Inportant Change to ExpertFlyer for CO
 

We have done more research on this R class issue and have found the following:

- The Sabre (or Sabre/ITN) availability data, for whatever reason, for R class inventory is not consistent with the data when direct connecting to CO. We believe the CO direct connect data to be the most accurate.

- We have changed our access method for all CO flight availability to directly access CO to achieve the most accurate data.

- As a result of this change, you must specifiy "R" in the Class box when doing a Flight Availability query on ExpertFlyer. This will then respond with all classes, including R. Failure to specify R in the Class box will return all buckets but not R.

- Keep in mind that the meaning of R data for flights as of Sept 20th is, according to CO Insider a revenue fare.

We will keep an eye on this situation and make changes, if possible, as necessary to provide the most accurate information and let you know accordingly. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Thank you all for your support,
EFV

Edited to add: If you specify R in Class, CO will attempt to provide a response where there is R class availability between your specifed city pairs which may be through connections instead of more direct or n/s routes. This should be interpreted as R class inventory being currently zero for the direct routes within the time window specified. Try moving the Departure time forward 6-10 hours as this may expose R availability on more direct routes. If no R inventory is returned on CO then it just is not available for what was specified.

Thanks for the update, EFV!

E bucket?
 

Has anyone else noticed that the E fare bucket is showing up on Sabre:ITN now? I know that according to the most up to date info I've found on here that it is for non-Elite economy rewards. Anyone happen to know if they're changing the E bucket?

CO Insider, I'm looking at you. :D

There are no current plans to change the E bucket. E class will continue to be used for First/BusinessFirst class free ticket awards for non-Elites. If you can see E, this will be your indication that EN (used for Elites) is also available, since E is always a subset of EN.

OT but when will Rev Mgmt release standard rewards? I'm held up in some reward travel for next year and the only thing CO lists is Easy Pass and I'm told that Rev Mgmt is still holding up releasing the new coded standard reward seats.

You're correct KosraeTV, we still have several markets that are in mid-conversion. This process is expected to be completed by Wed. 9-Aug. If that changes, I'll let you know.

Thanks ! That info does help :D

Has anyone noticed that R avail has disappeared from Sabre, but appeared on Galileo and Apollo? Wonder what this could mean.

Any update on when (and if) the new fare classes (F, EN) will be available on Sabre?

I'm looking at flights well before Sep 20 and can't see F or R :(

This is to confirm that this process has been completed. F and EN classes are live in the Continental system and are available for booking.

I do not know if/when these classes will ever be visible in Sabre, to be honest.

Sottt:
Will R still be the bucket for int'l BF upgrades? Thanks

Ok, so I've never seen my name spelled this way.

For upgrades on flights scheduled to depart between now and 19-Sep 2006 it's still R class. For flights departing on or after 20-Sep 2006, it's now F class.

Follow up w/r/t R
 

Just out of curiosity, what will R be?

For example, J is full fare BF, D is almost full fare BF and Z is discounted BF. Where does (or will) R fit into this?

For flights on or after 20-Sep 2006, R class is used as a retail premium cabin bucket for all flights having a First Class or BusinessFirst cabin. It'll be used for discounted premium cabin fares, and is currently set below Z in our fare class heirarchy.

Scott,

Perhaps a silly question, but, is the "premium" cabin the F/BF cabin, or the elite section of coach, or something else?

Thanks for clarifying, mbreuer. By premium cabin, I'm referring to the First Class and BusinessFirst cabin.

When will R fares be loaded in the system and bookable? Also, you have probably read how many of us are concerned that Z fares regularly book below Y, or at least too close to the Y fare. If R prices below Z, how will that affect Y fares and the already existing situation where the premium cabin is sold out.

I know R will surely be capacity controlled, but it would worsen an already existing problem finding seats for upgrade or purchase on many routes.

Also, is the fare bucket change being coordinated with Northwest and Delta? They may continue to report Elite upgrades as 'R', and I know Delta FC standard award tickets are booked in R class on their side as well.

Will 'R' fares earn 150% EQM or 100%?

Since it's technically above H and Y, I'd assume 150. < 100% EQM wouldn't make sense (to me, anyway).

I just upgraded from H to Business first on a 777, TLV-EWR for Aug. 27th and got an R fare.
I don't even know what it is (but then, it's my first trip in something else than coach). And btw, can't pick my seat online, and none attributed. Anyone can show me the light?

Sorry, actually read the thread now and I know what R is (flight before Sept. 20th so I guess this is the old R).
Question toward seating still unsolved though...

Does CO want to hide all the availability?
 

