manwillneverfly

To MEM FA:
Thanks for your thoughtful contribution as an "insider". FYI, I already knew that FAs can't do upgrades inside the plane. It was at the end of the flight that I simply asked a first-class FA why seats were flown empty, when at least one elite passenger had been misled at the gate and denied an entitled upgrade.

What do you (and other airline "insiders" reading FT) recommend that elite flyers do to minimize the "lazy GA" occurrences?

In the case I described, the boarding process was about half-way complete (still plenty of time for the GA at the computer to print out a new boarding pass) when I was told an upgrade was not available, and I took this to mean all first-class seats were occupied.

Perhaps I should have asked a more specific question than "is an upgrade available." What if the passenger says "has first class checked-in full?" This is a yes-or-no question that would be easy to answer at any time -- shouldn't the GA be obligated to give an accurate answer?

Remember, elite-level passengers are people who have gone to some effort and expense in being "loyal" to the airline, which in turn has made the legally binding promise that unoccupied first class seats will be offered for upgrades.



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Wright Brothers Were Wrong

Columbia04

I think the problem here is the point when a ticket holder is considered a "no-show." Obviously, failure to check in 30 minutes prior to flight makes a person a no-show, freeing his seat (in Y or F) to standbyers. However, when is the GA allowed to consider a checked-in passenger a no-show? Unfortunately, I think the answer is the moment the aircraft door is closed ... more than once have I stepped onto an aircraft (even having checked in 24 hours before) literally seconds before the door was closed (it's always nice to be addressed by your first name by a patiently waiting GA as you jog past her and down the jetway ...).

Come to think of it, the last time I flew in F, I actually didn't take my seat in F until AFTER the door had closed because I was hanging out back in Y to keep a friend company. It occured to me that the FA or GA might have seen the empty seat and assumed I had disappeared.

It is simply not reasonable to expect a GA to take away an F seat from somebody who could possibly be 30 feet from the gate finishing a bowel movement. The only people whom s/he could truly assume to be no-shows are misconnects, and again it would be quite a bit of trouble to go through each F passenger's record and check if indeed there is NO chance s/he will arrive in time for the connection.

So my approach is that if I am holding a boarding pass for a seat, it's MY seat regardless of when I choose to board, if at all. That's why I am incredilous over stories of pax buying an extra seat for privacy only to have it snatched away due to overbooking.

Kaeokai

I think the rules state that you must be at the gate 15 minutes before departure or you lose your seat. If you are not on the aircraft by ten 'til departure, I think your seat if fair game.

Ten minutes should be plenty of time to battlefield-upgrade the right pax (especially since the advent of the scannable BP)....

K

BeautyMark

At the risk of sounding callous, if you really want a first class seat you should purchase a first class seat. It seems as if the amount of time spent checking loads, stress, seething when flights fly with empty seats, etc. is not worth it. And an upgrade is a perk not a priority, not to say that it is undeserved but it is certianly not a given right to which you are entiled a voucher.
Gate Agents do not purposely leave open seats nor are they too "lazy" to check. I would suspect that they have a millon other things going on and in the grand scheme of things an upgrade is not at the top of the list.

LUVSWA

I have never been denied an empty seat on CO or NW, however, I have seen seats go empty on a NW flight from DCA due only to the ineptitude of the GA. No doubt that it was a busy night and a full flight, but his attitude when I requested a companion upgrade said it all. There were too many people already on the list, so don't bother.

I didn't bother, but two seats went empty. They in fact had been assigned to passengers who were on the plane, but the upgrade orders weren't given to the FA until 30 seconds before he closed the door. Unfortunately, due to strict security rules to/from DCA, the pax were not allowed to move until wheels-up + 30 minutes. One did move, the other who was to be seated next to me didn't move...and as it turned out was seated next to my wife in coach and had offered her his seat (ironic) but they were having too much fun chatting and laughing to move.

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Randy
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HH Gold; SPG Gold; NW Gold; UA PremEx

iluv2fly

Wow, and I thought United's agents were bad once in a while...

Glad to be an elite on UA!!

channa

The GA knows who boarded the plane, this is not the issue. The issue is when someone doesn't board the plane, and his/her seat isn't reassigned to someone who did.

Columbia04

How does the GA know exactly who boarded the plane until s/he has the time to go through all the boarding stubs?

