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Originally Posted by MSY-MSP
(Post 9573491)
Not to pick a fight I am currious why you think OnePass is the stronger program? I am not saying that M+ is a better program, I am really curious to understand why you think it is a better program.
I wonder what of the OnePass program would still be a functional program when you add a large number of UA M+'s into the OnePass system. I cannot see EUA surviving in the form that it is with CO. Just too many Elites at the PLT/1K level for it to continue. As a 1K on UA I would say my upgrade sucess with our 500's is good, but not great. If you go to EUA with the numbers of Elites that would be in the combined system, with the relatively small first class cabins. (8/12 F seats on most UA domestic flights, 24 if you get a 757, I assume CO still has the 8/12/16 on their domestics) I guess what I am saying is I cannot see that portion of the OnePass program working with the combined entity. (I don't see it surviving in the DL/NW combined program either) Other than EUA and lower level mileage wise for PLT vs 1K, I am not sure what of OnePass is superior to M+, at least from the FF point view. I think on the other issues the programs are almost equal. (though from what I hear, upgrades on international flights is nigh impossible, where they are easier to get on UA) However, I am welcome to being educated Where OP excels 1) Better upgrade opportunities on most routes (some well known exceptions) for many Elite members - simple, and free 2) OP pioneered forward looking products like Elite Access 3) Top tier at 75K - achievable for most high-volume flyers 4) shared benefits with NW (well, for how long we don't know) Where MP excels 1) Global Services 2) SWUs If UA's elites suddenly flooded CO flights, then yes - we could see a problem. I believe if the merger is done right, and we keep the best parts of UA, enough capacity will remain to spread both elite pools out and avoid clashes over upgrades and award space. CO has 16 BF on int'l 757s and 24 on the 753 for domestic flying. The 73x fleet is 8/12/16/18 and 20 depending on the model. The UA aircraft would need to add some J seats, and likely remove F seats, so the 733 goes to 12, the 757s are 24, the 762s are 24, the 777s will match CO (no F, just J which means more J seats) and the 744s will get oodles of J seats once F is removed. Now - if we actually 'merged' with UA and integrated everything, then I would be with you in thinking we'd have a huge mess on our hands and a lot of very unhappy people at both carriers. |
Out of curiosity, how far out of the running would Emirates be from being much more of a CO partner? On the one hand, I understand that the Middle Eastern megacarriers have been uninterested in joining the conventional airline alliances, but combining a all-widebody international carrier who is expanding rapidly with a relatively strong US carrier who needs international opportunities, it superficially looks like a potentially very profitable relationship. The real question to me is if Emirates can offer the breadth of capacity in Europe and north Asia that would be required.
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Originally Posted by ConciergeMike
(Post 9572436)
Timing: probably right
Location: IAH Name: Continental HQ: Houston UA was not the initiator... United is the big dog in this dance: larger market cap, more RPM's, larger operating revenues, more planes, more employees, more destinations (mainline, please correct me if I am wrong here), more daily flights, more international passengers carried, more frequent flyer program members, more brand value from a global viewpoint, more history, more everything. |
Originally Posted by KD5MDK
(Post 9573899)
Out of curiosity, how far out of the running would Emirates be from being much more of a CO partner? On the one hand, I understand that the Middle Eastern megacarriers have been uninterested in joining the conventional airline alliances, but combining a all-widebody international carrier who is expanding rapidly with a relatively strong US carrier who needs international opportunities, it superficially looks like a potentially very profitable relationship. The real question to me is if Emirates can offer the breadth of capacity in Europe and north Asia that would be required.
But, for CO/UA's purposes, could they just forgo an alliance, altogether? I don't think they would, but even just continuing/strengthening the relationships with EVA, EK, and VS would seem to get them a fair amount of the way there. If they could throw in a relationship with another carrier or three, who knows. |
Originally Posted by J.Edward
(Post 9573167)
For the latter point I'm in 100% agreement, but I do not think p.s. will stay in it's current form.
