Well, most of us are here because we've flown coach and no longer wish to be part of that "other" 90%. :D

CO does transcon EWR-PDX
CLE is 400 miles west of EWR

If I am not mistaken, PHX is 400 miles east of LAX.
I would think that the CLE to LAX, SFO is equivalent in importance to EWR to PHX in terms of passengers. I believe CO has 4 non-stops a day from CLE to LAX and they do run full (and thankfully on time usually). I tend to believe some of the earlier posters who state that lack of competition is what drives the service. In my opinion, this is crazy. It doesn't cost much to upgrade the service and you would get lots of positive spin from doing it. I am not asking for bigger planes although that would be nice, just better in-flight service. Big upside, small expense.

Well, me too, of course.

Then again, I don't find that my loyalty to CO has made much of a difference lately since I'm 1 for 26 on upgrades since Feb 2005.

Of course, I could just buy a full FC fare, but that doesn't require elite status.

I think the point is as CO has started selling FC instead of giving it away to upgrades, many of the airline's most loyal customers have found that the value of their loyalty has been severly diminished.

So the choice becomes either shelling out big money for FC (not an option for me), flying coach on CO, or flying the competition.

Of course, there are those who will just spend the $$ for FC, but there are many loyal OP elites out there who are coming to the realization that they will be consigned to flying CO coach on a frequent basis.

And that's where CO needs to be very careful about not alienating their most loyal customers because their coach product is so sub-standard.

Meals at Mealtime
 

I have been told that the only reason that Continental even serves meals is that they own Chelsea Catering in their hubs....this was told to me by competing airline executives

CO needs to be very careful about not alienating their most loyal customers because their coach product is so sub-standard

I think that CO's coach product is equivalent to the industry standard, not below it. They provide food, drinks and IFE (depending on plane and distance) for no additional charge and the seat pitch is within one inch of everyone elses (for the most part). Looking at domestic airlines, who else does that? Yes, certain airlines such as Jet Blue have better seat pitch and newer IFE, but you pay for that with limited city availability, limited food and a very very limited FFP. In CLE, I have no availability to F6 so its promise of great seats and IFE is meaningless. And I am sorry to say, this is probably true for lots of passengers in this country.
Furthermore, when it comes to the general public, it is price which carries the day. When my college-age daughter wants to fly from ROC-NYC, the only number she cares about has a $ in front of it, and if the lowest cost flight is a US propjet, she will take it rather than F6's magnificent airbus.
In the game of passenger travel, it is all about trade-offs. What is someone willing to lose to get more seat pitch and IFE on their flight? For some people, this is more important than food, FFP's and schedules. This is why we have lots of competition in the airline business.

I have been told that the only reason that Continental even serves meals is that they own Chelsea Catering in their hubs....this was told to me by competing airline executives

What Larry told everyone at the DO was that it was better to feed passengers at mealtime and keep them happy and quiet (fed people are not as grouchy as hungry ones) than to save the approx. $1.50 that it cost to feed each one of them. I suspect it also gives CO a great marketing edge as well.

First, clearly if any airline doesn't serve your market, it doesn't do you a lot of good. Singapore has great service and comfort but unlikely to get you from Cleveland to Phoenix.

But my comment was directed at the transcon market which was the original post on this thread. And really the only transcon market where flying CO is a reasonable possibility is out of NYC.

Then the question becomes what's important to you as a passenger. Do I appreciate the fact that, if I fly CO coach, I get a melted cheese sandwich, a paper pillow and a fiberglass blanket? Sure.

But I'm just as happy to give up the cheese sandwich for more space. To me, the essence of the product is the space I'm "renting" for the duration of the flight. Using that criterion CO has the the worst product.

Yes, you're right that only B6 has substantially more legroom, but even that one inch of seat pitch on all the other airlines makes a huge difference, at least for me. And all the other carriers flying transcon provide their coach passengers with at least 32" of seat pitch.

And let's not forget UA E+, which is free to UA MP elites and available for $40 to anyone (I have willingly spent this $40). And then Delta's Song planes which also have much more legroom.

Finally, regardless of legroom, there is the issue of CO's coach seat, rock-hard and thin, brutally uncomfortable for the six hours of a transcon. These seats and the limited seat pitch were designed so CO could cram in one extra row of seats (on the 737-800's it's only three additional seats, the infamous Stink Shield row).

