Noticing Changes
 

Even though I am Plat, and my wife is Gold, I haven't flown CO since May, having given up on upgrades, and just choosing to buy my seats in F or C, depending on carrier and destination. In this case, we were headed to West Palm, taking our dog as baggage, but lines like AirTran, Spirit, and USAirways don't take pets outside the cabin. I bought 2 one way First (A) seats, at $330 each, not a bad price, and it also meant avoiding the upgrade dance at the gate. Flight left at 6:30 AM, and the dog had to travel via Quick Pak cargo, the office for which opens at 5 AM on Saturday (our travel day). I arrive at Newark just before 5. I know where the office is, but only how to get to it by car. This time, I am actually in the terminal. Looking for directions, I can't find any CO supervisory people, and muddle around, asking bag handlers and TSA types. Turns out that not all elevators (which we needed, as the dog was in a shipping crate, and required a pushcart) stop on each floor. Finally get there, but its now 5:20 AM. Fortunately, nobody ahead of us. Even so, it takes nearly 20 minutes, including requiring me to be photographed. Unlike other carriers, CO charges for pets based on weight and volume, including the travel crate. $200 later, I calculate he has been charged more than most people in Coach (the dog only weighs 22 lbs.). Now, it's off to the "elite bag check", where we find ourselves about number 40 in an ever increasing line. How many elites can there be, I wonder? By now, it's 40 minutes to take off. I desperately look for a Redcoat (supervisor) for help to make the flight. None to be found. I make my appeal to some security guy who is watching the line. He says all they have is a lead agent, but that he will help (he never does). We finally make it to the kiosk, punch in the required info, but no bag tag prints. At that point, I interrupt an agent, who is helping someone next to us, asking for help, as we may miss our flight. She looks at me, and says "you are supposed to be here 2 hours early". I lose it, tell her we've been there nearly that long, show her that we have refundable tickets, and tell her, if we miss the flight we will rebook another airline, even if it means a stop. She decides to be helpful, says she will take care of the bag, including TSA, and we head to security, where somehow, we get through, and make the flight with ten minutes to spare. After boarding, I tell the FA we have a dog, and ask for confirmation he's on. The door closes. She comes over and says they have no confirmation, but the Captain has told her they will hand any paper work to him through the cockpit window. She says he will stay at the jetway, in case we need to get off if the animal didn't make it. My mind goes back to the speech we got about "special handling" as being the reason why transport costs for pets are more on CO. Finally, the OK..he's on. We take off, and I discover that the "airline who always feeds you at mealtimes", has dumped the hot breakfast for a roll and some fruit, in F. That's a change from a few months ago. So, what have I learned? Firstly, they have apparently gotten rid of many supervisors in the terminal. That's not useful. Secondly,the help is developing an attitude, which they use to rationalize problems, by telling you how much better the airline is than its competitors..a dangerous arrogance to allow to develop at the point of customer contact. Nest, in flight service has been reduced, to where I personally didn't notice it being materially different from that of Spirit (and other discounters), who will sell you RT premium class for the price of one way on CO, in many markets. Finally being top tier, as well as having purchased full fare, F (A) class tickets, had no effect on our particular needs on that trip. Nobody cared. If you can't, or won't execute the benefits of a loyalty program, dump it. Frankly, the whole experience was both illuminating, and disappointing. Apparently convinced they are unassailable, there seems to be a contest to see how much they can reduce services until they hurt the place. Based on what I observed, in the context of not flying them for a few months, they are working hard to get that point.

Writing is war. Commas are the enemy.

Wow. :rolleyes:

Nice Analysis - My Own CO Trip Report
 

deelmakur,
Enjoyed your commentary. I would have to agree, but who else can you go too?

That is disappointing to learn that the EWR PBI F breakfast has been reduced, and that EWR could care less that you actually bought an F ticket. One of the reasons I left CO (I was Plat at one point) was due to lackluster supvs at EWR, and due to the 1800-WEDon'tCare lines lack of understanding.

When I left CO I first jumped ship to US, and now I'm mainly a UA flyer.

