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BF soon to be 2nd Class. DL announces new lie-flat BE seats.

BF soon to be 2nd Class. DL announces new lie-flat BE seats.

 
Old Oct 10, 06, 9:12 am
  #1  
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BF soon to be 2nd Class. DL announces new lie-flat BE seats.

This is still a few years away, so it gives CO some time to introduce a new product. I can only hope an annoucement comes when the 2 new 777's come into the fleet late next year. That would put them ahead of the curve, just "delayed" on the announcement.

Excerpts from: http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/061010/106495.html

-- A reclining seat that adjusts to multiple comfortable
positions, including a completely flat surface offering
travelers a 6-foot 3-inch bed;
-- A privacy screen incorporating pull out meal table,
fold-out video monitor, integrated footrest and personal
stowage compartment for bags, shoes or blankets; and
-- Immediate access to the aisle so customers don't have to
disturb another passenger when exiting their seat
Economy class to get a refresh as well:

Customers flying in economy class on Delta's newly reconfigured 767-400 and 777-200 aircraft will catch a glimpse of the future of Delta's on-board entertainment with award-winning, on-demand entertainment at every seat as featured in the BusinessElite cabin and select long-haul domestic flights in the United States. On all Delta international flights, customers in economy class will enjoy Delta's new all-leather seats, enhanced food offerings, a complimentary cocktail with each meal, and soon a complimentary amenity kit featuring eye shades and ear plugs for more personal comfort and privacy.

Last edited by Lemurs; Oct 10, 06 at 9:27 am Reason: started with "to go", went to change it to "away", ended up with "ago"...exact opposite meaning. *sigh*
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Old Oct 10, 06, 9:17 am
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On its 767 aircraft DL has 2-2-2 versus CO's 2-1-2, but then DL has a better pitch - which makes the lay flat bed less of a seat loss.

CO would be impacted more with its less pitch but wider seat. For travel to Europe - I would rather have the CO wider seat. For travel to Asia - the lay flat might be a better option.
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Old Oct 10, 06, 9:27 am
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Originally Posted by cova
On its 767 aircraft DL has 2-2-2 versus CO's 2-1-2, but then DL has a better pitch - which makes the lay flat bed less of a seat loss.

CO would be impacted more with its less pitch but wider seat. For travel to Europe - I would rather have the CO wider seat. For travel to Asia - the lay flat might be a better option.
I'm not really sure what you're talking about. The press release says "The airline also expects to offer a lie-flat option on its 767 aircraft." Very vague ("option"???), no mention of seat width or configuration, so no point in comparing this mystery seat to CO's current 767 product.

But in any event, this definitely raises the bar for CO, let's hope that they respond in kind. Their current hard product will be obsolete before you know it.
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Old Oct 10, 06, 9:33 am
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Originally Posted by ijgordon
But in any event, this definitely raises the bar for CO, let's hope that they respond in kind. Their current hard product will be obsolete before you know it.
Spot on.

With any luck this will pressure CO to launch a new J/Y product with the 787 and hopefully retrofit the other long-haul equipment.

Any pics?

[edited to add]Pics Here

Last edited by J.Edward; Oct 10, 06 at 9:38 am
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Old Oct 10, 06, 9:37 am
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Originally Posted by J.Edward
Spot on.

With any luck this will pressure CO to launch a new J/Y product with the 787 and hopefully retrofit the other long-haul equipment.

Any pics?
Delta's press release has two pictures. It's essentially the Air Canada lie-flat seat in Delta colors. http://media.delta.com/article_displ...ticle_id=10405

Here's hoping CO doesn't go for a simple derivative and instead finds a partner with a really innovative design. BTW, general estimates are that DL is losing 5-7 seats from it's J cabin on the 777's with these new seats. That's got to make CO uncomfortable just thinking about it. Less of an impact on the 767's because CO already goes for a generous 2-1-2.
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Old Oct 10, 06, 9:39 am
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Originally Posted by J.Edward
Spot on.

With any luck this will pressure CO to launch a new J/Y product with the 787 and hopefully retrofit the other long-haul equipment.

