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-   -   Ticketed to BWI, Standby for DCA/IAD? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/continental-onepass-pre-merger/484290-ticketed-bwi-standby-dca-iad.html)

Xyzzy Oct 19, 2005 11:49 pm


Originally Posted by channa
A "co-terminal" would be sometihng like BWI/WAS, EWR/NYC, SFO/OAK/SJC, LAX/BUR/ONT/SNA or other such combination. A co-terminal is a completely different animal, and carries with it a completely different (and more restrictive) set of rules.

Based on the quoted text in a post far above this one (containing the words "Co-terminal" and the same list of airport codes), Continental sees a "co-terminal" to be the same list of "same point" places that I quoted. I get your point, but I've always seen the same basic list except for UA who used to have OAK and SFO as co-terminals as well.

channa Oct 20, 2005 12:18 am


Originally Posted by xyzzy
Based on the quoted text in a post far above this one (containing the words "Co-terminal" and the same list of airport codes), Continental sees a "co-terminal" to be the same list of "same point" places that I quoted. I get your point, but I've always seen the same basic list except for UA who used to have OAK and SFO as co-terminals as well.

I wouldn't base much on that post. I'm not sure where that other post came from. Not only have I never seen that language before, it's also an incorrect usage of the term "co-terminal." I think it's that poster's guess at the language, as there's no source cited.

Your post, however, was verbatim out of CO's fare rules, and was completely accurate usage.

From CO's contract of carriage, "Co-Terminal means specified cities which may be considered the same point for determination of journey type," which is pretty much all co-terminal is good for. Not standby, just faring.

CO does indeed consider EWR/NYC, WAS/BWI, SFO/OAK/SJC, etc. as co-terminals.

Xyzzy Oct 20, 2005 12:52 am

Interesting! You are the expert :D

By the way, I found an "I" (or was that an "L"?) fare EWR-MDW that has the same standard "same point" language as above but that also has a "Flight Applications" section that says this:

FARE RULES TEXT
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST INCLUDE TRAVEL FROM/TO MDW AIRPORT.
NOTE - STANDBY TRAVEL FOR THIS FARE IS NOT ALLOWED AT ORD AIRPORT.

freeflyin Oct 20, 2005 5:53 am

I have never tried to make this switch,but as a side note,each of my itineraries that are booked to and from BWI show up listed as Washington DC.Could this be a leftover from a time when they were considered co-terminals?

bocastephen Oct 20, 2005 8:01 am

It was quite awhile ago, so I can't recall the fare details from that specific trip, but I re-created it using WAS as the destination, and this is what I found:

NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT-
EFD-HOU EFD-IAH HOU-IAH IAD-DCA MDW-ORD LGA-JFK


The routing for the lowest fare was an X class going to IAD - X class is not published from EWR to DCA, only to IAD. The lowest class published to DCA is U, which prices higher.

A fare class is not published to an airport I want to standby to, yet the fare class I am booked in states the ticketed airport and my requested airport are actually the same point.

So...which over-rides which? The fare rule or the class of service?

channa Oct 20, 2005 10:06 am


Originally Posted by bocastephen
It was quite awhile ago, so I can't recall the fare details from that specific trip, but I re-created it using WAS as the destination, and this is what I found:

NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT-
EFD-HOU EFD-IAH HOU-IAH IAD-DCA MDW-ORD LGA-JFK


The routing for the lowest fare was an X class going to IAD - X class is not published from EWR to DCA, only to IAD. The lowest class published to DCA is U, which prices higher.

A fare class is not published to an airport I want to standby to, yet the fare class I am booked in states the ticketed airport and my requested airport are actually the same point.

So...which over-rides which? The fare rule or the class of service?

Provided there's no language in your fare that says "VALID TO/FROM IAD" or similar, you can standby to/from DCA.

channa Oct 20, 2005 10:07 am


Originally Posted by freeflyin
I have never tried to make this switch,but as a side note,each of my itineraries that are booked to and from BWI show up listed as Washington DC.Could this be a leftover from a time when they were considered co-terminals?