Finally, you mention the issue of price. I think this issue is quite a bit more ambiguous than the accepted gospel. For example, I can state many examples where CO was not only more expensive, but at least double the fare for an equivalent itinerary, and yet they continue to fly full. And this with less legroom than anyone else in the industry except some planes on AirTran and AWA.

You can't tell me that people are willingly spending more to fly CO's reduced legroom just because they get a melted cheese sandwich. Why not just fly the competition, save yourself a couple hundred bucks and then buy yourself a really good meal before you get on the plane? You get a better meal, a more comfortable and spacious seat, and you've saved yourself a bundle.

There will always be leisure flyers who only fly based on the commodity value of the product. Personally, I fly a lot of B6, although it is rarely the cheapest, based on the comfort and space I receive. And, as I've written earlier, my informal discussions with my fellow B6 passengers reveal that all of them are aware that there were cheaper options but that they selected B6 based on the comfort and space.

TWA - if you have such a big problem with CO then don't fly it. Everyone here knows the issues with CO Coach. Your whining about it isn't going to make a difference.

we shouldn't whine...hopefully Continental reads this thread and they will realize that their product is inferior. They have always been the leader and now they are letting JETBLUE surpass them. All their key execs incuding their Pres David Barger are former CO personal and obviously they have gotten frustrated with the Houston mentality and left.

All the "cool" young wealthy investment banker types in their 20's and 30's in NYC are flocking to JETBLUE.......CONTINENTAL needs to be aware of this. JETBLUE is the up and comer....Starwood doesn't sit aside and look how succesful they are with their hotels. Check out their new W product ALOFT..
Continental can't sit back and be stale. The new generation does not want to fly their "father's Airline....


Look where NW is with their midwestern mentality and shoddy service.....

look at where WN is with their mentality and shoddy product.

CO coach is very simple, clean and reliable. Would AVOD in each seat be nice? sure. CO knows that their coach product is not great. They've said repeatedly that people repeatedly have shown that they aren't willing to pay for that extra space. If people were willing, than MRTC wouldn't have disappeared on AA.

Actually I feel the service FROM Cleveland is better than from Newark sans the terminal amenities itself. I fly to SFO/LAX from Cleveland and prefer it OVER Newark anyday!

Yes Flights from Cleveland are PACKED, the local economy has bounced back pretty strong and lots of people in general that are Continental FFs actually prefer to connect in cleveland (for various reasons) instead of connecting or departing Newark. Also, there isn't any LCC on LAX, SFO, DEN, PHX, SEA for Cleveland. Southwest only flies to Vegas from Cleveland.

You can't knock WN: its passengers love it. This airline is incredibly successful. It sets expectations low and meets them every time.

I agree that Continental's coach product is inferior, but I also think it's doing things right. It's getting its financials in order first--thinking long term--then, I am sure, it will focus on its product.

IMO, in the next few years, where CO is likely to start feeling competition is with its high end travelers--those most sensitive to issues other than price.

I fly as little CO as possible. However living in NYC it is inevitable that sooner or later one will be obliged to fly CO. And so I end up at least silver if not gold.

Main principal complaint about CO is the aggressive marketing which is designed to provide the impression that CO is the last bastion of the "quality airline experience" with perks such as hot meals, pillows and blankets.

It's really a little deceptive when you realize that, while you do get a melted cheese sandwich, you're actually sitting in the least spacious and least comfortable coach cabin in America.

Otherwise, the product is perfectly adequate. Planes are reasonably clean and new, on-time record is decent, etc.

I can and do knock WN. WN sucks, I wouldn't want to fly on that cattle car junk airline, they are making money but they don't have the kind of network, or clientele, that CO has.

B6 isn't making much money these days either....

I also prefer connecting thru CLE rather than EWR because its much less delay prone, and very easy to get around. The people are also friendly. I do believe that as CO squeeze more flights out of its aircraft, it will rely on CLE more to do a lot more of the connecting traffic because EWR is simply tapped out.

B6 may not be reporting the kind of profit that Continental is but to a large extent it's because B6 is spending a lot of money to expand.

As for WN having a "shoddy" product, one of the painful ironies is that WN has more legroom in coach and a far more comfortable seat than CO coach.