Another instance to not blame gate agent for 'empty' first seats
 

Was on a flight last week where it had been showing 3-4 seats open in first up until departure, and a long waiting list.

As boarding finished, the PDA site showed first booked to 18 of 20. I was in row 2 and overheard the flight attendant approach the pax in 1B/1E and request they move to two empty first class seats further back because the jumpseat was inoperable. The FAs took the seats for takeoff/landing and then went about their service.

To a passenger in coach waiting for the upgrade and monitoring the PDA site this could have appeared as a flight that closed the door without upgrading two passengers, while two flight attendants took the seats.

And we know the accusatory thread that would have been posted here and reached 77 posts of speculation....

Very good fortune that first had not sold out ahead of this flight, or would have seen a couple nasty downgrades on a transcon.

And a small reason to avoid aisles in first -- on top of the FAM issue.

Very, very rare occurance. In case the jumpseat is deemed inoperable the FA's have to sit in a PAX seat (either that or the flight cancels) and it's required to be the seat(s) closest to the exits. In my many years at CO I've never had an inop jumpseat; it's really rare.

The pda site will show the seats in F blocked if they are going to be needed by crew or are oos.

Example:

Agreed - so rare - I have never seen this situation before.

Now I have seen bad FC seats which had to be blocked. Once I had to move to another FC seat because the seat was bad. However, there was a sign on the bad sit prior to boarding - so anyone boarding would have seen the sign on the seat - if they were inclined to count empty FC seats.

Which leads to another point: If there's something wrong with your FC seat, you might want to wait until en route to mention it to an FA. Something that may seem small could end up blocking the seat, and if it's full up front...

It is not always the case that the system knows that the FA's jumpseat is broken, in order to show this on a PDA site or the aircraft's seatmap. If the FA's jumpseat breaks during the flight, the GA won't know this until maintenance inspects the seat upon arrival of the plane, determines that they can not fix it before the flight departs and then maintenance control is notified which will then notify ACI control, which will then mark the First Class seats unable to use. Usually this sharing of information will not be noted until after the affected flight departs. It's rare but it does happen.

In this case - it was known the seat was blocked - but the GA moved me to that seat from another seat I had in F. This was at BWI. I believe she had the wrong seat identified, hence the reason she moved me, then had to move me back - but then to a different F seat. Agreed risky situation.

I concur - I never would identifiy a bad seat, if I am in F, until we are en route. Creeping seat backs are not viewed as bad seats, just annoying.

Technically, a seat that won't stay upright is cause for blocking it.

Rare? Not really. It happened to me last week on the 738. I got to keep my 1A while 1E got booted out of his seat to elsewhere.

Oh what a nice flight without a seatmate :D Although, the FA did come to sit in the seat during the flight to eat her smelly food while I was sleeping :rolleyes:

Just curious...was this CO1880 on Friday SEA-EWR? It happened to me on that flight. I don't remember the ship number but the flight attendant's jump suit was on the fritz. They moved two people to coach for take off and landing and allowed them back to their FC seats for the rest of the flight.

The inbound plane was EWR-SEA...but I couldn't tell you where it was before or after that.

-RM

That sounds like quite an interesting wardrobe malfunction! :eek:

I was on the inbound of that flight --- EWR-SEA Friday afternoon.

Nice to see they at least let them return to first after takeoff.

Rather disturbing repeat of this incident on CO1748 tonight - and if this is the same ship, why isn't the jumpseat fixed yet???

1) GA knows of the issue, but boards everyone anyway
2) FA #1 gives 1B/C the bad news - but tells them it's only temporary, and they can move up after takeoff, then return to coach before landing
3) Finally, GA makes an appearance, offers both customers aisle seats in the back and gives them each a $250 coupon, which they accept gleefully, thinking it's a fair trade for a few minutes of their time
4) FA #2 runs up and scolds FA #1 in the front of the cabin, in earshot of the customers, almost yelling 'those are OUR seats!' and starts berating the other FA 'what if there is turbulence, what if we need to land??'
5) FA #1 tries to argue back, saying there is plenty of time to swap seats if there is an emergency while in flight and they need to land, but the other FA keeps arguing then storms to the back of the cabin
6) Now FA #3 comes up, argues with #1, trying to keep the seats vacant for the flight, claiming it's 'operations', and mumbles something about TSA (must be a FAM on board, but who cares in this case)
7) So, 1BC lost their chance to demand IDB - one of them is an upgrade, but the other is not (according to PDA), and unless it's an award seat, I'm not sure the 250 covers their real loss - and frankly, if I found out I could not return to my F seat for dinner and the duration of the flight, I would be livid - and demand IDB on the spot
8) #1 goes back to work Y, and probably delivers the bad news to the two customers who were counting on getting their seats back

The whole thing was very, very unprofessional -

1) why is this ship flying around with a broken jumpseat for a week now, or why are so many jumpseats getting broken?

