bocastephen

What is wrong with CO's YYZ staff?

As promised, here is my rant about the conditions at YYZ. The FA asked me to send this to customer service, which I might still do, but given the depth of corporate lurking done on the board, it might get high enough visibility being posted here.

This is a play-by-play of how things came apart for me (and many others) this past Sunday night due to the extreme weather at EWR.

I checked in for the flight with Mona - she is actually the best agent at that station, and probably one of the better agents I have dealt with in the CO system. I have checked in with her before when delays are forecast, and she is always willing to help and find a reasonable solution, being willing to book me on any alternative I can find. This past Sunday, after looking at the status for both my flights, we concluded the YYZ-EWR portion would be delayed about 1 hour and my connection onwards would also be delayed about an hour, so I would be fine. Before leaving her, I verified there was space on the NWA flights via DTW, should things go downhill. I left her with my BPs in hand and went to clear US inspection.

After arriving at the second gate (our gate was changed - possibly a clue something was up), the counter was attended by two agents - I did not catch their names. One was an Indian male and the other was an older caucasian female with short blondish hair. After deplaning the inbound, the male agent went to speak to the crew and returned in a few minutes and announced the flight was delayed until 8pm. After the screams of anguish had subsided, everyone got up to rush the counter - I was already on my way there when I heard "the flight is further delayed..." and I began working with the male agent. He seemed completely perplexed as to how to handle the situation. I explained there was a NW flight leaving at 625p and asked him to check it and the connection for availability - he did so, then tried to book the segments but couldn't seem to finish the process. He consulted with the female agent, who explained I needed to be 'unseated' from the CO flight before they could send my ticket to NWA. I said it was fine, just do it quickly because I only had about 25 minutes to get to that gate....then the trouble began. I was told there was no guarantee that NWA would 'accept me'. I couldn't get an explanation for what that meant. I was then warned that if I was unseated for the CO flight and could not make the NW flight, he would not rebook me on CO and I would be stuck for the night. I said that was not acceptable. I asked the agent to call the NW gate and make sure they would 'accept me'. He declined to do that, stating he didn't know how. I insisted he figure it out, but he would not do it - faced with the option of risking an overnight or sticking it out to catch my connection (likely to be further delayed), I didn't feel I had a choice (hindsight is 20/20 of course) and went to sit down. My ticket out of there evaporated because this lazy guy would not pick up the phone to make sure he could send a passenger to a partner carrier. Eventually he did 'protect me' with two segments on Delta - why he couldn't do the same thing for NW is beyond me.

I have to award kudos to the Elite phone desk who worked with me throughout this ordeal tracking my flight and my connection's inbound to try and calculate if I was going to make it or not.

The staff handled the mob of passengers with total inefficiency. No other agents appeared to assist them and the station manager was no where to be found. No preference was given to FC or Elite customers and everyone was spoken to in the order they joined the line. People were rebooked the next day - without regard to their connection status or if they were O+D for YYZ/EWR, so precious seats in the morning were given to O+D customers while connects towards the end of the line lost their options. I was completely bewildered as these agents began handing out hotel and meal vouchers to anyone who decided to overnight - a clear violation of company policy and this created an expectation on the part of all passengers they would be housed and fed overnight. To be honest, I fully intended on using that as leverage if I misconnected at EWR and the Elite agent offered to document my record so I could request reimbursement if I had to pay for my own hotel.

