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Originally Posted by xyzzy
(Post 8628383)
Where would they get them? Who else has 772 aircraft with the same engines as CO's current fleet?
In fact, they can even buy two 772As with whatever Hyundai/Kia/Yugo engines on them to just do the two EWR-LHR flights with them. Heck, wetlease 333/343/345/346 or even 744s. Just need to get something with a pair of wings and some engines on them. |
Larry said at the DO that cle-lhr will not happen anytime soon.....ams maybe, but not lhr or tlv like we thought
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Originally Posted by lille11
(Post 8630654)
Larry said at the DO that cle-lhr will not happen anytime soon.....ams maybe, but not lhr or tlv like we thought
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The IAH-LHRs would probably be operated with 772x2 or 772+767 and a 767 or 777 on gatwick.
EWR-LHR we're talking 777+767, with the gatwick services going to 752. Its going to be VERY tough for them to do this schedule unless they replace some other EU service with 757s. That may be the plan (They did say all 752's were spoken for even though they are not seemingly presently deployed). They really really could use more 772s, 4 is a good number given a contingency on PVG and for competitive reasons on the LHR services. The 787 may be the future, but first they are in a serious hole. |
CO has 20 772s, and usually one of them in heavy maintenance. So, 19 birds. After you subtracting out the HKG, PEK, NRT (2x), TLV (2x), DEL and BOM routes, you can run 5 US-Europe flights each day for summer 2008. For summer 2009, unless they can get the 787s by summer, they can only run 3 US-Europe flights each day with the 772s.
That won't even cover the 4 slots at LHR they're reputed to have. What are they going to fly to CDG? --- 764. They have 16 aircrafts, but with so many routes to HNL as well as IAH-GRU, the most they can use for Europe is 5 flights a day. [For late summer 2007, they flew IAH-AMS, EWR-AMS/GVA/MXP/FCO.] They probably have to cut capacity to Rome or Geneva to free up a couple of 764s for BRU and FRA (both will lose 772s service next summer with EWR-BOM flying daily now). I don't know what's the yield on GUM-NRT and HNL-NGO, but those routes may have to be substituted or cut. --- The 762s have even higher utilization this summer. Of the 10 planes, two go to South America each night and don't come back until morning 2 days later. So, only 5 possible flights to Europe each night. For late summer 2007, they are EWR-ATH/DUB/FCO/ZRH, and one split between EWR-CDG and IAH-AMS depending on day of week. DUB will definitely be gone from 762 duty, but that's only one extra bird freed up. --- So, basically, if Hawaii/Asia/S. America service remains the same, and they don't get more widebodies, they have 15 widebody planes to fly from US to Europe each night in summer 2008 - 5 772s, 5 764s and 5 762s. For summer 2009, 3 772s, 5 764s and 5 762s, plus whatever number of 787s they can get. The routes that absolutely require widebodies (because of range) are: IAH- AMS, CDG, LHR, LGW EWR- ATH, FCO, MXP So, it's pretty interesting to see what will happen. How many IAH-London and IAH-AMS flights will we see? What other routes will go to all 752s? (GVA? ZRH? FRA? These are all shorter than EWR-TXL, so not impossible). |
I came across this from the 3rd quarter earnings report at Yahoo:
The first deliveries of our 25 Boeing 787 aircraft on firm order are scheduled in 2009. Boeing recently announced that its initial Boeing 787 deliveries would be delayed six months, from May 2008 to late November or December 2008. Boeing has not informed us of the effect, if any, this delay will have on our scheduled deliveries. Our mainline capacity growth for 2009 and thereafter may be reduced below the target range if there are significant delays in the scheduled deliveries of our Boeing 787 aircraft, particularly if we are unable to make alternative arrangements to acquire long-range aircraft on commercially acceptable terms. I think even without the internal guidance Boeing gave CO you can see where having a delay in 787 delivery seems almost like a forgone conclusion. Having some extra widebodies (772s) will be advantageous, particularly now that both PVG and LHR need flights. They could be going after manufacturer backstop financing for future 772s as they have with the last few they took delivery on. Their quarterly report from 2007-04-19 makes for some interesting reading though: We have manufacturer backstop financing for up to 24 (depending on the model selected) of the 30 737 aircraft scheduled to be delivered in 2009. However, we do not have backstop financing or any other financing currently in place for the remaining six 737 aircraft on order, nor do we have backstop financing or any other financing for the 25 787 aircraft on order. |
Originally Posted by Lurker1999
(Post 8631067)
I think even without the internal guidance Boeing gave CO you can see where having a delay in 787 delivery seems almost like a forgone conclusion. Having some extra widebodies (772s) will be advantageous, particularly now that both PVG and LHR need flights.