2) IF it's an ops rule that the seats remain vacant for the flight, why tell the customer they can come back and sit there during cruise?

3) If the crew wants to have an argument, why do it in front of the customers? Why repeatedly and loudly challenge the decision of the lead FA? If the lead makes the decision, then be quiet and go do your job - don't argue with them in front of customers. If you think something is wrong, write it up after the trip.

I'd say both customers are owed an additional apology from CO, and the entire crew of 1748 tonight needs a refresher on policy, communication and common sense. If one of the customers paid for F, they should get their $250 plus the difference between their paid F fare and the lowest available coach fare available on that segment when they booked.

Get those stupid jumpseat(s) fixed!

Strange -- my aircraft was a 20 seat 738 while yours appears to be a 739. Maybe there was a substitution not noted on the PDA site but...

I am not saying this is the case however these jumpseat issues were fairly common on Northwest during its labor unrest - though most of that was with the maintenance crews. You would see suddenly 'broken' jumpseats and first class seats blocked for things like mutilated ashtray covers.

I thought it was an FAA requirement that each set of doors be manned by a flight attendant durring taxi, takeoff and landing? Putting the FA's back in the passenger cabin would be a violation of that rule.

Actually I think a couple of FAs are in need of valium and/or new careers. Such a display of "put the customer last" is pathetic.
Amen.

David

It sounds strange but it is allowed. The alternate seats are to be closest to the door/s of responsibility.

Ahh ok - well nice to have met you at SeaTac as you walked by me while I waited to board :)

There was definitely a lot of talk in the front cabin before the plane took off and I think there was some discussion between the pilots, lead FA and gate agent about what to do. Ultimately they decided to let two people have their seats in FC after takeoff. I was curious what would have happened if we hit bad turbulence and the captain asked the FA's to be seated.

One other note...the gate agent did 'downgrade' the last two people upgraded and then moved other passengers in the FC cabin around. 1B went to 3B and 1E went to 4A. They didn't just pick the two people in 1B/1E.

I'd have to guess this is the same 738 (with 20 FC seats) causing the problem. I suppose at some point along the way one of the Captains will insist it be fixed before the plane flies.

-RM

The 738 from 1748 had the older style seats and overhead AV - if this is the same aircraft, I just can't understand why the seat can't be fixed?? Surely this aircraft has enough downtime somewhere with a maintenance facility where the new seat can be installed.

It already cost CO $500 in hard dollars just from 1748, let alone the complaints from other customers they've likely had to field as this aircraft flies around.

Fix it, already!!

As you all probably know, deferral of certain maintenance items is allowed for a predetermined amount of time. There are strict rules governing this and the airlines take advantage of it in cases where the AC is going in for routine maintenance very soon or to avoid paying contract maintenance at an outstation or to fly the AC to a station that has the part or to avoid delaying/canceling a flight. There are other reasons and I don't know the exact time allowed for a write-up to be deferred but I believe it's a certain number of legs. And I'm pretty sure the ability to do this saves them a lot more than $500.

If this wasn't allowed, nobody would have to worry about whether they got their seat back in flight because they would probably just cancel the whole flight. Seat problem solved.

Deferring a non-critical maintenance item is one thing - and perfectly fine - but deferring a maintenance item which causes a significant customer impact is quite another - and simply not good business sense.

Almost every single flight that aircraft takes is going to either block (no upgrades) seats, cause a musical chairs routine, or result in a downgrade (and voucher) - we're not talking just $500 here.

If the ship had to fly around for a day or two while either the part was ordered, machined or the ship made it to an airport for the install, that would be one thing - but if this ship is going to tool around the country for multiple days, or even a couple weeks, knocking F people out of the cabin on every leg, that is just a dumb thing to allow.

Let's also not forget the issue of moving the customers around. We have one flight where the move was temporary, another where it wasn't, and my example where the crew fought among themselves over this point, and two customers ended up the losers.

I believe that deferral for something like a jumpseat would be like 3 or 4 legs, not days or weeks. So they don't get that much of a pass. Not positive but that sticks in my mind for some reason. Maybe an expert can chime in.

After taking a quick look (about 30 seconds to look it up in the FA "bible" (inflight manual)), the seats are supposed to be placarded "For flight attendant use only". So swapping is not approved. I'm inclined to believe that the company would take the revenue loss into account when deciding whether to defer a repair. This is all coordinated through SOCC and maintenance control, not by a pilot or a random, local mechanic. Delaying a flight for hours or canceling a flight for lack of a swap AC would be pretty costly, especially if you have to reaccomodate or buy rooms for an entire AC full of PAX.

100 rooms at $100 each = $10,000