8pm came and went. I checked with the Elite line and confirmed our departure was still scheduled for around 830, so I was confused why we didn't board and the male agent was not doing anything to get new information. I finally went to him and stated I called a 'contact at Houston ops' (yes, I lied) who said we should have boarded for our 830 departure and wanted to know why we hadn't. Only then did he go back to the flight crew to find out what was going on. Apparently, even though the weather in EWR had let up, YYZ ATC was refusing to let us go because 'no one had told them it was OK'. Good grief. Now I fully understand that you can't get anywhere by throwing a fit, and the pilot throwing a fit with ATC was not going to get us airborne any faster, but I am perplexed why he did not escalate things further, because he himself admitted to being annoyed at the situation. I would think a call to ops requesting someone begin escalating the issue with ATC on both sides of the border would have either gotten us airborne or at least found the real reason for the delay. In any event, YYZ stated we needed to board because they wanted the gate for another aircraft. We boarded, pushed back and off we went to the deicing pad where we got to sit for two hours. Apparently, the YYZ crew did not arrange for catering because no beverages or ice was loaded and the FAs only had a limited supply of leftover drinks and pretzels for the FC cabin and some pax in the back. We sat there for two hours while the crew and passengers became more and more upset. You could hear the frustration building in the Captain's voice as he confirmed that arrivals into EWR had resumed and YYZ ATC was still insisting we could not go.

After the two hours, the Captain said 'enough is enough' and this was getting ridiculous and told ATC to find us a gate to taxi back to so customers who wanted to remain overnight could deplane. So back we went. The YYZ agents were totally confused when we showed back up and had no idea what to do...except appear confused and sometimes rude when challenged by either the crew or pax. The YYZ agents refused to let anyone off the aircraft. Since I was seated upfront, I ended up being one of the 'unoffical communictors' trying to negotiate things between the ground staff, the crew and pax. The ground staff had no idea about the customs regulations that applied to a voluntary deplaning from the pre-cleared zone. I reminded them the rules permitted a customer to deplane, retrieve their bags and leave the pre-cleared area without having to reclear Canada Customs, since they never left Canada. The ground crew didn't believe me and insisted they could not verify this because "canada customs was closed". Bullspit! They were still open as flights were arriving from other cities. They refused to lift a finger to do anything. When the crew began insisting they allow passengers to deplane, they again refused because they would not offload bags. When asked why, they answered the 'bag transfer belt was closed'. The lead FA got really angry at this point and insisted the bags be removed manually and brought to the jetway - the staff refused. I asked to speak to the station manager and was told they went home and were not available...how is this possible?

The next step was finally negotiating the release of those passengers without checked bags - but not until the agent got a list to make sure no one was lying about having a checked bag. One agent stood out as particularly rude. His name was Chris. He wore a big smirk throughout this entire ordeal and was pretty sarcastic to anyone who asked him a question. The lady sitting behind me pointed out that he was rude to all the people he checked in at the counter and she wanted to file a complaint. Believe it or not, he treated the FAs with as much contempt as the customers. Apparently, the FAs had not eaten since 130pm. They were hungry and tired. They wanted to deplane and get some food. They were refused. They asked him to get the food for them and bring it back to the plane - again, he refused. I was going to get off and go buy the sandwiches for them, but if I deplaned, I could not get back on. Nice way to treat your colleagues and customers.

Finally, it appeared the crew decided their duty time was going to be exceeded and the Captain was suggesting we deplane and put an end to this night. As soon as we started marching up the jetway, another agent ran down yelling to us to get back on board, we were leaving. The Captain confirmed that their duty time was extended, this being an international flight, but could not confirm we were released - YYZ ATC was still insisting we could not leave. By this time, guess what - the next line of storms did hit EWR and we were really being held...but they rolled through and the airport was again accepting arrivals - which was news to the braintrust at YYZ ATC. Eventually the Captain was able to get someone to release us...but some of the pax had deplaned and the YYZ staff were unsure what to do - the FAs were yelling 'close the door', but the agents did nothing. After a few more tense minutes, the door was closed, we pushed back and actually did depart....which leads right into my other post: Any Other Elites Sleep on the Floor at EWR on Sunday The 14th?

