logic...or lack thereof
 

hey everyone-
long time lurker, first time poster. anyway, with all of the discussion going on about the new program rules, particularly with its emphasis on "Y" full fares, i couldn't help but wonder...

if there indeed is this contingent of travelers with a proclivity (and the means) for purchasing full fare tickets (>>$1000), aren't these the sorts of people who just sport the money and buy a first class ticket anyway? i mean, who DOES buy first class tickets? and if you're willing to shell out $1200 for a COACH unrestricted ticket from LA to NY, why not just spend the $2200 and guarantee yourself a first class seat? how pissed would you be if you paid for a full fare seat, and you were stuck in a middle seat and as your consolation prize you get 1,000 free miles. 1000 miles?!! how about a free bottle of booze so i can numb my nerves pulling out my eyelashes in frustration!

also, i am very tempted to purchase one of those long trumpet/horns and and play a fanfare when the start EliteAccess boarding to accompany the cavalcade of continental royalty eagerly proceeding to their seat on that lil' ol 737.

well either way, i want to know who these people are that are buying full fare tickets so liberally...if they have so much money to throw around, maybe they want to contribute to my tuition bill and invest in a surgeon-in-training :-)

i might not be a business school graduate, but this whole move just sounds so ill-conceived. i used to take such pride in continental...i used to rave about the elite program to my friends and family...but alas, all good things must come to an end.

cheers

one more thing i forgot to ask...

is there *anyone* at continental to talk to or write a letter to about this stuff who actually cares and will do something to show that s/he really cares about your frustration(s)? or are they all just apathetic about this program change?

Welcome to FlyerTalk.

I agree it's illogical -- to drive away your loyal customers, those customers who were willing to pay more to choose Continental. They definitely are out of touch with reality.

What they don't understand is four-fold:
1) That passengers often buy a mix of fares throughout the year.
2) Low-cost competition has brought sanity to many last-minute fares. They can be more, but they don't have to be sooo much more.
3) Pax who buy full-fare, last-minute tickets do so because they have to. They pay a premium and choose a carrier based on schedule, not loyalty.
4) Pax who are loyal to a company cannot be easily replaced.

But, when this all plays out over time, CO may find that they do indeed have a captive number of passengers willing to pay high fares to go non-stop to where they want to go. They can rename the operation "Air New York," as they transition themselves into a Newark-based regional jet operator.

what really astounds me is when i think about all the big important business meetings they must have had when they not only came up with this idea but ended up following through with it...i can understand entertaining the idea, but don't you think a group of executives and professionals at continental would have the insight (and foresight for that matter) to realize everything we've been talking about over the last two weeks and conclude that maybe it's not the wisest business idea?? i wish i had access to their business figures to see what percentage of their customers pay full fares, because maybe there's something that the rest of us don't really know and there may indeed be this market of people who are too financially irresponsible (or have money to burn....hence the "contribute to my tuition" remark) to realize that they're paying $1200 for a ticket when everyone else is paying $200 for the same exact seat, same meal, same hassles, and so forth.

and maybe i'm having a little george bush "fuzzy math" problem....but i pay on the average $250 for my cross country non-refundable tickets. if i have to cancel the flight, i might not get a refund but i'm only out $250. and if i need to change the flight (which i presume is one of the benefits of having an unrestricted ticket)--that would be a $100 change fee, plus any difference in fare (just to be extreme, let's pretend the same itinerary is now $550...and i'm not used to seeing fares rise by $300 for the same flights typically, but i might be wrong). so even on an unrestricted ticket, i could change my itinerary like anyone else, but even still, the ticket only adds up to 250+100+300= $650 total. even if i made ANOTHER change, with penalties it still wouldn't cost as much as an unrestricted fare. so, back to my original question.....why would anyone (except in certain unique circumstances) buy a full fare ticket, and regardless, what percentage of continental's business actually comes from such people???

sorry, but i've been thinking about this whole program change for the past two weeks and it's just mind boggling....

I suspect most of the 2300 fare purchaseres are those who need to be somewhere at the last minute to close a multimillion dollar deal and the 2300 is irrelevant. OR, the person is a consultant and someone else is willing to pay for it.

