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DCA-CLE now only COEX?
I just checked out flights for tomorrow and noticed that all flights are now on the ERJs. In fact, the ever popular and packed 06:30 flight to CLE on the 735 was downsized to an ERJ-135! I know fleet utilization is a complex process, but I have a very hard time understanding a 75 seat reduction in capacity on a flight that has a high percentage of full fare passengers.
Just a sign of the time I suppose, and before anyone can say it, I do realize that I should expect this out of CLE. |
Originally Posted by MBM3
In fact, the ever popular and packed 06:30 flight to CLE on the 735 was downsized to an ERJ-135!
I know this will seem strange, but I actually heard about this specifically. A few nights ago, I was on CO 10 (read: lots of time to stand around and bother the FA's), and one of the FA's mentioned that many, many, many of the CLE-based 737 runs would be downsized to ERJ status, including some very popular and full flights. Somehow, she actually mentioned, "For instance, there is a 6:30 DCA flight that is a virtual sell-out, and even that is becoming an ERJ." She often works ex-CLE (though based at IAH) because of family there, so she says she keeps up with CO flight ops and plans for that hub. Well, here is some good news -- and I'd love your feedback to see if you've heard the same thing. She said that the CLE - LGW flight, a 757 for years now as you know, will soon be replaced by a 762. I asked if this was because of better-than-expected loads or higher yields, but she said, "No..." and sort of trailed off. Finally, she said that she was hearing more and more flack from pilots/air crews about operational performance and suitability of the 757 for a market such as CLE-LGW. Obviously, there have been REAMS of discussion here on these boards about the EWR-based 757 flights to Europe, which are only marginally shorter than CLE - LGW. Still, even those EWR - Europe 757 flights (such as Berlin-TXL, in particular) are coming under fire from some quarters, whereas the CLE - LGW has been going for years. I brought that up, too (the fact that CLE - LGW has a history behind it now, whereas EWR - mainland Europe was still an open question) -- and my question was "So, why doesn't CO dedicate once of its very scarce 762s or 764s to EWR - Berlin, rather than CLE - LGW?" And THAT question, apparently, DOES turn on loads: CLE - LGW has a more established ridership than EWR to Berlin-TXL. But here's my take: BOTH of my roundtrips on EWR - TXL have been totally sold out, both directions, with the exception of one no-show in BF on one leg because of a mis-connect. Anyway, true or not, I thought you might appreciate this tidbit (albeit overheard from a FA on a long flight, which induces gossip as it is). I always appreciate your contributions to the board, even as an IAH-based flyer, so I thought I'd give you the very limited info I overheard. Actually -- and please don't flame me for this, anyone! -- it sometimes seems that CLE-based flyers get the short-end of the stick when it comes to new info, new flights, and CO ops gossip (but maybe that's a good thing). Regards, LawFlyer |
DCA to RJ ----Living in CLE myself I hate reading about stuff like this....
But I would love to see that 762 at CLE for LGW flights!!! |
The DCA-CLE 735 has been off the schedule since early spring this year. The 3:15PM CLE-DCA used to be 73G and is now ERJ-145. There are no mainline options to/from CLE to DCA at all on any day.