The bottom line? The YYZ agents, with one exception, made this experience one of confusion, disorganization, and needless anxiety for a plane full of customers AND their own colleagues. They did not follow company policy, did not use common sense, and some of them went out of their way to act rude and mean. This might be a complete surprise to agent Chris, but not everyone on that airplane found this event to be as amusing as you did. To the Indian male agent - next time someone asks you to pick up the phone and do something as simple as my request, just do it. Dont hand out seats to O+D customers until you have accomodated the connectors who have more complex arrangements and needs. Offer to work with FC and Elite customers first before allowing a mob scene to form at the counter. Be more proactive in talking to the crew and communicating updates to the customers. Don't just say NO to reasonable requests, like deplaning - find a way to make it work...and dont make up lies because you have no interest in really doing anything to help. Perhaps there is something in the water up there. A similar incident with NWA last year resulted in exactly the same amount of confusion and conflict from that airline's ground staff, and I had to speak up and intervene to get anything done.


I am not the only one complaining about this station - I know of other Elites onboard who had every intention of calling customer service and giving them an earful. I decided to lay out this play-by-play to solicit comments from fellow members and let the lurkers have something to read.

Russell745

Wow, what a story!

I hate to say it but I probably would have been arrested. Amazing that anyone could keep thier cool under those circumstances.

Kudos to you for writing such a detailed, lucid and articulate account of your experience. I just hope CO takes your letter seriously and reacts to it.

Good Luck.

ProudEdmontonian

bocastephen I note a number of references to YYZ ATC in your post. Firstly, I am no fan of YYZ and the nonsense that goes on there at that pathetic airport and I believe wholeheartedly that it is a Canadian national embarrassment. It and AC go hand-in-hand for arrogance and stupidity.

However, given the AF 340 disaster only a little over a week ago at YYZ and weather problems I think a large part of your experience has a lot to do with YYZ ATC and their natural human instinct to err overwhelmingly on the side of extreme caution, which leads to paralysis in decision-making.

I am sure the CO agents (and every other carrier there) had been dealing with erratic YYZ ATC behavior for hours if not days since there have been weather issues for a long time including when I was there on August 10th when my YYZ-YEG AC flight left nearly 2 hours late.

YYZ is notorious for being one of the most poorly-run, poorly-designed bureaucratic airports in Canada that also is closed from midnight to 6 am daily, which also greatly hinders operations since delays in the evening simply turn into cancellations.

bocastephen

I understand how caution could abound if the weather problems were at YYZ, but the weather was at EWR - the YYZ weather was clear. YYZ appeared unable to work with NY Center to actually get traffic moving inbound when the weather lifted and reported to the Capt. of our flight they had no updated information, when they should have been far more proactive. Part of his frustration stemmed from him getting good weather and flight resumption info from CO ops, while YYZ ATC refused to release the flight because they seemed unable to coordinate this information with NY ATC. We had two windows where we could have departed YYZ and landed at EWR after the Int'l arrivals had been on the ground at EWR and before the next line of storms hit the airport - we sat on the ground for both because YYZ ATC was too lazy to work the phones and get our flight moving. I felt bad for the Capt. who was obviously frustrated, and at one point I almost suggested he just throw caution to the wind and start screaming at ATC to get us released.

The DL flight to ATL that Mr. Unhelpful agent 'protected' me on ended up sitting beside our aircraft at the deice pad for almost as long as we did - and when I checked it the next morning, found it arrived ATL after 1am, yet I found no other evidence of significant inbound delays to ATL on Sunday evening.

Truth be told, alot of the ATC folks in Canada are ex-FAA staff who were fired by Pres. Reagon during the PATCO fiasco. Maybe there is something in the water after all

cerealmarketer

Lousy situation for everyone.

I know the customer service desks at the hubs have dedicated elite lines (although in bad situations, they sometimes close them), but have never seen a gate desk handle delay requests for elites/FC first. Always been whoever is first in line, or some priority to connections as you mention.

Is it official policy to help elites/first class passengers at an individual gate? I would be thrilled if it is.