That's just a display name. And for the record, BWI-WAS are co-terminals.

bocastephen Oct 20, 2005 10:38 am


Originally Posted by channa
Provided there's no language in your fare that says "VALID TO/FROM IAD" or similar, you can standby to/from DCA.

Ah, then I got a bad day CO triple-play. A rude EWR counter agent, a disinterested EWR gate agent, and a misinformed phone agent. Next time I make a booking like this, I will print out the fare rules and carry them with me. There was nothing in the rules that restricted the fare to IAD.

Well, at least I burned off the starbucks pumpkin spice latte while walking from CO's IAD gate back to the main terminal :rolleyes:

emj Oct 20, 2005 2:16 pm


Originally Posted by channa
I wouldn't base much on that post. I'm not sure where that other post came from. Not only have I never seen that language before, it's also an incorrect usage of the term "co-terminal." I think it's that poster's guess at the language, as there's no source cited.

I'm guessing y'all are speaking of my earlier post. I didn't mention my source, assuming that fare rules are generally presented in a consistent manner. However, comparing against co.com's version of the fare rules, I see that things are different.

XA7IMSN, EWR-WAS, from expertflyer.com:

CO-TERMINALS
-THE FOLLOWING GROUPS OF CITIES ARE CONSIDERED TO BE THE SAME POINT EFD - HOU - IAH, IAD - DCA, LGA - JFK, MDW - ORD.
Same fare, as listed on both Orbitz and co.com doesn't have this co-terminal language. However, all three sources include:

C. UNLESS RESTRICTED BY THE FARE CHARGED- WHEN TICKETED FROM/TO CHI/HOU/NYC/WAS- PASSENGERS MAY CHECK-IN AND STANDBY FROM/TO ONE OFAIRPORTS LISTED BELOW. CITY - AIRPORT CHI - MDW/ORD HOU - HOU/IAH NYC - JFK/LGA WAS - DCA/IAD APPLICABLE FARE DIFFERENCE AND/OR CHG FEE AS OUTLINED IN A AND B ABOVE WILL APPLY.
Only ExpertFlyer and Orbitz (not co.com) include the following under "combinability" or "combinations":

NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT- EFD-HOU EFD-IAH HOU-IAH IAD-DCA MDW-ORD LGA-JFK
Fare rules are complicated enough already! I'm thinking these differences must just be nuances in presentation, but it seems like they could lead to misinterpretations in some cases... :confused:

sbm12 Oct 20, 2005 5:06 pm


Originally Posted by emj
So, my understanding is that fares between EWR-ORD and EWR-MDW are basically the same, and changing between the two airports not considered a routing change. Same with EWR-DCA and EWR-IAD, for example.

I got screwed on this once in ORD. Apparently CO puts a lot of fares in that also include the "This is restricted to MDW" or "ORD" depending on the fare. I understand that they are trying to protect the ORD margins since there is no competition with SouthWest. But having always heard about CoTerms (and previously being able to change my flights w/o issue) and then showing up at the airport for the earlier flight out of ORD and told that it would cost $100, or a race on the L to make it down to MDW to get home, I was not too happy.

Another annoyance was that no one could produce for me a copy of the rule in effect on my ticket. They kept saying that I had bought whatever fare it was, but no one could show me what the rules for that fare were -- VERY frustrating.

So if you are flying on CO to a CoTerm destination, make sure you actually read the fare rules (and you can only see them before you purchase, not after).

S.

SPN Lifer Oct 20, 2005 5:44 pm


Originally Posted by bocastephen
I suggest researching your fare basis and rules before heading to the airport - possibly even printing out what you find that shows it's permissable (same fare class published, co-terminals allowed) in case you run into an issue.

This was my thought as I read this thread.

Being "right" means little if you can't do anything about it.

If you plan on applying little-used rules, it is wise to have them in writing. :)

Most supervisors know how to read.

otralot Oct 20, 2005 7:15 pm


Originally Posted by SPN Lifer

Most supervisors know how to read.

reading and understanding and then acting are three seperate and sometimes unrelated acts


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