Someone else pays for it (Business) and a Y is basically the only way to justify a 'coach' seat to your company. They all just wink at the company travel coordinator on the way out like this http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

yeah...but those people don't need to bother paying a full fare coach seat...they can afford the first class ticket.

i'm trying to understand who these people are that buy these full fare coach tickets...anyone who buys it under the circumstances you just described likely doesn't really care as much about airline loyalty if time is that much of the essence...schedules/routing will take priority in those cases, carrier choice is secondary.

my point is that anyone who can regularly afford a full coach fare is likely in the financial position to sport a few extra bucks and buy a first class seat....this whole phenomenon just doesn't make sense to me from a logical standpoint...and i really don't understand why these types of customers, who probably travel sporadically and spontaneously, would be the prime target of Continental's marketing. to me, they sound like a tiny, unreliable market. but perhaps i'm wrong and there's this enclave of flyers hidden in houston who love to purchase Y fares on a regular basis.

have any of you written to continental customer care about the changes, and if so, have you heard back from them?

hmmm.....i'm glad to know that at a time where the economy is bottoming out and more and more people are losing their jobs, that there are companies out there frivolously dispensing thousands of dollars on behalf of their employees for exorbitantly high priced fares for no good reason. it's just ridiculous.

People buy Y fares for various reasons.

For those who are already elite, the confirmed upgrade at time of purchase is an obvious motivating factor.

Others, including many of the elites who may be buying these fares, value flexibility. A few $100 change fees can eat up the difference between a lower fare and full Y. And, of course, a full Y can be refunded if you decide not to take the trip or change your plans in the middle of your trip.

Finally, don't forget that many firms collect an administration fee on reimbursable expenses not included in an expense schedule. 10% of a Y or D fare is much more than 10% of an S fare.

I need flexibility and I want FC. I am constantly changing and missing flights. That means that I buy the flexible D fare, unless Y is cheaper. In two rare instances during the last year, I have bought full A. In any case, I can not recall the last time that I actually flew on my originally ticketed flight.

jh

I am of the same view. Incidentally, the difference between Y and D and A is often much less than the example in your post. Sometimes it is as little as $50 or $100 between each fare class. In that case, it really would be foolish not to step up a few dollars for the confirmed seat.

However, busybodies have tried to place a stigma on paying for FC. So some travelers resort to various subterfuges, hand in hand with the airlines, to obtain FC through automatic upgrades from Full Y or by buying fares that are designated as "business," but which are first class (CO's domestic D fare).

This stigma is the only reason I can think of that anyone who purchased a last-minute ticket or who needed flexibility would not just buy the first class ticket outright. Some people are so cowed that they will sit at the full Y without stepping up to FC.

jh

I think thats lots of us folk on the CO board have been wondering and thinking the same as you. Heck if I could afford to buy full fare F tickets all the time I would look into fractionals and the hell with CO or any commercial carrier for that matter. A real first clas flight. A fractional would most likely be considerdably more.

A lot of times if you need a last minute fare or one that is refundable, the only qualifying fare in a market will be a Y fare.

Most businesses only allow domestic coach travel.

If the travel is client billable, I suspect that it is more convenient to pay more and get a fully refundable ticket rather than getting a nonrefundable ticket and bill for a cancelled trip.

This is very true. The company I worked for just hired a consulting company that has a travel policy of - "any flight more then 2 hours is purchased in 1st class". I wish I had it so good!


[This message has been edited by CraigS (edited 10-12-2003).]

I'll throw my hat in here. I somtimes end up pruchasing Y fares for business related travel. My travel policy at work is that anything less than transcontinental or internatinal is coach. So, that's why I don't just buy first class tickets all the time instead of Y. I do buy Y sometimes, depending on the trip, because my trips tend (1) to be last minute and (2) change from minute to minute and only a Y ticket provides that kind of flexibility. Generally my business travel is billed to the client but I do try to be sensitive and book the ticket that in the end run offers the best value proposition while producing the required degree of flexbility--sometimes that's a Y-ticket and sometimes not.

Cheers,
Brooklynflyer

Having the flexibility of a Y fare is very important for some business people who need to get to places on-time, for example.

These days, it's kind of lame to be late for a business meeting.. esp if it's flight-related. If you're on a refundable ticket and your original flight is delayed for some reason, you refund it and buy something else that's flying out on time.