Any pics?
This definitely raises the bar, and I have no doubt that CO will respond in kind. The question is whether they will roll out a new J product that will be comparable to the likes of the new BE or whether they will introduce a seat that is better, maintaining BF's position as the best J class of any US carrier. In addition, UA eventually will introduce a new C class that has not yet been developed or announced (correct?), and next generation BF will have to be equal to or greater than that new product.
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Old Oct 10, 06, 9:43 am
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We also need to remember that CO referenced an extremely long lead time to getting approval for any new seat design. This may be in progress as we speak or they may just use a design that has already been approved.

Innovation might be great, I just dont know if it can happen when the new T7s are delivered.
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Old Oct 10, 06, 9:56 am
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Originally Posted by CO 1E
This definitely raises the bar, and I have no doubt that CO will respond in kind. The question is whether they will roll out a new J product that will be comparable to the likes of the new BE or whether they will introduce a seat that is better, maintaining BF's position as the best J class of any US carrier. In addition, UA eventually will introduce a new C class that has not yet been developed or announced (correct?), and next generation BF will have to be equal to or greater than that new product.
Well said. To the best of my knowledge, UA has said they're developing a new C product but todate nothing has been released.

Lemurs: you beat me to the link!
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Old Oct 10, 06, 10:00 am
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Originally Posted by J.Edward
Well said. To the best of my knowledge, UA has said they're developing a new C product but todate nothing has been released.

Lemurs: you beat me to the link!
Incidentally, what is AA doing w/r/t its new J? Is the new 767 J class seat reflective of the type of seat that eventually will go into the 777s? If so, CO should not have much trouble making BF compete against that product.
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Old Oct 10, 06, 10:03 am
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Originally Posted by MBM3
We also need to remember that CO referenced an extremely long lead time to getting approval for any new seat design. This may be in progress as we speak or they may just use a design that has already been approved.

Innovation might be great, I just dont know if it can happen when the new T7s are delivered.
I suspect you're right. The obvious goalpost is 787 introduction in early 2009. The 787 is going to be a big deal for CO. They'll be the 2nd domestic operator of the type. (I am assuming that NW did not give up it's 2008 delivery slots, and will not fold before they get delivered.)

It's going to be a big event for CO, parties and press releases. They're going to inaugurate new service with it, make it the flagship of the fleet, have a big delivery party for the first one, etc. It's the obvious place to showcase your cutting-edge new J and Y products that will leapfrog you over DL, UA, NW, AA...who all will have had their refreshes on the market for a little bit of time already. (This is all me speculating btw, but it makes sense given how the industry treats these kinds of events typically. New widebodies are big deals.)

It just sucks that it's another 2.5 years away.
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Old Oct 10, 06, 10:07 am
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Given that foreign carriers have had new flat seats for years now, isn't CO already 2nd class?
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Old Oct 10, 06, 10:13 am
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Originally Posted by channa
Given that foreign carriers have had new flat seats for years now, isn't CO already 2nd class?
It is already second class in that regard, but not vis-a-vis US carriers.
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Old Oct 10, 06, 10:56 am
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Delta continues to raise the bar. So far, to my knowledge, no US carrier matched their pledge of improved international economy service (food, drinks, amenities, etc.).

We can debate where they are getting the money to do all these fancy things, but the fact remains - DL's competitors, CO included, have no choice but to keep up or get left behind, especially given DL's higher capacity to Europe, the JFK gateway and their use of widebodies over 757s to some shared markets.

I hope CO has something good up its sleeve for the 787s, which will be followed by the new product being deployed in the 777s and 764s. Squeezing 9 abreast on the 787s in coach while using the same hardback 17.2" wide seats found on the 753 will not be a good thing for the product.
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Old Oct 10, 06, 11:12 am
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CO's new BF

I'm sure CO will roll-out a new BF product when the 787's come on-line.
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Old Oct 10, 06, 11:22 am
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Originally Posted by ijgordon
I'm not really sure what you're talking about. The press release says "The airline also expects to offer a lie-flat option on its 767 aircraft." Very vague ("option"???), no mention of seat width or configuration, so no point in comparing this mystery seat to CO's current 767 product.

.
1. DL has 60" pitch, CO has 55" pitch. If you have to take out seats to provide a 75" pitch - DL does not need to take out as many seats.

2. DL has 2-2-2 versus CO 2-1-2, hence DL provides one more seat per row.
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