CO has also pulled the majority of the 737s from BWI-CLE routing for the new schedule. The early flight to CLE (once a 757-200, then 739, will soon be ERJ-145, leaving only the 6:20 PM to CLE, a 738. All the rest are RJs. From CLE-BWI, the only mainline flight that will remain will be the 3:30 PM a 733. IAD-CLE is all expressjet. CLE is less and less attractive for me out of the 3 DC area airports, as I prefer mainline equipment, unless the fare is too good to pass up. WASJETBOY |
IAD-CLE is all expressjet. CLE is less and less attractive for me out of the 3 DC area airports, as I prefer mainline equipment, unless the fare is too good to pass up. We're talking about a 40-min flight here. I fly IAD-CLE regularly... and have been even before CO dropped mainline out of BWI/DCA... simply because IAD is easier and closer for me. For such a short flight, I couldn't possibly care what type of aircraft I am on... what's the incentive? Even regular F fliers aren't in the sky long enough to notice the legroom in back :p Obviously, there have been REAMS of discussion here on these boards about the EWR-based 757 flights to Europe, which are only marginally shorter than CLE - LGW. Still, even those EWR - Europe 757 flights (such as Berlin-TXL, in particular) are coming under fire from some quarters, whereas the CLE - LGW has been going for years. I brought that up, too (the fact that CLE - LGW has a history behind it now, whereas EWR - mainland Europe was still an open question) -- and my question was "So, why doesn't CO dedicate once of its very scarce 762s or 764s to EWR - Berlin, rather than CLE - LGW?" |
Originally Posted by LawFlyer
MBM3,
I know this will seem strange, but I actually heard about this specifically. A few nights ago, I was on CO 10 (read: lots of time to stand around and bother the FA's), and one of the FA's mentioned that many, many, many of the CLE-based 737 runs would be downsized to ERJ status, including some very popular and full flights. Somehow, she actually mentioned, "For instance, there is a 6:30 DCA flight that is a virtual sell-out, and even that is becoming an ERJ." She often works ex-CLE (though based at IAH) because of family there, so she says she keeps up with CO flight ops and plans for that hub. That is an interesting tidbit. I guess they need to keep the 737s on the long haul flights to the west coast. I wonder if the IAH flights will also downsize to the bitty birds - the equipment for the 06:30 flight to CLE used to originate in IAH. Well, here is some good news -- and I'd love your feedback to see if you've heard the same thing. She said that the CLE - LGW flight, a 757 for years now as you know, will soon be replaced by a 762. I asked if this was because of better-than-expected loads or higher yields, but she said, "No..." and sort of trailed off. Finally, she said that she was hearing more and more flack from pilots/air crews about operational performance and suitability of the 757 for a market such as CLE-LGW. I think they would upgrade to a 762 purely for the additional cargo capacity as they truck a lot to EWR. The impact of the recent 752 range issues might reach this flight, but I guess we will wait and see. Obviously, there have been REAMS of discussion here on these boards about the EWR-based 757 flights to Europe, which are only marginally shorter than CLE - LGW. Still, even those EWR - Europe 757 flights (such as Berlin-TXL, in particular) are coming under fire from some quarters, whereas the CLE - LGW has been going for years. I brought that up, too (the fact that CLE - LGW has a history behind it now, whereas EWR - mainland Europe was still an open question) -- and my question was "So, why doesn't CO dedicate once of its very scarce 762s or 764s to EWR - Berlin, rather than CLE - LGW?" The decision will be based on the bottom line - sold out flights do not necessarily mean they are making money. And THAT question, apparently, DOES turn on loads: CLE - LGW has a more established ridership than EWR to Berlin-TXL. But here's my take: BOTH of my roundtrips on EWR - TXL have been totally sold out, both directions, with the exception of one no-show in BF on one leg because of a mis-connect. Anyway, true or not, I thought you might appreciate this tidbit (albeit overheard from a FA on a long flight, which induces gossip as it is). I always appreciate your contributions to the board, even as an IAH-based flyer, so I thought I'd give you the very limited info I overheard. Actually -- and please don't flame me for this, anyone! -- it sometimes seems that CLE-based flyers get the short-end of the stick when it comes to new info, new flights, and CO ops gossip (but maybe that's a good thing). I have not seen or heard any good CLE rumours in awhile. The last I heard were: 1) LGW doing year round. 2) LGW flight to be changed to AMS for increased connectivity amongst the two networks 3) Weekly seasonal HNL flights Regards, LawFlyer |
Originally Posted by cptlflyer
We're talking about a 40-min flight here. I fly IAD-CLE regularly... and have been even before CO dropped mainline out of BWI/DCA... simply because IAD is easier and closer for me. For such a short flight, I couldn't possibly care what type of aircraft I am on... what's the incentive? Even regular F fliers aren't in the sky long enough to notice the legroom in back :p
In this case my issue is the fact that the flight sells out very quick and there are not a heck of a lot of options for returning home. The reduction of available seats is nuts and will drive people to US. I've said it before, but the 762 has a whopping THREE more seats on it than the 725 (in CO's configuration). Irrational stigma aside, what exactly makes a swap such "good news" for CLE? More BF seats, granted, which is probably what makes the swap worthwhile for CO... but still not sure what all the excitement is regarding a 767 and Cleveland air service. Beyond the increased BF cabin, I think it is good news as I prefer the 2-3-2 seating, the seatback entertainment system, and additional room to move around the cabin. Plus, I would take pride in knowing we can and will support a widebody to Europe. |
And a 762 will give CLE spotters something to look forward too besides the FedEx A300's.
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Service to our Capital
In this case my issue is the fact that the flight sells out very quick and there are not a heck of a lot of options for returning home. The reduction of available seats is nuts and will drive people to US.