I did get a status match to Plat, so this weekend I took a BOS to IAH trip on CO.

My upgrade as Plat only cleared on the day of departure for a Friday mid morning flight. Then I had to change the ticket to fly out Sat morning, and my upgrade again cleared the morning of the flight but that is more understandable since it was a last minute change. Still got an aisle seat, and enjoyed hot towel service, nuts (not warm), soup, a hot roll, shrimp salad, a chocolate candy, and then a cookie close to landing. I would give the food a little bit better grade than what you might get on a similar United flight, no soup to be had on a regular United midcon flight.

The return flight, an IAH to BOS on a Sunday night, my upgrade never cleared in advance. Again I'm Plat, what's going on? There were several F seats that got allocated to others, I'm assuming people that paid higher fares. My fare was in I class and about $235, of which I used a $200 CO bump voucher :), so I really can't complain too much. Sstill I don't like that fare class plays in to it besides status but I can imagine a high roller spender would feel differently. All I can say is it is very transactional based as opposed to relationship based.

I check in probably 22 hours before the flight, and I have a sequence number under 11, and I am placed on standby for F. F at this point is 0'd out in the computer on all Sunday flights.

I get to the gate and they announce F has checked in full, but I wait in the gate area since just because someone is checked in it doesn't mean they actually will board. About 10 mins before departure I go up to the desk, and they advise indeed they are watiing for 1 F class pax who has not boarded, but the rest have boarded. The agent checks, and says however that there are, it sounded like, at least 2-3 people ahead of me for this one possible F class seat. The g/a asks me my status, and I advise CO Platinum, and seems confused that I am not at the top of the list, but then says as far as they know the others would be Platinums who paid more for their tickets. I thank the g/a and go back to my coach seat in the 20's. Again, I don't like this business of doing it by fare paid on that one transaction? I wonder if their computers have put all elite pax who paid say Y or B fares ahead of me even though I'm plat?

I wonder what will CO serve for "snack" on this dinner time flight in economy? I was pleasantly surprised to see a personal cheese pizza which was pretty good, an average to not so great salad, and M&M's. I really have to give it to CO for serving coach class customers a hot meal instead of a $5 box of junk food or cold sandwich like all the other big six carriers do:
AA: Serves buy on board food;
DL: Serves perhaps best variety of free snacks and possibly some buy on board food;
NW: Serves buy on board snack boxes;
US: Serves buy on board food;
UA: Serves buy on board food;
CO: Serves a hot meal even for customers in the back of coach!

I don't know why CO does not advertise this more. The only thing I can think of is they want to protect themselves in case they go the way of the other 5 of their big brothers and sisters. But they could easily have advertisements about their hot meals, while their brothers and sisters in the industry will justt sell you a $5 or $10 cold snack or maybe if you are lucky sandwich.

I also enjoyed the Margaritas that CO offers, while being cramped in their coach. The flight was full, and it was extremely cramped in coach which is different than United's roomy Economy Plus.

In short I will continue to stay with United as main airline (I especially like the channel 9 where you can listen to ATC), but I was impressed with CO's food service. Though it sounds like food service has really declined on shorter flights, like NYC to Florida. However, I was disappointed that as a Platinum my upgrades were not a sure bet, and that one randomly didn't come through and must have been given to someone of who knows what status that paid more on this particular flight. I am more used to when you are at the top level to getting upgraded nearly all the time, and it was strange too even the flight that cleared they held back seats until the very last day. All I can say it I would hate to be Silver :).

I wonder if CO, other than say UA P.S., has the best domestic food? And if so they do deserve our compliments on that aspect of their product.

The answer is that your expectations are off. It sounds like you flew CO as Plat some years ago. Upgrade rates have been dropping drastically for everybody, even Plats on high fares, and there are plenty of Plats reporting low upgrade rates. If you want to travel in front with a high degree of certainty, pay for first. If you're happy to be upgraded sometimes, buy the cheapo coach fare (I class is pretty low, much of the time this is the lowest O/D fare offered on BOS-IAH) and chance it. Or try another carrier (as a US 1 you presumably have an excellent upgrade rate; the problem is that you have to fly US to get it).

