Sorry, repeat ? about int'l mileage BF award, 1 leg in coach
Jan 30, 2007, 2:39 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lovely Tahoe City
Programs: UA 1mm Gold. Former 1K and GS.
Posts: 951
Sorry, repeat ? about int'l mileage BF award, 1 leg in coach
Traveling in about 6 hours MNL-GUM-HNL-SFO on award ticket booked using miles at the first class level (ie 60m miles one way).
The MNL-GUM leg didn't clear waitlist and just rec'd e-mail stating that it won't clear.
Will I get the difference in award levels since I'm sitting in coach instead of first? Ie, will I get 30K miles back since a leg didn't clear.
Other pertinent:
GUM-HNL-SFO all in first confirmed (GUM-HNL in BF, HNL-SFO in FC on NW).
Please advise. If I'll get the mileage difference back I won't even bother trying to work something at the airport and take my coach seat.
Thanks, Climmy
The MNL-GUM leg didn't clear waitlist and just rec'd e-mail stating that it won't clear.
Will I get the difference in award levels since I'm sitting in coach instead of first? Ie, will I get 30K miles back since a leg didn't clear.
Other pertinent:
GUM-HNL-SFO all in first confirmed (GUM-HNL in BF, HNL-SFO in FC on NW).
Please advise. If I'll get the mileage difference back I won't even bother trying to work something at the airport and take my coach seat.
Thanks, Climmy
Jan 30, 2007, 2:47 am
#2
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CLE
Programs: CO Gold - 1MM, IC Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,644
Other can give a more extensive answer, but since your email is time sensitive I will pass along the info I have experiences with.
Last month on an Easypass reward ticket, CLE-EWR-AMS, the CLE-EWR (Domestic FC) did not clear. I did not recieve any of my miles back. All other legs of the R/T reward ticket did clear for FC/BF.
Jan 30, 2007, 3:42 am
#3
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 815
Traveling in about 6 hours MNL-GUM-HNL-SFO on award ticket booked using miles at the first class level (ie 60m miles one way).
The MNL-GUM leg didn't clear waitlist and just rec'd e-mail stating that it won't clear.
Will I get the difference in award levels since I'm sitting in coach instead of first? Ie, will I get 30K miles back since a leg didn't clear.
Other pertinent:
GUM-HNL-SFO all in first confirmed (GUM-HNL in BF, HNL-SFO in FC on NW).
Please advise. If I'll get the mileage difference back I won't even bother trying to work something at the airport and take my coach seat.
Thanks, Climmy
The MNL-GUM leg didn't clear waitlist and just rec'd e-mail stating that it won't clear.
Will I get the difference in award levels since I'm sitting in coach instead of first? Ie, will I get 30K miles back since a leg didn't clear.
Other pertinent:
GUM-HNL-SFO all in first confirmed (GUM-HNL in BF, HNL-SFO in FC on NW).
Please advise. If I'll get the mileage difference back I won't even bother trying to work something at the airport and take my coach seat.
Thanks, Climmy
I do remember a post on this not too long ago.
here- http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=610397 specifically post 6
Last edited by kilo; Jan 30, 2007 at 3:59 am Reason: to add link and to correct information
Jan 30, 2007, 12:50 pm
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lovely Tahoe City
Programs: UA 1mm Gold. Former 1K and GS.
Posts: 951
I do remember a post on this not too long ago.
here- http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=610397 specifically post 6
here- http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=610397 specifically post 6
For Posterity, the upgrade did not clear. It is indeed annoying watching the FC cabin fill up with elite upgrades and not have an upgrade clear that was actually bought and paid for, albeit with miles.
I suppose it's worked to my advantage at times in my elite past, but I've had such bad luck with waitlisting it's brutal.
Jan 30, 2007, 1:56 pm
#5
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Clinging to the edifices of a decadent past from the biggest city in America nobody really cares about.
