rankourabu

Ding! This is what it comes down to isnt it?
The OP let CO off the hook when they accepted to go in Y.

I'm sorry but I still cant get over 200k for a pair of domestic tickets in 737s....
Even in F, assuming $800 a ticket, youre getting a value of under a penny a mile

craz

and if for any decent reason a person will be willing to pay the 100k at least get yourself up to LAX and fly on a 752 to EWR and sit in a BF seat and get the better meals. But then its a Q400 down to BWI with a possible change of Terms. But still over all a much better flying experience for the Miles

sbm12

Would your opinion be different if they found SaverPass rewards? You keep focusing on how much was paid for the tickets. I honestly do not think that the amount paid matters. At all. These could have been passengers on full F fares and I would think that the most they deserve back is the difference in price between full Y and full F on the one segment that was downgraded. Since they paid with miles the difference in price is actually zero.

No. The passenger was affected by irregular operations and made a choice to fly in Y rather than pursue other options for a F routing. That is actually what was reported here. CO did not fail to deliver anything, other than the OP to IAH on time and we have no idea why that happened or if CO is actually liable for that misconnect. Even if they are, they should not be swapping people around at T-5. That is why there is the cutoff farther out.

I do not expect the GAs to guess on whether a passenger is going to make a short connection or not. When the passenger doesn't arrive at the gate by the cutoff and it is time to process the final paperwork and get the plane on its way I do not want agents holding off and hoping that the passengers make their connection so that they can keep their F seats. I want the seats processed and the door closed so the flight can push on time.

Vermando

"The sense of entitlement that a refund of the ticket is due because of this is insane."

If you want to know why much of the public often seems to hate the airline industry, just look at that attitude. In what other industry can someone pay for a superior product, receive an inferior product, and then be insulted when he says he thinks he's entitled to some compensation for the difference?

sbm12

The customer chose to take the inferior product. They could have waited around and worked with the agent to find an alternative. They chose not to. And based on the fare rules for the ticket they purchased the class of service they flew in has no different cost for Y on the one segment. Yes, it is likely the OP would have chosen a different flight if they knew one was going to be in Y but the actual cost would be the same.

Oh, and I am a consumer, not a provider of the services in question, so whatever you're implying about me is probably wrong.

craz

although I believe we have another 1 post wonder with our OP, and I agree with alot of what you have posted so far. I sort of have to disagree with you here. lets say the OP+ were on their to a wedding or some other time sensitive affair. if it was me id also take a coach seat rather then to not get on(although checked bags will have continued on if they made the flight) only to be told by customer service that now everything else on CO is full and by rerouting me I will now mess up all the time sensitive plans.

The same can be said lets say for charges on ones hotel bill, if you stay back and wait for a mgr you will miss your flight. So you go ahead and sign the CC slip with the intent of calling up and complaining when you have the available time. You can say , well if you signed the slip then you forfeited your rights to a refund.

So in that sense if the OP had some sort of deadline or need to be by X in BWI I dont blame them for grabbing the Y seats and saying to themselves we will work it out later. No sense in losing not only the FC seats but their time as well.

AMF in NJ

You keep coming back to the OP's choice in the matter as if it were a fair one. Kill a day off your trip and spend a night at the airport (or would CO shell out for the lovely Days Hotel (not the Days Inn!)?), or take Y on your original flight. Oh yes, think fast because if you don't answer in the next 20 seconds it will be made for you!

The implication is that you've had too much CO Kool-Aid on your flights! Before you know it you'll be littering @:-)s all over your posts.

cruisr

Not for nothing but I really liked the title of this thread. It just cries out to be read....

sbm12

The instigating factor in the whole situation is that there was a delay. From that initial point everything else cascaded. CO did not have other F seats readily available so the customers flew in Y.

Had they bought their tickets that way initially the cost would have been the same. That is different than for a paid ticket.

Could CO throw them a bone? Sure. But they are not liable for it. Any refund of fare paid is owed by the vendor who sold the ticket, in this case NW. And, as I mentioned above, I'd be pretty annoyed if I used CO miles and got NW miles credited back. I would assume that the OP is in a similar but inverse situation.

To the point of the time-sensitive nature of the trip, I agree that having to wait more than a couple hours to get the flights that I want in the cabin I want after a delay that I'm not responsible for sucks. But that doesn't mean that the OP deserves a refund of their fare paid, certainly not from CO. Much like you would go to the company you paid to dispute the service provided in any other circumstance, I think that the OP's beef is with NW on this one to get points back if they want to try.


I drink wine, beer, vodka and rum. And occasionally I drink grand marinier. And I do it on many airlines. But I do not drink kool-aid. I have absolutely no problem calling CO out on things that I think they do wrong, and I do it pretty frequently. I just happen to think that in this instance CO doesn't owe the OP anything.