If it isn't it's not reasonable to expect the YYZ station will break policy (you do get upset that they handout hotel vouchers against policy).

travelrules

First off, Kudos to you on your excellent handling of the whole situation, I know exactly what kind of situation you were in, for it happened to me twice at YYZ with Continental, and after complaining to Houston and asking the rude agents for their names, the next time I flew out of YYZ one of those agents tried to checkin a passenger from the coach line while I was waiting in the first line (which this agent was manning), so I went first and the agent said this passenger was here before you, and then the passenger said oh I am not flying in firstclass, so I checked in with the agent not even looking at me and then when I finished he said would you like my name again. Not being in the mood to start anything, and after getting the same bs and form letters from we care, I simply switched our firms travel policy over to American and all of our Israel flights to El Al and believe me that is a big loss to Continental b/c our firm flew a couple times a month in bus/first but I just couldn't take this crap anymore.

I mean don't get me wrong, their are some great Co agents at YYZ the problem is the bad are overshadowing the good and when you speak to their customer service department about it with specifics, e.g names, times, exact details, witnesses and from their response in terms of not even documenting what I am saying that shows me that their will be no changes, so I wont bother trying to change something where it is not going to happen.

Just my 2cents

climmy

Wow, Bocastephen, My wife and I had THE EXACT SAME THING happen a little over a year ago !!! We were routed YYZ-EWR-SFO.

This is really amazing.

There are those times when you just KNOW that everything is about to go sideways. I knew that we would miss our connection at EWR. I asked the GA (I think it must have been the same Indian Fella) to re-route us through IAH or CLE as options. NOPE, just wait for your plane. I didn't even bother with other airline partners. Put us out tomorrow. NOPE, just wait for your plane.

The gate staff paid absolutely no heed to OD traffic, elites or other. It was totally demoralizing. I sat back down and told my wife to get ready for a long day.

However, the one thing that saved us was a sole helpful GA who did, in fact, come and get us [my wife and I only] off the plane and put us on a flight connecting through IAH instead. She even had our upgrades processed on the IAH-SFO flight since I was plat and wife gold at the time (and were both confirmed on the original EWR-SFO leg).

I can only imagine the continuing frustrations of those leftover on the plane. I never checked to see whether the flight ever left or not. The worst part of the experience was the 3.5 hour flight to IAH on an ERJ, but that's hardly a tragedy.

I was born and raised in Toronto. I fly there regulalry. Locals always tout TO as a world class city with cultural diversity and tolerance for all, which it is. However, it seems as through the people who dislike outsiders ALL WORK AT THE AIRPORT. Every time I go through the airport I'm left with the feeling that I'd rather slam my hand in a car door than go through that again.

And after all that, Mrs. Climmy and I are going there next week !! The saga continues.....

bocastephen

Exactly the same for me...born and raised there, but dealing with that airport creates a feeling of dread. I did my internships there during college (it was cheaper to stay at home with the folks) and experienced the full force of the mind boggling hostility that permeates the place. There are some rather amusing stories in my memory from that experience. Nowadays, I have even flown via BUF just to avoid the hassle factor.

I am probably going there again for labor day weekend, but will route home via CLE to reduce the chance of another unhappy surprise. I am going to bet it was Mona (she appears abit Indian/Trinidadian) the supervisor who came to help you. I only wish she came to the gate this Sunday to slap Mr. Unhelpful and the rest of Team Mean around abit. Being the station supervisor, I would hope she had better control over the performance of her agents.

Maybe the company lurkers are perusing these posts and figuring out how to word the Memo to the YYZ SM?

formeraa

In YYZ, are these people actually CO employees or are they contracted help? Several years ago, I had problems with the contracted agents in HNL, not understanding to concept of standing by for an earlier flight. Fortunately, there was one CO employee (supervisor) who actually knew the rules.

bocastephen

The YYZ staff are, as far as I know, employees of CO. They wear CO uniforms, have CO employee badges and only work CO flights. The ramp staff are contracted, though.

Of course, as many of us know, being a CO employee doesn't always guarantee the delivery of good service or adherance to company policies and procedures.