Continental Bus Connections
 

First off, a call to the moderator(s) on this forum. I apologize in advance if I'm putting this thread in the wrong place. Please redirect it as necessary.

As fuel prices rise (or will, eventually), and pressure on airlines to create more cost-effective means of travel increases, I'm wondering whether airlines might offer increased codeshare connections with rail and bus services. In Europe, this is starting to become common, with Air France/KLM looking at ways to use alternate sources of transport for getting passengers to/from hubs efficiently.

In the US, our rail system is terrible, but with our extensive highway network, we have more potential for facilitating bus connections. Although our geography is not as compact as that of Europe, there are arguably opportunities for airlines to replace very short flights with alternate forms of transport, such as buses.

Flights of less than 120 miles are common to many large hubs, and while the yields are probably quite high, so too must the CASM. Regional jets, which are more fuel-intensive on a per passenger basis, are used on many of these flights, which makes no sense.

Buses could offer a way to improve reliability to nearby markets without significantly sacrificing speed. Aircraft of any size are prone to mechanical problems, as well as susceptible to weather and air traffic control delays. Buses, while susceptible to the first two, are arguably less so, and can still operate even during thunderstorms and other severe weather conditions.

One of the first experiments in rectifying this problem is currently being quietly conducted by Continental (though I'm not sure for how long it has been going on). Continental has replaced its flights from Allentown, PA to Newark with three daily buses, timed to help facilitate connections at the facility. (Continental, however, has maintained flight operations at ABE, with several daily flights to Cleveland).

Arguably, this idea could not merely be spread to smaller markets. Travel between major cities (such as Milwaukee and Chicago or Philadelphia and New York City,) where currently, flight connections are required to reach long-haul flights could be made much cheaper with such a proposal.

Is this a good idea? Has anyone on this forum taken Continental's bus service?

If airlines like Continental decided to replace more of their very short flights with buses, would you travel on them?

If the bus service was as convenient as possible (one which took passengers directly to a special boarding gate for security screening and that tagged bags before bus departure) would that make it more attractive, or are buses simply too dirty/crowded/uncomfortable/slow for such a trip?

What routes are you talking about?

CO already has AMTRAK connection to Philadelphia and Stamford from EWR. And they don't fly Chicago-Milwaukee.

CO just doesn't have that many "very short" routes.

I've wondered since the Q400s have been introduced to the CO Connection fleet if the ABE-EWR route might be served by this AC type as cost effectively as the busses? I would think there would be some savings in the liability insurance CO must carry to transport those passengers by bus.

I think the idea of busses might work in some scenarios (if the timing, cost, reliability and cleanliness are right). A few options that come to mind (though, none from EWR because they have trains on the east coast):

-Houston to Austin, San Antonio, College Station and/or Beaumont
-Cleveland to Toledo (recently dropped as air service), Columbus, Pittsburgh, Erie, Franklin PA (CO really flies there?!?) or even Fort Wayne & Dayton as a stretch. (Heck, they could do CLE-TOL-FWA and CLE-CMH-DAY if the costs and timing could be perfected)

Would I take it? If the 4 things in my first line were worked out, I could take a bus. A couple free drink coupons to elites taking the bus would make it even more comfortable :D

CO Express has had a EWR-ABE / ABE-EWR bus for a long time. I've never used it, but will be using it twice in the next couple of months.

I think the Amtrak connections are gone. If you try to book a trip from ZFV (Philadelphia 30th Street Station), it's listed as an unknown airport. All flights from PHL that connect at EWR are now listed as Q-400 equipment.

Shame....that ZFV booking was a great option that I used dozens of times.

Not a snowball's chance I'd take a bus Austin to Houston. I could see IAH-CLL or maybe IAH-BPT. I think anything over 100 miles (as Austin & SA are) is just too long for a bus ride...

I think that's fair. However, depending on how long such a bus trip could be, a number of routes out of Houston become viable including:
IAH-VCT (Victoria)
IAH-CLL (College Station)
IAH-AUS (a more distant possibility, admittedly)
IAH-SAT (ditto)

CLE-ERI (Erie, PA)
CLE-CMH (Columbus, OH)
CLE-PIT
CLE-FKL (Franklin, PA; a more distant possibility)
CLE-DTW (probably at the outer limit of how far a bus should travel for this purpose)

Admittedly, I posted this topic in the Continental forum because Continental seems to be the only major US airline currently operating such a bus connection. I think an airline that may serve more utility from this would be US Airways, since it has a high concentration of routes in the more densely-populated Eastern Seaboard.

There are numerous routes they serve that have the potential to be served by buses including:
CLT-GSP (Greenville/Spartanburg, SC)
CLT-AVL (Asheville, NC)
PHL-ABE (Allentown, PA)
PHL-MDT (Harrisburg, PA)
PHL-BWI
PHL-NYC (I don't want to suggest that bus service on this route, particularly due to the vagaries of traffic in NYC and the high concentration of business travelers which use the route, should replace all air service. However, it might be an attractive option for some budget-minded travelers)
PHX-TUS (Tucson, AZ)
PHX-FLG (Flagstaff, AZ)

Delta offers us another interesting example:
NYC-BDL (Hartford, CT; at the very upper limit of the length of a bus route)
NYC-PHL
CVG-IND
CVG-DAY (Dayton, OH)
CVG-LEX (Lexington, KY)
CVG-SDF (Louisville, KY)
CVG-CMH (Again, a bit on the longer side of things)
SLC-RKS (Rock Springs, WY; ditto)
ATL-BHM (Birmingham, AL; ditto)
ATL-CSG (Columbus, GA)
ATL-CHA (Chattanooga, TN)
ATL-AGS (Augusta, GA)
(This list excludes routes that are possible with Northwest added to the mix)

I'm not trying to suggest with this post that buses will somehow make turboprops disappear. Regional aircraft still have a purpose. I contest, however, whether routes that are so short, they're really within driving distance, are worth the cost to airlines and consumers, as well as the added burden on the ATC system. Might there be a more efficient way of doing this, and might airlines be able to profit from it?