Hi Scott,
So, you're the man here. I have a couple questions. Are all the flights totally full up front now? I'm zero for six legs EUA since making silver a week or two back. I had two days for travel, out and back, for a trip this week and selected my flights after checking the seat maps, seeing that the ones I choose had plenty of open seats up front less than 24 hours before departure. Well, I ended up with 23A, a "narrow seat" (**) and 10D, a non-recline (**). I put some miles into CO because I remembered MVP on AS and Gold on NW and the EUA systems they had when I flew on them a few years back. Now with a territory realignment I thought CO might be the ticket since UA Premier and AA Plat (both earned this year) haven't given me any upgrades yet. Does CO want to hide all the availability? I had all day to travel at my convenience. Instead of sitting up front for the first EUA on CO this week I was scrunched and slouched. While I don't have the excitement of a possible upgrade on UA with each flight, at least they have E+ which beats the seats I'm getting even with the little pizza, the Milky Way candy bar, and the movie. Even one time was too many: watching "She's the Man" (**) and "Failure to Launch" for the umpteenth time has gotten real old really really fast.

**these shouldn't be allowed; they're inhuman

Your experience is far from unique.

Plenty of open seats up front 24 hours in advance doesn't really mean much. There can be reservations without seat assignments, making the cabin look more empty than it really is, or there can be seats blocked (without reservations) making the cabin look more full than it is. It's generally a bad idea to make conclusions based on a seat map. However, if there was plenty of availability in "A" class (e.g., A7) 24 hours in advance, that's just an example of CO withholding all elite upgrades, likely until 3 hours before the flight, when all A inventory gets dumped to R (soon to be F) and elite upgrades (EUA) get processed. They do this on many flights, particularly ones with a history of last-minute paid F purchases. So there were probably a number of Plats and/or Golds waiting for their upgrades as well at the time, and they have higher priority than you as Silver. CO Insider has sometimes been so kind to actually look up the info on a specific flight and share with us exactly who got upgraded and what level they were, if you really think the system scr*wed you, you can PM him.

If your move to CO was for the purposes of improving your upgrade percentage, I'd have to say, as a Silver, you will likely be severely disappointed, unless you are buying full Y fares. The main benefits of Silver are expedited security lines, pre-boarding, elite seating and the ability to upgrade any domestic fare with miles. Free upgrades happen once in a while, enjoy them when they do!

Oh, final advice -- if you've made UA Premier (not sure what level that is?), AA Plat and CO Silver all in the same year, I think you're spreading your flying among too many airlines. (Unless, as I suspect, one or more of these statuses were received as a comp/challenges.) Concentrate in one, get a higher status, and that's how you'll improve your upgrade percentage.

"wasting" miles on other airlines
 

Thanks for the good advice ij, but I can't justify spending the company's money when CO has a $600 fare and AA wants $1150 for the same route. I spend the money like it's mine, leading to "wasting" miles on other airlines. In fact, adding up the miles "wasted" this year on DL, US (flown still with AW paint), and even F9 and WN (7 points of 16 thus far, with no plan to hit 16), I'd easily have made top tier in any program. Of course, I'd have spent a bit more money to do that.
In the past 8 years I've made higher levels just by bis, including (dumb?) AS MVP Gold and NW Gold in the same year. I definitely pushed some revenue to CO this year, presuming I'd have an experience like I did on AS and NW, but now that I think about it I guess I was golden on those and not just silver. I did just discover FT a few months back, however, and I'm planning to strategize a bit more now....
:)

OK, I gotta ask this as I'm confused and it doesn't make sense the way I'm reading this. You're NW Gold and you've flown a lot on Delta this year and you just made Silver on CO? If you're NW Gold then why not use that number? If you've flown Delta and CO why not just keep using your NW World Perks Number for your flight segments? Maybe I'm not understanding here but they're all skyteam partners, why would you want NW Gold and CO Silver, just doesn't make sense.

Now that that's out of the way, welcome to Flyertalk. As far as Silver on CO depending on your city good luck getting an upgrade. Depends on how you book but if you're going deep discounted fares then these pages are full of Plat's that don't get upgrades on those fares. If you purchase Y then you can get an upgrade at time of booking on some segments.