Programs: (ಠ_ಠ)
Posts: 9,077
Wait! You've Got it Wrong!
climmy
If you've bought your ticket solely with miles (e.g. not upgraded a revenue fare) than here's what I think happens:
You've cleared the BF segments of the trip -- most notably GUM-HNL -- and as such, I believe the policy considers you as being in BF and therefore, regardless of the domestic legs (even though GUM-MNL is not a domestic one it is EUA eligible and not marketed as a BF route) you will not receive a mileage refund.
Should the opposite occur (you were able to confirm a FC seat on the MNL-GUM but you could not on the GUM-HNL) than you would be eligible for a partial refund of mileage.
Note: I do not know how your NW HNL-SFO factors into the equation should it not have been able to confirm a seat in the front cabin... however since you did snag a FC seat on this flight it's a mute point.
Remember that you are still eligible to standby at the airport for FC for your MNL-GUM flight as you're technically on a FC ticket regardless of how you paid for it (mileage in this case).
The agent may not understand this but remember you’re not upgrading rather you are a displaced FC customer wanting to standby for the front cabin.
You bought a F/J ticket. You’re a F/J customer and you can still snag that seat on the MNL-GUM sector.
If you've bought your ticket solely with miles (e.g. not upgraded a revenue fare) than here's what I think happens:
You've cleared the BF segments of the trip -- most notably GUM-HNL -- and as such, I believe the policy considers you as being in BF and therefore, regardless of the domestic legs (even though GUM-MNL is not a domestic one it is EUA eligible and not marketed as a BF route) you will not receive a mileage refund.
Should the opposite occur (you were able to confirm a FC seat on the MNL-GUM but you could not on the GUM-HNL) than you would be eligible for a partial refund of mileage.
Note: I do not know how your NW HNL-SFO factors into the equation should it not have been able to confirm a seat in the front cabin... however since you did snag a FC seat on this flight it's a mute point.
Remember that you are still eligible to standby at the airport for FC for your MNL-GUM flight as you're technically on a FC ticket regardless of how you paid for it (mileage in this case).
The agent may not understand this but remember you’re not upgrading rather you are a displaced FC customer wanting to standby for the front cabin.
You bought a F/J ticket. You’re a F/J customer and you can still snag that seat on the MNL-GUM sector.
Last edited by J.Edward; Jan 30, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Jan 30, 2007, 2:25 pm
#6
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Dallas, Texas
Programs: CO OnePass Plat, AF Rouge
Posts: 240
You've cleared the BF segments of the trip -- most notably GUM-HNL -- and as such, I believe the policy considers you as being in BF and therefore, regardless of the domestic legs (even though GUM-MNL is not a domestic one it is EUA eligible and not marketed as a BF route) you will not receive a mileage refund...You bought a F/J ticket. You’re a F/J customer and you can still snag that seat on the MNL-GUM sector.
Jan 30, 2007, 2:41 pm
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DCA
Programs: Kommissar Giga-Posting Direktor, PWP; Fasano Nouveau Aristocrat; CO Platinum; BD Gold; MR Gold
Posts: 18,733
Thanks Kilo. That's the post I was looking for. I just didn't find the time to scroll through Insider's posts to get that one.
For Posterity, the upgrade did not clear. It is indeed annoying watching the FC cabin fill up with elite upgrades and not have an upgrade clear that was actually bought and paid for, albeit with miles.
I suppose it's worked to my advantage at times in my elite past, but I've had such bad luck with waitlisting it's brutal.
For Posterity, the upgrade did not clear. It is indeed annoying watching the FC cabin fill up with elite upgrades and not have an upgrade clear that was actually bought and paid for, albeit with miles.
I suppose it's worked to my advantage at times in my elite past, but I've had such bad luck with waitlisting it's brutal.