I managed 3/17 upgrades on CO as Gold this year, all of them on BOS-IAH, so actually this is not such a bad route - if, like me, you are prepared to fly at 9am on January 1, or 11am on Tuesdays...

(And I'm ignoring the OP also... :rolleyes: )

Hey guys. I took my first flight on CO in a Viscount, when I got finished with basic in the AIr National Guard in San Antonio. It was 1961. I joined the Presidents Club when it was free, and by invitation only, in 1970. The carrier didn't fly east of Chicago. I was on the inaugural fight to Newark (from Denver), that opened up the east. I flew them through 2 bankruptcies, and all the pain that came with combining People, Eastern, NY Air, the old Frontier, Britt, etc. For my trouble, I got Infinite Elite. I know this airline a lot better than most. It pains me to see them walk away from loyalty programs, and to reduce the product. Bethune and Bonderman brought the place back from the dead. It troubles me to see employees slipping back into complacency. Discount carrriers can do all that bad stuff, and get away with it. Customers have low expectation. A carrier like CO can't. A perfect example of what I am talking about is JetBlue. They have one of the lowest complaint rates, yet are habitually late, thanks to the JFK hub. Meantime, major carriers, like CO, get them all the time. If you get to the point where an airline doesn't care what your patronage is, or has been, regardless of status in their loyalty program, or your willingness to buy high yield tickets, that's a trouble spot.

Just Curious On Exactly What's Changed
 

I'm just curious what is different now than say 6-8 years ago when I was a CO Plat and nearly all the time got upgraded. Either:
1. In 2006 there are significantly more elites at all the levels, particular Platinum, than say 10 years ago? Although I would figure during the .com bubble there would be a lot of Plats?
2. CO has seriously changed the system to give much broader preference for upgrade based on fare paid? I jumped ship just as EUA was coming in to being, and I remember it wasn't popular, and it kind of took away the strategy part of the game, and it all became random. It takes the control away from the flyer more.

I am just curious if it is more 1 or 2 or something else? Does anyone even know how EUA works or to what extent it gives preference to higher fares?

As a US1 I would be like 98% upgraded. I could probably count on one hand flying as a US1 the times I would ride in back.

# 2 is certainly a factor, but it doesn't affect the number of seats available for upgrades; it only changes who gets those seats. The real difference is the advent of DL's Simplifares and the drastic lowering of paid F prices. CO sells the seats up front now instead of giving them to elites.

#1 is pretty irrelevant given the power of the above two factors.

#1 - The number of elites in CO is about the same, per CO. With the 50% EQM for lower priced tickets not purchased on co.com - it is harder for a business traveler to earn CO elite status - hence the numbers are not growing. CO does not want to grow the number of elites - to allow for some benefits.

#2 - It is not just the simplified DL pricing or lower FC seats. CO.com will many times assign Y or even Z or A to a certain segment of a coach itinerary. For example, a couple of weeks ago CO - if you fare'd a flight from say DCA-EWR-SRQ or FLL or PBI for outbound on Dec. 21-22, the segment from EWR to Florida would either come out in Y or A fare - the total being about $500 RT for the holiday week (other segments in lower categories). If you specified you wanted a F ticket - the fare was over $1K. But specifying coach - the cheapest would include either A or instant upgrade for Elite Y fare in the most significant segment.

Hence - CO was filling up F on those flights from EWR to Florida - on Xmas weekend - by simply making that segment A or Y - for a fare that was basically the cheapest fare for a requested coach ticket.

Originally Posted by deelmakur
deelmakur, forgive me for reposting you previous two comments but without spacing it makes for hard reading.

I think there are four lessions to be learned from this experience.

1) Check in the human bags FIRST. That way as soon as the dog was done, you'd be ready to roll.

2) If it is a requirement, suggestion etc. to be there two hours early, don't take a flight 1 :30 after they open. Or get there BEFORE they open at 5am. Not begin looking for it. Although, I agree you should have made the plane easily, and they should perhaps check your bag when you check the dog (I'll suggest it to CO). You did kind of back yourself into a time corner on this one. You only allowed 1 1/2 for a bunch of complicated stuff.