Folks might disagree with me, but that doesn't mean that I'm in CO's pocket.

J.Edward

Yes. If they'd been saver pass I'd far more forgiving. Ditto for a mileage upgrade.This might be the error in your logic. Let's look at this from another angle: suppose an individual needs to travel from A to B and due to personal and professional obligations, requires transport in at least J or C for the entire length of the journey. As such only itineraries which can offer confirmed space in at least C or J are considered and there is no particular consideration to the carrier or their respective products, only the ability to provide transport from A to B in C/J. The individual then selects and pays for the itinerary which best meets his needs and remits payment to the carrier(s) for the transport.

Within this agreement there is the implied value the class of service is of equal importance to transportation itself as the transportation would not have been considered in the first place without the ability to accommodate the individual in the front. Ergo it would be a fundamental flaw to think the delivery of one component of the agreement (the actual transportation) could justify the failure to provide the second part (the COS) as both were equally as important in the initial decision making process of the individual.

Opting for an EasyPass/PerksChoice/SkyChoice/whatever F/J/C award indicates this to me. The customer through his or her actions has shown the class of service is just as important as the transportation itself (after all if it were not an EasyPass/etc. coach award would be selected) and the failure to deliver one of the components should be considered a complete failure.
Wrong. Like every other airline/hotel/ccard who operates a point based loyalty program an inherent value is assigned to each award. Moreover as NW miles were redeemed on CO, NW will owe CO some consideration for accommodating a WorldPerks member on their flight.

Choice? Again I guess that's a way to look at the situation. CO would have conceivably know sometime before b-squared landed (if not before he took off) of the potential misconnect and at the very least looked to protect him and his wife on a later flight in F before the EUA gobbled up the seats, assuming there were seats there to begin with.
Guess? No, I too think that's a bad idea. But I'd also suggest that veteran hub agents have a good sense of passengers ability to connect. But disregarding the experience argument you'd think that in the least the GA dealing with the incoming flight could have had a cart lined up for the potential misconnects...the flight was 40 mins late.

In general I'd say yes but also I can think of more than a few reasons why it would behoove CO to consider holding certain flights under select circumstances; I don't think a blanket "CO should never hold flights" concept is the best practice.

Xyzzy

For whatever reason, the passengers agreed to be transported in Y. They were, however, transported partially in F. Technically, the ticketing airline (NW) owes the passengers nothing. However, as a good will gesture I think that half of the difference between Y and F for half of the return is reasonable. That represents 25k miles in total.

AMF in NJ

I am not savvy on the inter-workings of airline partnerships, so I do not expect CO to refund them CO miles. What I expect CO to do is to partially refund them WP miles (i.e. the 'currency' paid to purchase the tickets). Given the award charts it's reasonable to figure out what a fair refund (and I see xyzzy did that) would be to the OP.

sfogate

There does come a time when a GA can no longer hold a flight in hopes that customer connecting will make it. The 15 minute mark is where we start the debate. Alot depends on what is currently happening with the flight we are working. We start looking at the following factors:
1. How many people are possibly going to misconnect?
2. How far away is their arrival gate and how long do we think it's going to
take them to walk/run to our gate.
3. How many people do we still need to seat (revenue and non-rev).
4. How many people do we need to upgrade.
5. What is happening with the overhead space and the carry on luggage...do
we need to start checking bags in.
6. What's the estimate of arrival time in the next city and if it's over 14
minutes from schedule, can we push this flight earlier by 5-10 minutes, to
make for an on time arrival.
7. We still need to print the final paperwork, notify OPs of our final count,
talk to the FAs and Pilots, close the aircraft door.

We either need to change the rules or you need to understand the rules and not complain when the rule (T-15) bites you on the a$$. We can either stop doing battlefield upgrades using misconnecting customers seats (if they are landing before your scheduled departure time) or we will continue to use the T-15 rule. Please do not comment that FAs should be given the responsibility of handing out possible upgrades when the flight departs with open seats. That is not their job, nor do they know all of the rules pertaining to the upgrade policy.

craz

Thats why upthread I said the OP has to complain to NW who can then look to CO. CO cant refund NW miles as they never received any directly from the OP in the way they could have if the OP cashed in CO miles.

I cant call up CO and ask them to book me a free tkt using my NW miles. I have to call NW to do it. Thusly its NW the OP should be dealing with and not CO

ijgordon

The problem is that they "agreed" under effective duress. "Get on the plane NOW in Y or we may not get you home tonight at all."

I've actually had CO call my cell phone when I was running late for a flight -- they were checking to see whether I planned on making it or not.