Jan 30, 2007, 11:55 pm
#8
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: DL MM/FC/FO; UA PS; AA GLD
Posts: 2,063
This is a post from CO Insider on a thread from last summer. It pretty much confirms what has been said, but in a concise form. It would probably be a good idea to print it and have it at the airport because there still seems to be a lot of confusion about airport standby procedures for award seats that have not cleared in the BF/F cabin prior to airport arrival. The whole thread is pretty good and worth reading. In another post Scott makes the point that the system below only applies to CO awards, not partner awards which happen to be on CO.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...tic+upgrade+BF
Waitlists & Airport Standby for First Class/BusinessFirst Awards
So here's the skinny. When it comes to waitlists, the policies vary depending on the type of award redeemed. Here's a quick summary:
First Class (non-BusinessFirst) Mileage Upgrades
- Waitlists are permitted for Elites only and clear in Elite tier order
- Waitlists will generally clear ahead of courtesy (EUA) upgrades >24 hours before departure
- Waitlists expire at 24 hours before departure, and are not eligible for airport standby; This means when it comes to battlefield upgrades, upgrades are based purely on Elite status and fare class
BusinessFirst Mileage Upgrades
- Waitlists are permitted for everybody, but still clear in Elite tier order
- Waitlists on the non-BusinessFirst segments will generally clear ahead of courtesy (EUA) upgrades >24 hours before departure
- Waitlists expire at 24 hours before departure, and are not eligible for airport standby
First Class/BusinessFirst Standard & EasyPass Awards (IMHO, this is the best deal going)
- Waitlists are permitted for everybody, but still clear in Elite tier order
- Waitlists will generally clear ahead of courtesy (EUA) upgrades >24 hours before departure
- Waitlists are valid up to check-in and are eligible for airport standby; This means when it comes to battlefield upgrades, these customers are to be added to the standby list with the same priority as someone who purchased a FirstClass/BusinessFirst fare (PR1 for those who know our status codes)
I do hope this helps.
__________________
Scott O'Leary
Managing Director, Customer Experience | Continental Airlines
So here's the skinny. When it comes to waitlists, the policies vary depending on the type of award redeemed. Here's a quick summary:
First Class (non-BusinessFirst) Mileage Upgrades
- Waitlists are permitted for Elites only and clear in Elite tier order
- Waitlists will generally clear ahead of courtesy (EUA) upgrades >24 hours before departure
- Waitlists expire at 24 hours before departure, and are not eligible for airport standby; This means when it comes to battlefield upgrades, upgrades are based purely on Elite status and fare class
BusinessFirst Mileage Upgrades
- Waitlists are permitted for everybody, but still clear in Elite tier order
- Waitlists on the non-BusinessFirst segments will generally clear ahead of courtesy (EUA) upgrades >24 hours before departure
- Waitlists expire at 24 hours before departure, and are not eligible for airport standby
First Class/BusinessFirst Standard & EasyPass Awards (IMHO, this is the best deal going)
- Waitlists are permitted for everybody, but still clear in Elite tier order
- Waitlists will generally clear ahead of courtesy (EUA) upgrades >24 hours before departure
- Waitlists are valid up to check-in and are eligible for airport standby; This means when it comes to battlefield upgrades, these customers are to be added to the standby list with the same priority as someone who purchased a FirstClass/BusinessFirst fare (PR1 for those who know our status codes)
I do hope this helps.
__________________
Scott O'Leary
Managing Director, Customer Experience | Continental Airlines
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...tic+upgrade+BF
Jan 31, 2007, 5:14 am
#9
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
You've cleared the BF segments of the trip -- most notably GUM-HNL -- and as such, I believe the policy considers you as being in BF and therefore, regardless of the domestic legs (even though GUM-MNL is not a domestic one it is EUA eligible and not marketed as a BF route) you will not receive a mileage refund.
Actually, you will get your miles back. If, for example, you redeem a Standard roundtrip BusinessFirst reward and you don't clear into BusinessFirst in one direction, we'll automatically re-deposit the difference between the Standard BusinessFirst and Standard Economy reward for that portion of the trip after the flights are flown. You'll even get your miles back if you got First Class on your domestic connecting flights.
Jan 31, 2007, 7:08 am
#10
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 815
I added the emphasis above, bu CO Insider seems very clear on the issue. Climmy should get some miles refunded back. Despite the annoyance of starting the trip in Y, I'd say that Climmy actually got the best deal going with this, as the "important" flights were at the higher class of service, and the redemption level will ultimately be the lower.
(It may well be that the assumption is wrong i.e. International Biz may be considered as similar to BF).