3) Use the Kioski to check bags it's much faster than the elite line.

4) NEVER check bags. If it doesn't go in a carry on... you don't need it. My number one rule.

Tiny font size also makes for hard reading, especially if you are over 30.

Duplicate -deleted

Cigar, I'm pretty good at this game, and so's my dog, who has made 4 transcons to Seattle from EWR, so far this year. You are better off not checking bags first, with a pet, since (a) if the pet doesn't go for some reason, neither do I, and (b) that bull s**t Quick Pak office is like the Mad Hatter's Tea Party. You need to allow for delays there, so itr makes sense to go there first.

Next point. I knew the QP office didn't open until 5AM, and booked a 7AM departure. For some reason, although it operates Sunday through Friday at 7AM, CO 1554 to PBI, leaves at 6:30 AM on Saturday, our day of travel, in this instance. I was only advised of that a few weeks ago.

Lastly, we rarely check a bag, but my wife and I were going to our Florida home for the next 7 months, and had shipped what we don't keep there, but a few things had to be carried, and as long as we had to wait for the dog, it didn't matter.

I have my own business, and travel well over a hundred thousand miles a year. While it continually gets tougher, and you can't find many airports more unuser friendly than Newark, it just seems all these airline guys are in a feeding frenzy to cut everything they can think of. Continental, of late, has risen above that noise, and it's sad to see it going the other way.

FWIW, CO fully recongizes that the ground staff customer service at Newark is piss-poor (and has recognized this for over 10yrs), but there's nothing they can do about it except continue to lessen the need to interact with EWR ground staff by automating the h*ll out of that hub.

The only ways a Gold or Silver elite would have been ahead of you on the upgrade list would have been if they had purchased a full Y ticket or were waitlisted on a mileage upgrade. H, K, B, N, O, etc. fares, while earning 100% EQMs, do not allow you to jump ahead of higher-level elites in the upgrade queue.

And, if the 2-3 people ahead of you on the upgrade list are all Platinums, why would you assume that you should be ahead of them? CO basically uses fare class a method for ordering the upgrade process within elite levels, and then uses things like check-in and ticket purchase times for breaking a tie within an elite level. But it would be extremely rare that a Gold or Silver would be ahead of a Platinum on the upgrade list, and in those cases it would mostly be due to that Gold or Silver purchasing a full Y fare or using miles to waitlist for an upgrade.

Odds are the passengers ahead of you were Platinums on higher fares. I is a very discounted fare class.

I thought I might be very high on the list because I checked in about 22 hours before the flight with OLCI. Maybe fare paid trumps check in time. Personally I prefer when there is some strategy you can use like check 9in 24 hours early but I see why CO would do it by fare paid...except maybe it makes more sense to do it by customer overall revenue instead of the one fare they paid on that one ticket.

Fare paid does trump time of checkin and has for years now.

As for total revenue, It's all been discussed before and this is how they measure it: by what you paid on this flight. Basically what you're saying is that you wish the upgrade process were tailored such that you were upgraded on this flight, and in a larger sense, every flight you take. I think the upgrade process as it is now is a pretty reasonable way of implementing CO's goals and rewarding those most valuable to CO. Sorry you weren't upgraded.

Would YOU have an attitude if you were called the help ?

^ ^ ^

Okay. I'm going to pick at you. IF you knew for a "few weeks" ... that really is no excuse to cut it close. You should have allowed more time.
Having said that. I do agree that things are not functioning as well as in the past. But that is very widespread. Everybody cut, and now the planes are full. I had to fly AA to london this week. No international online check in, No international Kiosk check in... so I get to the airport and the first class line has 4 people in it. It takes AA over an hour to get to me. Two people need re routes. Do they EVER pull from my line to one of the THREE people helping coach... Of course not! :mad:
There is plenty of stupidity going around.
But, I do think they ought to be able to check your bags, when you check your dog. I am going to suggest it. There is no good reason why that wouldn't work. Presumibly, the TSA has to check Fido's cage out for a explosive. Why not check owners bag at the same time?