As RKKWAN pointed out, most all of the planes are called for currently, and they can't expand without something new coming online or turning everything in europe to 752 status. |
Originally Posted by crnk
(Post 8631911)
That is something I don't understand, either. If CO needs planes, then they should order planes. Also, if the 772 production is currently with a 1.5yr backup, I'd think that the market for used 772s would be pretty good, so they could sell off several at the time that the 787 series starts to arrive en masse.
As RKKWAN pointed out, most all of the planes are called for currently, and they can't expand without something new coming online or turning everything in europe to 752 status. However, we do not have backstop financing or any other financing currently in place for the remaining six 737 aircraft on order, nor do we have backstop financing or any other financing for the 25 787 aircraft on order. Also: At September 30, 2007, our senior unsecured debt was rated B3 by Moody's and CCC+ by Standard & Poor's. While Moody's upgraded our senior unsecured debt rating from Caa1 in March 2007, our credit ratings remain significantly below-investment grade. They state they do not have financing for planes they are on firm order, let alone more planes beyond those they've already committed to. The money has to come from somewhere and their credit rating will raise the cost of securing further financing. |
They have a pretty solid business plan, they're making money. If they want to buy more planes, they can get financing. I really don't think that's an issue.
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NW Launches LHR flights from MSP, DTW and SEA
Main thread on the NWA forum
Originally Posted by geoffco
(Post 8869051)
Northwest Airlines, in cooperation with its joint venture partner, KLM Royal Dutch Airlines, is pleased to announce three new daily non stop flights from London Heathrow Airport to Detroit, Minneapolis/St. Paul and Seattle.
Beginning in the spring of 2008 and operating from London Heathrow Terminal 4, KLM Northwest's new non stop services will conveniently connect London Heathrow with more than 250 destinations throughout the United States for customers travelling via Northwest's Detroit and Minneapolis/St. Paul hubs, and Seattle gateway. World Business Class travellers can enjoy an array of features including 60 inches of space between seats, 110-volt personal laptop power port, cycling lumbar support, a six-way adjustable headrest and four seat-back storage pockets. An on demand in-flight entertainment (IFE) system is available in both cabins, offering travellers a choice of 40 movies, four short-subject video programs, 56 different audio selections, six games, shopping and in-flight information. Effective 30 March (first inbound flight commences 29 March): Minneapolis/St Paul NW 103 London Heathrow/Minneapolis 1425/1725 NW 104 Minneapolis/London Heathrow 2145/1215 +1 Effective 2 May (first inbound flight commences 1 May): Detroit NW 101 London Heathrow/Detroit 0850/1230 NW 102 Detroit/ London Heathrow 1750/0705 +1 Effective 2 June (first inbound flight commences 1 June): Seattle NW 105 London Heathrow/Seattle 1830/2055 NW 106 Seattle/London Heathrow 2220/1615 +1 In addition to the London Heathrow services, Northwest will also continue to operate daily round-trip flights between London Gatwick and Detroit, giving customers two great options from the South East. All flights are now on sale. More flexibility. More opportunity to earn Flying Blue Miles from London Heathrow! KLM and Northwest Airlines have also joined forces to offer you more destinations than ever to the USA from London Heathrow, giving you more opportunity to earn Flying Blue Miles. To find out more, or to book flights, visit the KLM website at www.klm.com. Regardless this should go well for OP miles in the PacNW as they'll have two partners (AS and NW) to get to London without having to transit IAH/EWR/DTW/etc. |
Originally Posted by J.Edward
(Post 8872941)
Main thread on the NWA forumGlad to see at least someone is making use of SEA.
Regardless this should go well for OP miles in the PacNW as they'll have two partners (AS and NW) to get to London without having to transit IAH/EWR/DTW/etc. |
Originally Posted by CO 1E
(Post 8872971)
To what extent has NW scaled back LGW service?
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never mind
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The FT is reporting that CO picked up another set of slots from Alitalia. It hinted these may be "primetime" slots, ie morning slots. This is supposedly in addition to the four pairs they have, so a fifth flight may be on the horizon.
Any speculation on where the fifth flight will be? |
Originally Posted by fozz
(Post 8960234)
The FT is reporting that CO picked up another set of slots from Alitalia. It hinted these may be "primetime" slots, ie morning slots. This is supposedly in addition to the four pairs they have, so a fifth flight may be on the horizon.
Any speculation on where the fifth flight will be? |
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