Last edited by kilo; Jan 31, 2007 at 7:14 am
Jan 31, 2007, 10:27 am
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lovely Tahoe City
Programs: UA 1mm Gold. Former 1K and GS.
Posts: 951
Thanks for all the posts everybody. Indeed, the important BF legs cleared (at booking), but the mnl-gum portion never did.
There were definately elite upgrades as they told me at check in the all the remaining elites on the flight were already upgraded at check-in. Actually, the flight went out with an open seat up front but they wouldn't put me in it. They said that since I was on a mileage ticket that I couldn't be eligible for an elite upgrade. That's when I decided to drop the whole thing altogether.
I couldn't have anyway since I was traveling with my wife so I didn't force the issue.
Compounding the problem was the fact that CO contracts an outside agency in MNL so there really was little point to working rules and so forth into the equation.
C'est la vie.
There were definately elite upgrades as they told me at check in the all the remaining elites on the flight were already upgraded at check-in. Actually, the flight went out with an open seat up front but they wouldn't put me in it. They said that since I was on a mileage ticket that I couldn't be eligible for an elite upgrade. That's when I decided to drop the whole thing altogether.
I couldn't have anyway since I was traveling with my wife so I didn't force the issue.
Compounding the problem was the fact that CO contracts an outside agency in MNL so there really was little point to working rules and so forth into the equation.
C'est la vie.
Jan 31, 2007, 10:37 am
#12
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
The assumption is that it's the BF segments that determine whether a miles refund should be given. Hence J.Edward contended that since MNL-GUM ( the segment that failed to clear) is not a BF route that he will not get any miles back.
(It may well be that the assumption is wrong i.e. International Biz may be considered as similar to BF).
(It may well be that the assumption is wrong i.e. International Biz may be considered as similar to BF).
Jan 31, 2007, 10:53 am
#13
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Clinging to the edifices of a decadent past from the biggest city in America nobody really cares about.
Programs: (ಠ_ಠ)
Posts: 9,077
Not only were you eligible for that seat, you should have cleared into any open FC seat before any elites.
I still maintain you should not get a refund if you did not get upgraded into a FC seat (for the 'quasi' domestic portion of MNL-GUM) but due to agent error you were not reseated in FC. Point is, I'd call in, raise hell and expect a refund for the one/way mileage upgrade amount for the MNL-GUM sector on the basis of agent ignorance.
As for it being an outstation…well life is hard. I don’t give a ratsass who CO contracts out their work to but I sure as hell am going to hold any agent wearing a CO uniform up to the same standard…regardless of who signs their paycheck.
Completely unacceptable and very disappointing on CO’s part.
Climmy, if you do call in and ask for a partial mileage refund please let us know what happens.
Last edited by J.Edward; Jan 31, 2007 at 11:25 am Reason: hindsight
Jan 31, 2007, 3:49 pm
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DCA
Programs: Kommissar Giga-Posting Direktor, PWP; Fasano Nouveau Aristocrat; CO Platinum; BD Gold; MR Gold
Posts: 18,733
There were definately elite upgrades as they told me at check in the all the remaining elites on the flight were already upgraded at check-in. Actually, the flight went out with an open seat up front but they wouldn't put me in it. They said that since I was on a mileage ticket that I couldn't be eligible for an elite upgrade. That's when I decided to drop the whole thing altogether.
Feb 17, 2008, 12:03 am
#15
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Programs: UA 1K, AA Lifetime Platinum, DL Platinum, Honors Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz Platinum
Posts: 7,969
There were definately elite upgrades as they told me at check in the all the remaining elites on the flight were already upgraded at check-in. Actually, the flight went out with an open seat up front but they wouldn't put me in it. They said that since I was on a mileage ticket that I couldn't be eligible for an elite upgrade. That's when I decided to drop the whole thing altogether.
What you were entitled to was to be on the standby list for first class. You held a first class ticket and were able to confirm only in coach. Therefore, you should have been eligible to standby for first class seating, and your priority would have been ahead of anyone wanting to upgrade to first via elite status.