Cigar, your point about TSA checking the dog cage is interesting. When you ship via QP, they do NOT. The guy just had me stand in front of a camera, and took a photo. The old procedure required we go to the CO cargo facility at the north end of the field, and they would process animals there, which is how we got in the habit of doing that first.

I use Alaska from EWR to SEA. They are no longer handled by CO (Air Canada does it now). The procedure is more in line with standard practice at most airports. You bring the dog to the check in counter, fill out some brief paper work, pay the flat charge, and then you accompany the pet to a TSA station on the floor, where they have you take the pet out, while they examine the carrier. It takes a few minutes, and since you are doing bags at the same time, it is a one stop shop.

Continental does a nice job with pets, but it is a revenue item, and unlike most airlines, they do not flat rate. You pay by weight and volume, which makes them twice as expensive as most other carriers. As part of that charade, they claim the pets receive special handling, but I have never observed anyone handling them, except regular ramp workers.

Paying twice as much, for a process which takes twice as long to perform, and appears to be less stringent, is not, in my mind, useful in trying to streamline the airport check in experience.

Arguing over whether I need to arrive at a domestic airport at 4:30AM for a 6:30AM flight on a Saturday, when I (a) know where I am going, (b) have full fare first class tickets, and (c) have top tier OP status, is a zero sum game. I can't win that, but the facts are what they are. I was led to believe the QP office had moved (by a cargo rep in Houston, when I called to reconfirm the pet reservation), could not find anyone capable of putting a full sentence together, to direct me within the C Terminal, and took lip from an agent for asking for some help. Add to that, a lousy meal.

I am trying to find something redeeming in that experience, but disappointng is the only descriptive term I can come up with.

I have friends who live in other countries where more chaotic customer service is more the norm, and they survive through empathy and charm. These aren't my long suits, but I have long operated from the assumption that NYC is a third-world country. I'm flying something like 100K miles out of EWR this year, and I haven't had any bad experiences, and I have had various notably helpful interactions.

The Beatles' last line of lyrics says it all: In the end the love you take is equal to the love you make.

"Quick Pak office is like the Mad Hatter's Tea Party."

I wish I could come up with as good a characterization! I visited the QP office in EWR twice, as a scouting expedition for future shipment of 2 cats (<10 pds each) to our part time home north of Tampa (if they ever get it built). My impression is one of mass chaos. As a result, the cats will probably travel with us as ' cabin baggage'.


"You bring the dog to the check in counter, fill out some brief paper work, pay the flat charge, and then you accompany the pet to a TSA station on the floor, where they have you take the pet out, while they examine the carrier"

I'm curious how this works for a cat. Dogs can be pretty docile, but taking a cat out of the cage can be a risk to your life and limb, not to mention a squirming, frightened cat getting loose and then trying to catch the frightened cat in a terminal, as he weaves between passengers, with my wife in hot pursuit:). Similarly, with those 'puffer machines' and the noise they make. I can only see my cats going crazy if subjected to the noise/air if being held in one's arms, and the attendant possibility of him/her getting loose, followed by the same crazed attempt to recapture the frighetend animal. Do they keep butterfly nets nearby, just in case. :)

Finally, at least at Newark, the 'special treatment' the animals get includes their own van ride to the plane. Next time there, look for a white van with decals/pcitures of cats/dogs all over it making a mad dash for the plane, just before takeoff.

I seem to have gotten in trouble for using the word "help" to describe employees in the terminal, I apologize for my political incorrectness. There was a time when you could have the pleasure of the type of attitude I described, being delivered by the "employee owners" at United, "cast members" at Song/Delta, and various other types, from associates to "neighbors". A secretary is now an assistant (personally, I liked typing wench). Presumably, a garbage person is a waste technician, a plumber is just a crook (couldn't resist :D) , etc. You definitely showed me, but to complete the drill, you will have to convince every newspaper in America to change the name of its principal section on jobs to something other than "Help Wanted". We can change the terminology, but it won't change the fact that a number of the line employees at CO, who deal directly with customers, are developing attitudes of the kind that will sink a good business.

