ContinentalFan

A very bad idea! Getting ridding of Chapter 11--as is easily inferred from the first paragraph--is a bad idea. Tightening up on the requirements for filing 11 isn't a bad idea. For example, US Airways should have gone out of business when it attempted to reorganize for a second time in nine months!!

supermasterphil

Somebody posted here before than Brussel Airlines (SN) would be a new alternative for connections in Europe. According to new rumors, this might not be the case for a very long time. Yesterday, some newspaper stated that LH wants to buy them....

The new weeks won't be boring in that regard. I think the "we stay independent headline" was not the last, they will still need to do a few more adjustments when it comes to partnerships.

texd

C'mon... everyone loves a little Chapter 22 now and then. Without it, chapter 11 would get boring.

Anglo Large Clawed Otter

LH wants to buy every second-tier airline in Europe.

CO 1E

You can bet that the CO/VS micro-alliance would be terminated if CO teams up with AA and BA.

Anglo Large Clawed Otter

Oh well. BA F > VS J. Also, Top-Tier OneWorld Elites have F Lounge Access. Judging by Seat2A's latest Trip Report, the new T5 BA F Lounge is quite swish. Also, though WTP < VS Y+, being able to earn full EQMs systemwide on BA WTP would be a nice perk.

If one could earn EQMs on BA TATL (unlike the present AA/BA relationship), I would likely dump CO as my preferred TATL carrier, in favor of BA's WTP. BA has enough options ex-IAH to get me where I want to go in Europe. For most of Europe (other than LHR/LGW/AMS/CDG), I'd have to connect through EWR on CO regardless. Might as well enjoy the F lounge in T5 if I'm going to connect at a congested airport with chronic delay issues (EWR or LHR, take your pick)...

CO 1E

You assume that CO would allow 1) reasonable EQM earning percentages on BA TATL flights (not 25% or 0% for low fares), and 2) reward redemption for BA F. I am not convinced that CO would allow 100% EQM's on all but the top coach/WTP fare classes.

International F lounge access would be nice, however.

bernardd

Why would getting rid of Chapter 11 be a bad thing? Do you think it's helped the airline industry in the last 6~7 years? It's easy to argue that it distorts the market place by allowing some carriers to radically change their cost basis to the disadvantage of those that try to stay in business while allowing incompetent management (UA, US, and probably DL & NW) to stay in place so they can repeat the process.

Does Chapter 11 ever really serve the purpose of puting businesses back on their feet. Can you name a consistently profitable business truly world class that's emerged from Chapter 11? And before you mention it, Continental fails the consistent profit test.

Perhaps you're right that some of these areas can be tidied up. How about a rule of Chapter 11 being that nobody who was a Director and/or Executive in the 12 months prior to the filing can remain in position or get stock and/or options when the business emerges. That would focus the mind a bit and cause a bigger clear out of the deadwood, though I'm not sure how the business could operate in the first weeks after the filing?

Anglo Large Clawed Otter

I don't care much about what discount coach on BA would earn. To deny 100% EQMs on a $1,200 "discount" WTP fare IAH-LHR-AMS would be a bit silly. I wouldn't put it past CO, but I'd be willing to bet that WTP fares earn 100% EQMs if this alliance pans out. As for reward redemptions in BA F, that's less certain. However, does OneWorld restrict its members that don't have F cabins (IB, Finnair, RJ, etc.) from F redemptions?

pbarnette

Yep. And don't discount the smaller BA lounges at many of those European destinations. They are usually at least as nice as your typical PC, and usually offer more food.

This is the real issue, isn't it? And what will happen with any JV? Will earnings continue to follow the ticketing carrier? Would BA-coded flights be the only ones offering 25% RDMs/0 TPs? Or, will AA and CO follow suit? Or, would BA change their earning rates? And will you be able to earn Elite bonuses on BA, something that AA Elites no longer get?

I think the BA products are pretty good, but the earning rates are a killer for Y travelers (and the lack of elite bonuses tough, even in J), and I would be uneasy about this potential tie-up.

G-man82

On the highest 3 Y fares, as a CX Marco Polo Club member, I can earn 100% miles/EQM on BA, and then the 4 fare classes below that are 50%. WTP and above always earn full mileage and class-of-service bonus for CX at least. If they can do it, I'm sure CO will arrange a similar deal. The problem of course is the TATL flights and whether or not they actually earn anything. As you all already know, AA members and vice versa cannot earn anything TATL using the other's metal.

Even J lounge access is nice. When I leave for HKG at JFK, I have access to the BA J lounge, and though there isn't a full buffet (that's available only to BA J and CX F passengers) there are finger sandwiches and other snacks, self-serve bar, nice areas to sit and relax, and more in the Terraces lounge.

bernardd

I would have assumed that if you travel on BA you get the same miles as a BA Executive Club member, just not the Elite bonus, which is pretty much what happens for AAdvantage members today (excepting the TATL routes of course!)

That means, IAH-AMS would earn a 25% bonus for WTP or a 50% for Business. If you have a BAEC Silver card you get a further 25% bonus, if it's Gold it would be 50%.

The big difference with BA is you get only 25% and no Elite qualification below the top couple of fare buckets in Y - I can't remember if it's just B & Y or if H fares earn 100% as well.

I think I said somewhere earlier that the BA system is different - it's all about trading you up to a more flexible ticket and/or premium cabin. It's not designed to reward travellers who cover large numbers of miles on deep, deep discount tickets.

bernardd

The simple answer with BA is don't travel in coach - the best deal are their WT+ fares - more space, power, bonus miles, Elite qualification, and an easy and cheap route to upgrade to Club World (Business). The latter is, IMO, the best part of the deal - IAH-LON I earn enough miles to upgrade in one direction with no co-pay. Can you do that on CO on a discounted ticket?

supermasterphil

So far they have been pretty successful with their strategy. SWISS was a good deal, Jet Blue might turn out as a good deal as well.

I do not agree on them buying every second-tier airline. They did not buy AZ and IB when they had a chance, all though I would not even class them "second-tier" or at least not AZ.

LH has a "problem". Too much cash

Anglo Large Clawed Otter

I plan to assist the BD Forum with a "There's a Tear in My Beer" DO, should Lufty snatch BD and eviscerate our beloved Diamond Club. We have provisional plans for a retreat in the scenic Hill-Country of Texas, mixed with impractical quantities of beer, top-flight BBQ, and high-powered rifles (for shooting at a Lufty seat we'll score from Ebay).