How are Elites of the Same Class Ranked for Upgrades?
 

A few years back, when I first made elite as a Silver, I was told by somebody at CO that among competing elites within a particular level, the ugrades go to the elites with the higher/highest elite miles from the preceding year (so, if there were two Silvers vying for one last FC seat, the Silver with 40K miles will beat out the Silver with 26K miles). I know that the rules have changed in that now there is consideration given to fare class and time of booking and anything else that CO is not telling the flying public, but - hypothetically - if you have two members of the same elite level that are the same in all respects (fare classs, time of purchase, etc.) except for the number of elite miles from the preceding year, is that factor still used to determine who goes first in the upgrade pecking order?

This may or may not be important to me, for I have one confirmed trip in late December that will put me over 75K to maintain my Plat status (I will actually get to about 76K). I have a whole bunch of other trips brewing, and I'm trying to figure out I should schedule some for this year (and pad my elite mileage total) or take some time off from traveling and just wait until 2004 to do these trips.

I have NEVER heard this before.

As far as I know the breaking point is tickting time and/ or check in time.

From a database standpoint it would be hard to belive they would keep a useless data like "last years EQM" available just to determine "who is next" for an upgrade. Especially when there are so many easier ways as stated above

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Viele Grüße

Oliver

My understanding is (and anyone should feel free to refute me on this):

1. For EUA, first be elite status, then by fare class, then by date and time of ticket purchase.

2. For upgrades at the airport (ie clearing the waitlist), first by elite status, then by fare class, then by checkin time.

In theory and as published policy, that would be correct.

In practice, it is anybody's guess...

http://www.continental.com/onepass/e.../automatic.asp

First paragraph, first sentence.

Status > Type of ticket > Fare Class > Date and Time of Reservation.

It really is anybody's guess how upgrades are given out not. Evidience is very strong that fare class has priority over stauts.CO just continues to lie and stonewall.

You certainly cannot believe the web page. It states "date and time of reservation". I have personally had two execs of CO tell me specifically it is not "Date and time of Reservation". It is date of ticket PURCHASE.

What evidence? Do you mean the fact that an occasional Plat did not get an upgrade on an oversold, high-volume business route on a Friday afternoon? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

I'm not saying they're not screwing with this, but I'd like to see something more than what we've seen so far. Show me a Plat who's Silver high-fare colleague on the same flight was EUA'd while the Plat sat in coach on a lower fare that was bought weeks earlier.

My personal experience on this shows it's random. I've been with a companion (same status, same fare, same date of issue, my ticket usually issued seconds before hers), and been split by EUA three times this year. Twice I got it, while she didn't; once she did while I didn't. In all cases, we were reunited in F at the airport.

The amount you paid had nothing to do with your upgrade unless there are no elite members, or other pax with some type of upgrade cert, etc.

The upgrade list is done by elite level and within the elite level it is done by time of check-in. The computer creates the list and the agents have no control over the order.

The way I know this is simple, if you have a paper ticket purchased at a TA, the fare that you paid is not shown in your reservation. So, the value of your ticket isn't known.

Now, that might change in the future. Someday everything will be eticket and then value might play a role, but not now...

The amount you paid had nothing to do with your upgrade unless there are no elite members, or other pax with some type of upgrade cert, etc.
The upgrade list is done by elite level and within the elite level it is done by time of check-in. The computer creates the list and the agents have no control over the order.

The way I know this is simple, if you have a paper ticket purchased at a TA, the fare that you paid is not shown in your reservation. So, the value of your ticket isn't known.

Now, that might change in the future. Someday everything will be eticket and then value might play a role, but not now...

The first part of your statement is what CO wants you to believe. Read:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/009450.html

Ever hear the term 'where there is smoke there is fire'? There are too many incidinces to be coincidence. IMO, EUA has been manipulated by CO for their own reason. I'm fine with that. Just tell me the rules.It can't be a secret if they want my money.
My wife and I tried a test. We bought "B" tickets EWR-IAH-MSY about 60 days before a flight. Both EWR-IAH legs were mid- afternoon. Hers was on a Thursday, mine on a Saturday, both 767s. I watched the seat allocations carefully. Both were A9FO going into the EUA period. At 5 days,out they went to A2F0 and stayed that way. So we followed all the rules. Bought more expensive tickets, way out, and were Plats. Yet EUA passed us both. You will have a hard time convincing either of us that there is not manipulation going on.
Once again, this is fine. Just tell me the rules. Because of the manipulation, we have flown 95% of our segments on NW where the EUAs work like clockwork at the 5 day mark. We were both 100% on NW (and mostly at their lowest fare (K)level. That is the way that the CO EUA is suppost to work. Clearly it does not.
I'm not sure how to address your comment on the ticket not having the fare on it. Of what relevance is that? Your PNR in the CO computer has your fare class in it. That is all that is required for anyone (the CO computer or the gate agent) to decide who gets the upgrade.

