwide plan, and basic health care for all - aren't things that the US excels in. The masks are just a small part of the difference between the two countries approaches to the issue.

*Went out with a friend/client and a potential investor for his business. My friend was coughing up a storm all through dinner, and "covering his mouth" by making a circle with his hand and focusing all the phlegm in a cone right at anybody he was facing. Yet the investor was mocking me, no symptoms and coming from ~100 cases for the 10MM people in Seoul, for potentially exposing him. I swear if I catch the darn thing from my buddy and get quarantined when I get back to Korea I will burn his business to the ground when I can get back here next.

A318neo

I think that is for the good of the government, not the people.

I think everyone should be wearing masks so that the people who are sick but not showing symptoms are not spewing out their germs. However, a big problem is that there aren't enough masks for 2 masks per day per person because that would be 14 billion masks per day, 600 million per day in the US.

A318neo

I disagree with the US attitude. Wearing a mask if you are not sick won't harm anything. It may encourage you not to pick your nose. Wearing a mask if you are infected but haven't yet shown symptoms might reduce the spread. It doesn't increase the spread. A huge problem is that there aren't enough masks so authorities might be trying to conserve.

Jane's Addiction

I disagree too. Its hard to buy the argument that everyone wearing masks doesn't help hinder the spread of a virus.

username

How the US handled this has been a joke [Redacted political comment]

For masks, there are arguments on both sides. There is definitely a huge shortage of masks everywhere so governments are not encouraging people to wear them.

I think if one takes the "any bit helps" attitude, then something is better than nothing - assuming the mask is clean, you don't touch the inside with your dirty hands when you put it on, etc. Even if it does not protect the virus, it serves as a reminder and reduces the chance of the person touching his/her face.

In Taiwan, they ran out of masks in late January so the government started rationing them as it ramped up production. It started with 2 every 7 days per person and is gradually increasing. They modified the national health care system to record your purchases (and they are only available at pharmacies to those with the national health care card). Now the "2.0" version is starting and one can even buy online and pickup at convenience stores, which are all over Taiwan.

Since visitors don't have the national healthcare card and can't get masks, they are now thinking about giving people some free ones when they enter Taiwan.