NW Orders 72 RJ's... WITH F
Oct 9, 2006, 1:02 pm
#16
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I agree that the current ERJ fleet cannot turn a profit simply by adding a first class cabin, but consider that every other major operates (or has on order) a regional A/C with at least 69 seats and you've got to imagine it's only going to be a matter of time before CO does the same...
AA CR7
AS CR7, DH4
DL E170*, CR7
NW ARJ*, E170*, CR9*
UA E170*, CR7
US E170, E190*, CR7, CR9
* = first class cabin
AA CR7
AS CR7, DH4
DL E170*, CR7
NW ARJ*, E170*, CR9*
UA E170*, CR7
US E170, E190*, CR7, CR9
* = first class cabin
Last edited by TVCMH; Oct 9, 2006 at 1:09 pm
Oct 9, 2006, 1:16 pm
#17
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Originally Posted by TVCMH
I agree that the current ERJ fleet cannot turn a profit simply by adding a first class cabin, but consider that every other major operates (or has on order) a regional A/C with at least 69 seats and you've got to imagine it's only going to be a matter of time before CO does the same...
AA CR7
AS CR7, DH4
DL E170*, CR7
NW ARJ*, E170*, CR9*
UA E170*, CR7
US E170, E190*, CR7, CR9
* = first class cabin
AA CR7
AS CR7, DH4
DL E170*, CR7
NW ARJ*, E170*, CR9*
UA E170*, CR7
US E170, E190*, CR7, CR9
* = first class cabin
Oct 9, 2006, 1:37 pm
#18
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Originally Posted by TVCMH
UA E170*, CR7
...
* = first class cabin
...
* = first class cabin
Oct 9, 2006, 1:48 pm
#19
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Originally Posted by TVCMH
UA E170*, CR7
[. . .]
* = first class cabin
[. . .]
* = first class cabin
Oct 9, 2006, 4:40 pm
#20
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I just got off a DL E170. VERY nice plane. There were 2 rows of F (1-2), and although I was in Y, seating was rather comfortable. I'm guessing seat pitch was 32-33" and width was reasonable. CO is really missing the boat here.
Oct 9, 2006, 7:06 pm
#21
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Originally Posted by TWA Fan 1
CO 1E, You know I have been very vocal in my differences of opinion with CO brass but this is one area where I agree with them 100% for a variety of reasons.
The bottom line, these planes are just too small to legitimately hold anything approaching true FC.
The bottom line, these planes are just too small to legitimately hold anything approaching true FC.
Oct 9, 2006, 7:54 pm
#22
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Originally Posted by socrates
FYI NWA's Pilot Scope limit is 68 seats, so the new planes will have exactly 67 seats
Oct 9, 2006, 8:15 pm
#23
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Originally Posted by carpboy
The EMB's, yes, but with the size the 'commuters' are approaching it is now quite resonable I think.
Oct 9, 2006, 9:51 pm
#24
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Originally Posted by billiam
Some UAEX CR7s also have first class, 6 seats in 2 rows of 1-2 layout.
the fact that they needed two FA's must have increased costs.
HP didnt do anything special except for complimentary drinks (in plastic) which i expect the other mainlines do on the RJ's with FC as well.
Oct 9, 2006, 9:58 pm
#25
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Originally Posted by dlen111
HP didnt do anything special except for complimentary drinks (in plastic) which i expect the other mainlines do on the RJ's with FC as well.
In addition to free drinks, UA has snack boxes or meals. They even have a wetnap-style towel service.
It's kind of a watered down F service, but it's better than coach. UA's coach also has Economy Plus.
See http://www.unitedexplus.com/main.html for more info.
Oct 9, 2006, 10:18 pm
#26
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Originally Posted by J.Edward
More F on an NW RJ than a CO 737?
What can you do but chuckle.
What can you do but chuckle.
CO's been slipping too much for too long and now its really going to start to show.....
Oct 9, 2006, 11:18 pm
#27
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Originally Posted by HeathrowGuy
I'm sure CO has noted this acquisition of planes by NWA, financed on the backs of its employees.
Oct 10, 2006, 5:33 am
#28
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Originally Posted by pmaddock
What indeed - in fact I think this is going to start showing the dark underbelly that's been growing under CO's glossy exterior and good name for far far too long. Under LK CO has seen far too much reliance on RJs operating in that pig sty that IAH-B has become (never mind the even nastier mess CO let grow and fester under its name over at IAH-A). LK's glorious leadership has also brought CO into an era where an RJ operated by an airline in bankruptcy is going to have more FC seats than a CO mainline a/c.
CO's been slipping too much for too long and now its really going to start to show.....
CO's been slipping too much for too long and now its really going to start to show.....
Also, under LK CO has found its delicate balance of value provided to the customers disrupted by LK's relentless and narrow focus on cutting costs.
Now, there is nothing wrong with cutting costs, but since this has largely been achieved by reducing value to the customer, I believe that the unique model that CO created is no longer valid and that the airline continues to benefit from the residual goodwill built up by the airline's previous management regime.
Secondly, the airline marketplace is changing rapidly all around, including B6 shifting the paradigm to premium coach, a move that has resonated with the traveling public and which has been adopted not only by DL, but also players such as F9. In the meantime, CO reduces the seat pitch in its 752's and subjects coach passengers to 31" seat pitch on its 777's, including the 16 hr+ flights from EWR to NRT and HKG.
Then, there is the introduction of the next generation of business class, a cateogry that now includes (among U.S.-based carriers) NW and AA. These products are not perfect but they are far more advanced than CO's BF, which is taking on a decidedly "vintage" feel.
Couple that with CO's refusal to upgrade IFE in any significant fashion in the coach cabin and you have the makings of an airline too focused on the short-term results, one that is financing its relatively good performance today by underinvesting in its future.
CO does not operate in a stasis and it will find that, unless it starts focusing on value delivered to the customer again, the damage to its vaunted reputation will be severe and very painful to remedy.
Oct 10, 2006, 7:22 am
#29
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Originally Posted by CO 1E
I believe the CO brass have stated unequivocally that F will never be introduced on the existing regional fleet.
Oct 10, 2006, 8:34 am
#30
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Originally Posted by TWA Fan 1
Then, there is the introduction of the next generation of business class, a cateogry that now includes (among U.S.-based carriers) NW and AA. These products are not perfect but they are far more advanced than CO's BF, which is taking on a decidedly "vintage" feel.