Since I have made many trips to DCA, I can affirm that Co's Sat schedule is pathetic and had made me use US, and I can tell you that 45 minutes in an ERJ is much better than 45 minutes in a US CRJ :( |
Originally Posted by cptlflyer
I've said it before, but the 762 has a whopping THREE more seats on it than the 725 (in CO's configuration). Irrational stigma aside, what exactly makes a swap such "good news" for CLE? More BF seats, granted, which is probably what makes the swap worthwhile for CO... but still not sure what all the excitement is regarding a 767 and Cleveland air service.
Even though this board has talked to death the subject of the 752's Y-class seats being substantially the same as widebody-Y seats in trans-Atlantic operations, the fact remains that a double-aisle configuration DOES make it easier to access the lavs, move around the cabin, store luggage in the middle overhead (which are non-existent on the 752s), get a BF seat at the last minute (which I have to do all the time), stand up in a Y seat without bumping your head...and the list goes on. So, even though the actual number of total seats is very similar on both the 752 and 762, that's not the real consideration from a comfort perspective. Judging from my outlook when we are "up-gauged" from a narrow-body to a wide-body on domestic runs, I'm sure CLE pax are bound to feel the same when up-gauged on such a long-distance run. I suppose that IAH pax are a little spoiled because we do get, almost without fail, 777 service to LGW, CDG, and sometimes even to AMS...So, yes, I thought that CLE pax would think it was "good news" if the ship happened to change from a 752 to a 762. Even the FA thought so. It had nothing to do with numbers of seats. Sorry to give that impression. |
With the ERJ, are they now adding frequency?
We continue to see the effects of CO's fleet shortage. And as air travel rebounds, I suspect we'll continue to see these types of issues crop up until they get an influx of new planes. I'm assuming these aren't easy decisions for the ops folks. While the 735 was full in one direction, it could have been 50% full on the other. So they have to factor the average 75% load with the fare mix vs. a 100% full ERJ in both direction and 25% lost business. Then offset that 25% loss by those who are connecting (some of whom will simply pick a different CO route, so there's no loss of business), and perhaps the loss is somewhere along the lines of 10% - 15% (or about 11-16 seats a day). Now if that 735 can perform better on a more lucrative route, more power to them. Just send some drink certs to ease the pain of the ERJ for 45 minutes (at least those who don't do no or 'limited beverage service). :D Good luck to the "heartland people" of CLE. |
Cleveland-Hub Lite
I fly through CLE almost weekly and yes, it is an Embraer hub. Give me an Embraer hub over a Canadair hub.
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Originally Posted by channa
With the ERJ, are they now adding frequency?
We continue to see the effects of CO's fleet shortage. And as air travel rebounds, I suspect we'll continue to see these types of issues crop up until they get an influx of new planes. I'm assuming these aren't easy decisions for the ops folks. While the 735 was full in one direction, it could have been 50% full on the other. So they have to factor the average 75% load with the fare mix vs. a 100% full ERJ in both direction and 25% lost business. Then offset that 25% loss by those who are connecting (some of whom will simply pick a different CO route, so there's no loss of business), and perhaps the loss is somewhere along the lines of 10% - 15% (or about 11-16 seats a day). Now if that 735 can perform better on a more lucrative route, more power to them. Just send some drink certs to ease the pain of the ERJ for 45 minutes (at least those who don't do no or 'limited beverage service). :D Good luck to the "heartland people" of CLE. |
MBM3 Thanks for keeping up on the CLE info. I've come to accept these small planes as a fact of life out of CLE. However I am still trying to figure out how to lift the arm rest on the single seat window side. Wasn't it you that mentioned how to accomplish it? If you can let me know your secret again. Because I cant figure it out and would love to know how.
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Originally Posted by danceswithsunlight
MBM3 Thanks for keeping up on the CLE info. I've come to accept these small planes as a fact of life out of CLE. However I am still trying to figure out how to lift the arm rest on the single seat window side. Wasn't it you that mentioned how to accomplish it? If you can let me know your secret again. Because I cant figure it out and would love to know how.
And yes, RJs are a fact of life here in CLE and I really do not mind them most of the time, with the exception of the god aweful 2-4 hour flights and seemingly silly downgrades that I noted above. RJs serve a wonderful purpose but there can and should be limits! One could even argue that our elite benefits are being reduced given the limitations of the equipment. |
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