Well, I don't know much about the EUA system because I don't have to.

But I am 100% that upgrades that occur at the gate have NOTHING to do with what you paid, unless there are no other upgrade eligible pax and they need to move people up for weights and balances, etc.

The fare class is in the PNR but the VALUE of the ticket is not (for a paper ticket). A corp travel department might have a negotiated fare in a class or service like "b" for example and that fare could be a lot lower than someone else's "b" fare. It just doesn't make a difference...EUA, I don't know, but at the airport, that is the deal.

So maybe you can answer this question. Two weeks ago I was booked on a SEA-EWR afternoon flight on something less than a HoKeY fare (I forget which letter, though). I'm Plat, but nothing came through for me at anybody's window since, with the exception of 1B, the whole FC cabin was booked solid several days out (according to Seatmap.com, when it still existed). I checked in at the airport about two hours before departure and was told that I was number two for an UG behind another Plat, and that I had just bumped a Gold from the number two slot. I then hooked up for a few beers with a central NJ acquaintance who just happened to be flying home on the same airplane (scary small world stuff -- wholly fortuitous that we were where we were and where we were going at the same time). He already had a FC ticket that he purchased at full price, and he told me that when he checked in at an airport kiosk about 3 1/2 hours before departure there were two seats left in FC: 1B and another seat.

So, what gives? If two hours before departure I was number two for an UG, why didn't I get it if there were two seats remaining just outside the three hour window (unless somebody purchased a FC ticket before I checked in, but come on!)? And why didn't my UG clear at the three hour mark?

A lot of questions (they teach you that in law school and twenty years later you still don't forget). Do you have any answers?

Gracias.

[This message has been edited by SJU Abogado (edited 11-05-2003).]

[This message has been edited by SJU Abogado (edited 11-05-2003).]

Actually, it is a pretty simple answer. The seat map means nothing.

For discussion, let's say we are talking about an aircraft with 8 FC seats. The flight goes on sale and 8 people buy actual FC tickets BUT don't get a seat pre-assigned. The bucket will show full but the seat map will show empty because none of the seats have been assigned. So, it is very typical to see empty seat maps but full buckets.

Also, here are the most common reason why EUA upgrades fail:

No frequent flyer number in PNR.

No longer an elite member.

Name in PNR do not EXACTLY match name in Onepass system. If name in Onepass says Michael and PNR says Mike, the system is not able to verify!

The PNR was not ticketed or the ETKT is out of sync (change was made and change fee was not paid for example)

If there is more than 1 name in the PNR and the pax have different elite levels, the lower elite level will apply to the entire PNR (book different reservations!)

If there is more than 1 name in the PNR and one of the pax is not elite, the WHOLE PNR will be skipped! (book different reservations!)

These are my handy tips for the day!!!

Two seats open on the seatmap doesn't necessarily mean two seats are available. What happens is that at 4 hours before departure, the seatmap is under "airport control." That means that only the airport or online checkin can change seats. So, if EUA runs at say 3 - 3.5 hours out, those pax upgraded will get their upgrade, but with no seat assignments. Their seats will be assigned at the airport (or checkin).

This just happened to me the other day, with an EUA run 3 hours out. EUA ran, email received, F showed in my itinerary online, but no seat assignment. Seat map showed about 8 seats open, but reservations couldn't give me one, and since I had already checked in, I had to wait til I got to the airport. So, if you were perhaps not upgraded and viewed a half-open F cabin, you may think you have a good shot at an upgrade when you really don't.

Channa -

You are absolutely correct! When a flight is restricted (it's called "ASA Restricted" and by the way, ASA=Airport Sales Agent) EUA cannot override the system and will process the upgrade without assigning a seat.

Some flights will be restricted earlier than others because they are oversold or if they think they might become oversold.

Thanks for the feedback. I still don't understand how the whole thing works, but perhaps I'm not supposed to (plus, I suspect that CO doesn't want me - or anybody else - to know the whole story behind UGs). The bottom line is that I'll just continue to book my coach seats on an aisle in an exit or bulkhead row so I don't have a person in front of me crushing my laptop, and hope that I get moved up to FC without obsessing over it (I am working on such a wonderful track record this year - virtually every CO flight has been an UG - that I am a bit spoiled).