Problem is that CO has competition at most of the airports listed.

If you're in College Station, would you rather take a 35 minute Eagle flight to DFW or a 2 hour bus ride to IAH?

Similarly, nobody from PIT, DTW, CMH, SAT, AUS will ride a bus 2 hours to fly CO at CLE or IAH. Just no freaking way. They'll fly some other airline.

For some of the routes with no competition like VCT-IAH and FKL-CLE, they are subsidized by the Minimal Essential Air service. These don't need to make economical sense. Those communities get the federal government to guarantee them air services.

I don't see it happening on those two routes, which are almost exclusively flown with mainline equipment, and almost always completely full. Those flights also have a lot of origin/destination business day travel happening on them, which makes it more difficult to replace a 30-45 minute flight with a three + hour bus ride. There's also heavy competition on those two routes from HOU on WN, and running a bus on those two routes would certainly be conceding a lot of the passengers over to WN.

B6Bliss --

Are you sitting on Bainbridge, sipping hot toddy (or some other alcoholic concoction) looking at a map of the US???:p

Being from Seattle, but having lived in several cities that you mentioned as possible bus routes, I assure that many of those are NOT feasible at all.

For example, IAH-SAT would be a 4-5 hour bus ride (if the bus obeyed traffic laws). That would simply be unacceptable.

CLE-CMH is a 3 hour bus ride -- again too long!

First of all, I suspect those estimates are a bit long. For instance, a quick check on Greyhound shows most nonstop San Antonio-Houston buses taking 3 hours and 15 minutes. Adding the distance to the airports, that could be another 15-20 minutes.

But I think the debate about how long is too long for a bus ride, really misses the point of what I'm getting at which is this: Southwest has showed quite clearly that people are willing to pay to fly point-to-point on short distances. I'm not disputing that, and not trying to suggest that somehow, a bus service would destroy Southwest or Continental's business on the Texas Triangle.

However, there are clearly instances, such as with ABE-EWR, where connecting traffic, and more specifically, lower-yielding connecting traffic, could be more profitably serviced with buses. Continental wouldn't be running this bus if it wasn't making money for them somehow, and remarkably, the company is running it, even though there is competition from airlines who fly to other hubs for Eastbound connections, most notably United at Washington DC or US Airways at Philadelphia (the latter, a shorter distance away than ABE is from EWR).

Moreover, it's clear that there are other very short routes being served by carriers, that could far more cheaply be replaced by buses, though I will concede that this is not something that is overly common. Large city-pairs that are relatively close (as cities go) like SAT-IAH may be too distant for buses, but others, like MKE-ORD, TPA-MCO, or PHL-NYC are more realistic.

What we've seen in 2008 is that some customers are quite willing to trade off amenities and convenience for lower fares. Arguably, fees for checked baggage and other add-ons have been met with relatively little resistance. What I wonder about is whether lower-yielding travelers would accept some sacrifice of convenience (a bus ride that's slightly longer, but not 3 hours longer, than a flight) for a significantly lower fare.

I don't know the answer to that question (part of the reason I posted this in the first place), but it's an idea that I feel should be considered by airlines, particularly since they seem to be increasingly interested in the segmentation of their business into elite customers who pay higher fares, and the bargain-hunting seat-fillers (like myself) who scour the Internet for the lowest fares. Those who care most about the fare would take the bus, those who wanted comfort or convenience could fly. Instead of making an airline less competitive, by giving consumers choices, arguably that airline is in a stronger competitive position.

If Continental gave travelers an option such as:
"Arrive at the bus station by 11:40 for a 12:00 bus to Newark with arrival scheduled for 1:40"
or "Pay $40 more each way to arrive at the airport at 12:00 for a 12:45 flight to Newark, with arrival scheduled for 1:45"
there would be a lot more travelers taking buses from Philadelphia to Newark to connect.

This thread again makes me mourn the lack of rail in Texas. Accella type service RGV-CRP-SAT-AUS would rock. Thanks for lobbying that possibilty out of existance WN.

Especially this week as I drive to fly SAT-IAH-BOS ($278 AI 7 day advance) vs CRP-IAH-BOS ($657 AI 7 day advance). Oddly, it's $546 AI 7 day advance to do CRP-IAH-SAT-IAH-BOS-IAH-SAT-IAH-CRP, so WITHOUT driving I save $100, and pickup about 4 additional EQPs. Add $40++ and move the CRP-SAT's to full Y and it's 4 more EQPs for a total of 12 EQPs. That's almost halfway to silver.. Tempting.

I have tried contacting COntinental multiple times regarding this issue. However, they keep saying they are "trying" to fix it (the fact that we cannot use ZFV anymore. Kind of sad. because ZFV had plenty of lower fares compared to PHL or EWR. Interestingly, ZFV comes-up in Orbitz. But, you will only get 50% EQM most of the time (buying on Orbitz).

IAH-SAT is ~215 miles and will take at least 3.5 hours if you go the speed limit.

It's not even the time that is the bad part about IAH-SAT (an to a lesser extent IAH-AUS), traffic is very heavy on I-10 and very unpredictable. A single accident can close the highway for hours. If I am trying to catch a once-a-day flight there is no way I am taking a bus.

VCT I can kind of understand or Sugar Land Regional to IAH, but SAT or AUS doesn't really spark my interest. A train on the other hand, would.