Good luck; and for a piece of good information, my kids are silver and they get upgraded about 50% of the time when they fly (but it's not a common route).

make at least Gold, improving my chances
 

This year I'm AA PLT, UA Premier, and CO Silver, so far, all earned this year. I've "wasted" miles on the other carriers because I've always taken the miles with the carrier I'm on. Right now I have 999034 miles spread across AS, AA, DL, CO, US, NW, UA, F9, and KE, along with 7 WN points. Upgrades are worth more than miles in the bank because I never seem to get to use them ("No, no flights on those days, but you can buy a ticket" :rolleyes: ) Now I think with some time in on FT I will start to request credit on other carriers. With my current job I've had multiple territory realignments over the years. In the past I've been UA Prem. Exec, NW Gold, and AS MVP Gold. Seems like just when I make status they change my territory. :eek:

Thank you kindly! As I understand it there might be some advantage to sticking around here for some time, education-wise and, possibly, advantage-wise, maybe?; does that 90 post threshold get you something? Also, I've already seen a couple hot deals that were still open and book-able but, funny, I really don't want to pay to fly anywhere. In fact, I don't even want to go for free. In coach anyway. Now having three attractive flight attendants leaning over me at the same time in LH First Class a few years back, one offering the dessert tray, one adjusting my blanket for me, and one explaining the IFE equipment, well, that's one of highlights of my life so far! :D The airlines need more three class aircraft, even domestically; there's just no middle class: If you're upgraded you're happy; if not, you're very unhappy.

For my SNA-DTW RT this week I was on an H ticket ($769.40 with the CO MC discount). The Y ticket was hundreds more; how can I justify that? Well, I will justify it to avoid 23A. I'm never sitting in 23A again. Ever. I hope.

Unfortunately for me, SNA is pretty tough. There were ten (10) people ahead of me on the list. My options include changing to UA with a virtually guaranteed E+ seat, forgetting CO entirely, or putting some more miles into CO to make at least Gold, improving my chances. On some domestic routes AA is comparably priced and the double miles (PLT) will buy some upgrades so I have a bunch to think about and a lot more reading to do: only six and a quarter million posts to go....

I'm a little confused, too. Are you crediting all your SkyTeam trips to one FF account, ideally CO or NW. If not, if you are already silver, crediting your DL and NW trips to CO would bump you closer to Gold and maybe Plat depending on the number of miles you're "wasting" on DL and NW.

Ah sushibear.... you beat me to it as I still am not following either.

OK jtalstad, if you took your KE, DL, CO, NW flights, and put them under one account, and you pick that, say you like NW or CO or DL or KE or whatever, just pick one. Call that your main airline. Personally I think most would pick NW or CO but that's not my call for you. You pick one. They are all skyteam airline alliance, so a NW plat would get upgraded on a CO flight faster then a CO gold would. A CO Plat would get upgraded on a NW flight faster then a NW gold, etc....

Let's say you choose CO. When you check in for the KE flight / book it you use your CO onepass number. When you check in for the DL flight / book it, use your CO onepass number. When you check in for the NW flight / book it, use your CO onepass number.

That way all your miles are going into one account. I know you said the miles don't matter but the upgrades do, but this way you get all your miles EQM's, going into one account for all four airlines so you can make Gold or Plat faster. It does no good to have status on CO and NW and DL etc... Unless you're flying 150,000 EQM's each year on both CO and NW or whatever but even then I'd still only pick one airline.

Also the miles you will get accumulated under your CO account for flying on DL or NW or whatever, you can get and use your miles on those airlines also.

So I still am not following your logic here. If you complain about being a lowly Silver on CO and not getting upgrades and want status on a SkyTeam then funnel everything to one card and you'll get it.

How does one book these new R fares? I'm looking at booking AUS-TLV and return next March. KVS shows R4 for all segments but only Z and D fares are coming up on co.com. If I try to force it to book R class I get a message that that is an invalid fare class.

Of course, I'm assuming a R fare would be the cheapest. Maybe not.

Thank you KosraeTV and sushibear!
I'm going to do as you suggest. I'm still deciding on a main airline and now, this week, the company I work for was acquired so, again, just as I've made status on three carriers, I expect a territory realignment or, maybe, I'll have a position in the new company that won't involve travel anymore. Just a comment: I distinctly remember years back a NW GA (who recognized me since I was such a regular at MSP) giving me a wink and putting me up front over some CO heavy flyers; it seems they gave preference to their own FFers. I'm working over to the alliance posts in FT pretty soon.... It's a ton of research to figure all this out and my FlyerTalk pages don't load fast, adding a 3-5 second delay after loading the the Aloha or National ad at the top and the main header before following with the page contents; is that typical for everyone or should I investigate a computer issue on my side? :confused:

This comes up quite frequently here. Fare class and inventory class are two separate things. Just because there is "R" inventory doesn't mean there will be a published "R" fare (and of course, just because there is a published "R" fare doesn't mean that there will be availability on any given flight!). In fact, on AUS-TLV in March, the only published fares are Q, V, B, H, Z, Y, J and D. If you tried to force CO.com to book, say, a "K" fare, you'd get the same error message. There may be published "R" fare classes on flights to TLV from other cities, though a spot-check of a few did not reveal any (BOS/EWR/LAX/MIA-TLV). They might not have gotten around to publishing any R fares to TLV, or even any R fares anywhere yet. One step at a time.