Slightly off subject, but has to deal with the CO upgrades and some of the less enticing changes that we have all seen lately. I have stoped crediting CO flights to my OnePass account several months ago when i hit 80K EQMs. All ST flights since then have been credited to my FB account since it seems that I get better treatment on AF/KLM as an FB elite vs. a CO elite. Last month I found myself about 7 segments short of getting FB PLAT, so I decided to find a cheap fare on any ST memeber and go for the segments. I found a NW trip that would give me 5 segments for under $100 and booked it. This morning when I checked my e-mail, I found out that I have been upgraded on all 5 segments. On one flight on NW, I received the same number of EUAs that I received on CO ALL YEAR LONG; and I am not even a NW elite.

CO seems to be doing a good job in keeping its planes full. There is nothing wrong with that, however it seems that those of us that have flown with them in the good and bad times are being left out. When I was typing this I had to go back and count the flights when I got EUAs on CO while I had to count the flights when I did not get EUAs on AA. I think that says something about which airline is looking out for their elites.

Transactions Vs. Relationships
 

I was not particularly saying that I should have been upgraded, although of course I would have preferred that outcome. However, CO and the others, do seem to treat customers on a transactional basis. Hence them looking at what you paid on this particular ticket, instead of say the total revenue you have brought to CO in the long term. It is curious too that people seem to have such better lukc with NW upgrades. Why would NW apparently have such a more generous upgrade policy, or conversely not be selling as many revenue F seats? Personally my NW upgrades typically clear days ahead of schedule as opposed to CO which usually clear 0-1 days before the flight even as Platinum. And even though the op had top status and bought an expensive ticket he was treated kind of like dirt anyway by CO at EWR with no special elite or VIP handling, etc. He would have probably been nearly as well served to buy a ticket on B6 or WN for $75 to Florida :).

My 2 cents.

NW uses upgrades as a strategy for FFers. Since you have flown NW in business, you realize that not too many people would actually pay for NW business. CO, on the other hand, has an excellent business class and likes it when consumer actually pay for it. So, I would rather have a CO upgrade than a NW upgrade; but that is comparing apples and oranges. Different stratgies towards making profits.

Note: NW is in bankruptcy and CO isn't.

CO has been in bankruptcy court twice, I think this is the first time for NW. The only legacy airline that has never declared bankruptcy is AA.

Ok then, so you are "the help", s/he is "the help" and I'm "the help". I believe we all know we are "the help"; but is it really necessary to make a person feel like "the help"?

I believe the poster is pointing out a simple, yet apparently elusive, tactic used in dealing with "the help"; treat them as you want to be treated. ;)

Not to get off message, but where did it say I wasn't nice to someone? I didn't even have the opportunity to be unpleasant, if I had been so inclined. The post dealt with the fact that there weren't any senior employees around the elite check in area at a main hub, to assist (or be rude to). When I finally asked for help from a gate agent, the response began with an admonition from the employee, blaming me for not being early enough, which was not accurate. If that sort of "customer is always wrong" approach is what passes for customer service, the line is headed for trouble.

I have to say that the OP has some good points about the current status of CO. No one can deny that they are a very "what have you done for me lately" airline when compared to the other legacy carriers (no lifetime elite for x MM miles flown as a great example).

And whatever happened to the whole idea of buying a premium ticket for the entire experience, not just a wider seat with free alcohol? I think those were the burried messages of the first two posters. I could be wrong, though...

CLG

You are correct. OnePass is virtually useless, which is probably as it should be, if the product is priced right, and the capacity balanced, both of which I believe are. That said, they have to stop treating paying customers like they are freebies. I got tired of laying out nearly $700 for tickets on my semi weekly Florida winter commute, and driving an hour to Newark, when AirTran began nonstop White Plains to Palm Beach for nearly $300 less, offering a Business Class seat that will match anything on a domestic CO aircraft. I have had a similar experience with Spirit, out of LGA to FLL. At the current time, there is no difference, other than avoiding the chaos of the Newark hub, with everything practically self service. This is not a gas station, or a bank, where the customer has been transitioned to doing it by themselves. It's a service business, so how about some?