Also, I have never seen the "you must be in the boarding area 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure" enforced. Some small flights running a few minutes late don't even begin boarding until then.

channa

With a gate reader, this data is real time. In fact it displays on the screen (e.g., "F boarded 7 of 12, Y boarded 38 of 108").

However, even without a gate reader, the GA (or another GA) has to enter the stub data into the computer before the manifest is printed and before the door is closed. They must match the headcount in the computer with the FA's headcount from the plane.

So, when the GA is about to print the final manifest, they off-load unboarded pax, then should process Elite upgrades, board them into F, print the manifest, and bring the manifest and upgraded F BP stubs onto the plane.

I honestly don't see much of an excuse for not following procedure, other than laziness. The fact that this has been coming up recently indicates it's a growing problem.

justforfun

You've got it dead-on. The only excuse for empty F seats is a ga's indifference or inability to properly perform his/her duties. Having worked for an airline in a former life, I personally know that seat assignments can be easily adjusted just prior to door's being closed by the ga. In fact, I as a ga, have walked through an aircraft AFTER the final manifest has been printed, upgraded a few poor souls on board for whatever reason, and then adjusted (but not always) any upgrades in the computer after the plane departed and had more time to do so.

not a fan

Okay,

The explanation for the empty BF seats ( contract mandated or FAA dictated breaks) made sense until my return flight from ewr-nrt. Once again I noticed empty seats in BF . ( I tried to BUY a BF upgrade but was told it was unavailable). Anyway, while the plane was still on the ground, doors open, I noticed the FAs had reserved the last two aisles in coach by draping the jackets over the seats, putting their bags in the chairs and putting the tray tables down).

We were on the ground for a bit waiting for about 30 connecting passengers. When those passngers started to board I heard one FA in the back say to another " Oh no! We may have to give up these seats) They then stood in the back of the plane, "guarding" their seats to prevent anyone from sitting there.

It made me wonder then why the airline reserves the BF seats for FA breaks if the FAs then can reserve entire additional rows for their breaks. ( I KNOW there were people in middle seats on the flight who would have appreciated the aisle seats on those rows in the back. In fact, at the check-in counter, I was told that the only seats available were middle seats).

This is NOT a criticism of FAs. I AM trying to understand the rules for those ever elusive upgrades.

[This message has been edited by not a fan (edited Dec 09, 2003).]

jfulcher

You sir, are a jack---. You have your butt parked in a seat, deal with it. So you had some meetings ohh no. They are on their feet the whole time they deserve a break! I'd rather have a rested FA than have one whose attitude is going to reflect that she has been on her feet 10-12 hours. If you don't like it, book a F seat and don't worry about it. I'm sure you can sleep just fine in your Y seat, you can't even compare your silly little day of meetings and flying to 10-12 hours of on your feet serving people.

apirchik

Most airlines have crew rest cabins stuck in unused places on the plane and not in F or Y seats. This way the crew gets flat beds with full privacy protection from the passnegers and the passengers don't see empty seats. I find it quite an absurd that the 777 is equipped with a flight deck crew rest cabin, but nothing for the FAs - which makes them take 4 seats in BF.

BeautyMark

Some airlines have crew sleeper bunks located in the ceiling or other various places on the aircraft. Continental does not have flight attendant sleeper bunks. The 777 has 2 sleeper bunks available for pilots only. This is located near the cockpit in the front of the plane. Continental has decided that rather than install sleeper bunks it is more "cost effective" to block 4 business first seats on flights over 8 hours.
The following information is directly out of the flight attendant contract and maybe it will answer som questions for everyone.

CHAPTER 3-9

1. On all aircraft, four crew rest seats are to be blocked for crew rest. These seats
are not to be assigned to customers, even in a Class A oversale. The designated seats will have a curtian provided for privacy. Signs or makeshift curtians are not permitted. Crew rest seats will not be required for flights of less than eight hours(8:00)

2.Rest breaks will be approximately evenly divided among crewmembers and will occur during non service periods. However, in no case on flights scheduled for eight hours or more will the rest period be less than one hour. On flights scheduled for 12 hours or more rest breaks will not be less than 2 hours in duration.

4. Flight attendants are to sit upright in the assigned crew rest seats. Flight attendants are not permitted to sleep on the floor.

So basically because the company decided not to spend extra money and install bunks on the new planes, business first seats are being utilized for crew rest rather then upgrades.

apirchik

And I thought TSA said curtains are not allowed on planes anymore...