which flight offers the best chance for an upgrade tomorrow
 

I'd like to know which flight offers the best chance for an upgrade tomorrow (22 August) SNA-DTW returning Thursday DTW-SNA (24 August). I have all day to travel on both days. My preference would be mid morning on Tuesday returning on the second to the last flight (to make sure I get home!) on Thursday but I'll go a different time to avoid coach and especially avoid a non-recline seat or a narrower than normal seat. I'm buying a refundable ticket so if I'm assigned those seats I'm not flying. I did download the KVS availability software but I need an activation code to use it read that the author is out of town and I have to wait a bit. Is there another availability software? or, if it's quick and easy to check, well, Thanks in advance for a PM....

Hi There:
Sorry to resurrect an old thread. Let's say I'm a Silver, I have a flight on a Saturday, I stay up late Thursday night, and Friday at 12:01am there's R availability. Can I call CO and have my upgrade manually processed, beating out EUA?

Absolutely not. Agents haven't processed upgrades since the EUA system began. The reason you can't call to manually be EUA'd is because the computer decides who gets the remaining R seats based on status and fare class paid. Just because the silver window opens and there is R availability doesn't mean you can just call and take the seat - there might be other silvers with higher fares ahead of you, and the system is designed to process it automatically.

HOWEVER, if you see 'R' availability, you can call and use miles from your account to upgrade. They will be happy to process this.

What is R class?
 

With the base mileage for a F/BF ticket falling to 100% from 150% (although points will remain the same), can one assume R is simply going to be a very discounted J ticket ....or is it too much wishful thinking that R is going to become a new instantly upgraded Y to BF for elites similar to how the AU's work domestically?

The miles earned for Y/R travel are identical come 2008, so I hope this is a precursor to an actual program change for the better for next year. :D

By all indications, R is a First/BusinessFirst fare. The mileage earning on this fare really has nothing to do with what type of fare it is, Revenue management sets the fares, rules and inventory availability, and the OnePass department decides, somewhat independently I assume, how many bonus miles / EQPs each specific fare class will earn.

These R fares are replacing what used to be the cheapest of the Z fares, which were usually for the seasonal (summer/Xmas) BF fare sales.
For example, as part of the DL fare match, CO is offering a $998 (+tax) r/t fare on EWR-LGW starting 11/15:
RL5S3E, 50 day advance purchase, $400 change fee, Sat. night stay requirement

The next cheapest fare is also R:
RLR50APE, $2326 r/t, with 50 day a/p, $300 change fee and 7 day stay requirement.

Then come the Z fares:
ZR30AP3E, $3065, 30 day a/p, refundable/changeable, 7 day min stay
ZR14PE, $3330, 14 day a/p, $200 change fee, no min stay

Then come the D and J fares (though FWIW, the D fare is rather restricted on this route...).

And note, I haven't seen any R fares on domestic routes, only BF routes, but that doesn't mean there aren't or won't be.

Why R could be automatic upgrade to BF
 

CO has said a few times in the past that they have a "problem" with passengers booking full Y seats on transoceanic flights and cancelling at the last minute.

I've even been known to do this waiting for a waitlisted upgrade to BF to clear.

But if R becomes the international equivalent of the "AU" bucket for elites, a person could book full Y, automatically get upgraded into BusinessFirst (in J), and free up the revenue to sell in coach ...as long as there's space available in BF. Because most J transoceanic travel is business travelers who are typically there because their arrangement with their company guarantees that travel be confirmed in J, they'll continue to buy J tickets. Your flyers flying on their own dime will probably continue to buy discounted tickets (or discounted tickets + mileage + fee) and the smaller population of high-fare paying Y Elites being able to automatically get moved up.

I know if I bought a full Y and was automatically upgraded, I'd be good to go on that flight. If I bought a full Y today and waited around for the upgrade game, there's a 50/50 shot that I'd fly that route. And if someone else bought Y, it could still be sold since their "iffy" reservation is held in J where flights are sold for a premium anyway.

Why else introduce a subclass in BusinessFirst with less mileage earnings?

Honestly, and with all due respect, I'm not sure I understand any of your post. CO already has sub-classes of coach with different EQM earnings, so they're just extending that concept to the front of the plane. It makes perfect sense that they don't want to give you extra miles for purchasing such a deeply discounted BusinessFirst ticket.

CO has never said anything about offering free upgrades on Y fares on BF routes, and I'm sure it'll be a cold day you-know-where before they do that. And you should be aware that in many, if not most, cases, these new R fares are significantly less than Y fares (the EWR-LGW Y fare is over $3K, compared to $1K for the cheapest R fare). The R fares are very restricted, and the Y fares are completely flexible. Very different target markets.