My guess is we'll see p.s. realigned to a J/Y configuration but I'd be surprised - pleasantly surprised - if p.s. remained in it's existing form. |
1. PCs are for the most part much much much (did I say much?) nicer the Red Carpet Clubs. And they have free drinks too. I hope they keep the PC as the standard. 2. I always liked the recipricol arrangement with NWA, but I guess we can kiss that goodbye. I hope they keep the recipricol with Alaska. 3. And lastly - make sure the lifetime memberships (whether they be old RCC ones from when they were available, or PC memberships). 4. Delta/NWA already stated that they would merge the mileage programs and preserve the miles. I hope CO/UA does the same thing. AS for the comments of OP being better than MP? crack? smoking? OP has some useful features, but OP miles aren't usable for F travel (in general), OP C rewards are priced above *A C. And CO has little award availability, UA has much more. |
Originally Posted by bocastephen
(Post 9573716)
Just my opinions expressed here:
Where OP excels 1) Better upgrade opportunities on most routes (some well known exceptions) for many Elite members - simple, and free 2) OP pioneered forward looking products like Elite Access I would have to disagree with a couple of these. 1) Upgrade opportunities are easier on UA -- both with the certificate-based program and with better domestic capacity. Also, upgrades do not have a copay. 2) While EliteAccess is cool, it's pretty much been matched by everyone at this point. UA pioneered some really cool innovations that have yet to be mached -- p.s. and E+.
Originally Posted by bocastephen
(Post 9573716)
Where MP excels
1) Global Services 2) SWUs 3) E+ 4) Award Availability 5) Customer Service 6) Irregular Ops Handling |
Originally Posted by channa
(Post 9574957)
1) Upgrade opportunities are easier on UA -- both with the certificate-based program and with better domestic capacity. Also, upgrades do not have a copay. I agree with this right now but If CO management is running the show i think they will try to keep the upgrade copay in exchange for keeping E+ |
Originally Posted by TechBoy
(Post 9574338)
...the whole point of p.s. is lost.
Does p.s. have the potential to make money hand over fist? Yes, but only if customers are willing to pay for the "p.". Does p.s. have the potential to loose money hand over fist? Yes, if the relatively higher CASM is not able to be recovered. |
Continental Pre/Post Merger Speculation Discussion Thread
Given the potential effects of the proposed DL/NW merger, including M&A speculation about Continental, I thought it would be best to have one thread instead of many little ones about the evolving airlines industry.
Please continue discussion in this thread and let your moderators know if you think there is a need for another dedication thread on a major topic - such as a big announcement from Smith Street. Also, please be mindful that CO Insider will most likely not be able to provide insight regarding the future due to securities regulations. Related threads: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...536496&page=75 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=812887 |
Originally Posted by RodneyBD
(Post 9574132)
All good guesses, but name will definitely be United.
United is the big dog in this dance: larger market cap, more RPM's, larger operating revenues, more planes, more employees, more destinations (mainline, please correct me if I am wrong here), more daily flights, more international passengers carried, more frequent flyer program members, more brand value from a global viewpoint, more history, more everything. More doesn't mean better - quite often, more means worse. Holiday Inn has 'more' hotels than Westin, but if Starwood bought the HI brand from IC, would it think of renaming the Westin brand Holiday Inn? CO and UA are two different products - CO is the brand with better quality recognition, far more industry awards, and a better opportunity to grow its brand name while leveraging United's routes and infrastructure. It goes without saying, CO also has the more profitable, leaner, and stable operation and a better management team. Assuming any deal is actually announced, which is still nothing more than speculation, get ready to kiss the Gershwin theme goodbye. |
Originally Posted by channa
(Post 9574957)
I would have to disagree with a couple of these.
1) Upgrade opportunities are easier on UA -- both with the certificate-based program and with better domestic capacity. Also, upgrades do not have a copay. 2) While EliteAccess is cool, it's pretty much been matched by everyone at this point. UA pioneered some really cool innovations that have yet to be mached -- p.s. and E+. And some to add here: 3) E+ 4) Award Availability 5) Customer Service 6) Irregular Ops Handling UA international upgrades have a copay of sorts - try to get a J seat while the agents are busy figuring out how to screw the customers waiting on upgrades so they can give the J seats to their fellow employees. It is "Employee Class", right? I concur, but Elite Access if a FFP benefit, while E+ and PS are products. CO had a hybrid J/F product years before any other carrier dreamed of the idea. |
I am merging some of the related threads in to one main thread. This will help stream the forum and discussions.
Thanks! |
Originally Posted by MBM3
(Post 9575518)
I am merging some of the related threads in to one main thread. This will help stream the forum and discussions.
Thanks! |
Originally Posted by bocastephen
(Post 9573716)
Just my opinions expressed here:
Where MP excels 1) Global Services 2) SWUs |
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