Support Continental
 

I just read this quote by Gordon Bethune:"We feel like a candle that is slowly losing its oxygen supply and dimming slowly". I know many here have gripes about Continental. I have to say, though, that I appreciate the many upgrades I've received over the years and the free travel I've enjoyed. I have some discretionary travel coming up soon, and I made the decision to take the trip and travel on Continental to show my support for the many wonderful Continental employees who have served me over the years.

I agree - to a point. Many of the good people of CO will follow Gordo-the-Liar off a cliff...and that's where he's leading them.

How many layoffs did he announce today? How much bonus did he take last year - despite the losses?

Support CO by flying ANY OTHER CARRIER until Gordo is fired by the board.

Not sure if you're just trolling again, but here are the answers.

Today CO announced 1200 job reductions. It's unclear if layoffs will be necessary, but it was suggested that most (if not all) reductions will be acheived through voluntary programs and attrition.

Bonuses for 2002 are unavailable at this point, but for 2001, Bethune received $967,320 in bonuses for the first three quarters of 2001. During that time, CO was the only big six airline to show a profit in any quarter, and it was profitable in all three.

As far as Q4 '01, this is from the proxy: "In the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks and the company's resulting reduction in force, Messrs. Bethune and Kellner voluntarily waived their salary and any cash bonuses otherwise earned by them as employees of the company with respect to the period between September 26, 2001 and December 31, 2001."

In 2001, Bethune also directed $340,000 in compensation to the "We Care Trust," which provides assistance to employees of CO.

As I've said before, all of this info can be found in the Investor Relations section of the CO Web site. You should visit - it may answer your questions and, subsequently, reduce clutter on this board.

[This message has been edited by JeremyZ (edited 03-20-2003).]

I support CO because they are the hub airline in CLE. In shopping for fares CO wins all "ties" (and actually wins if they're close to WN or AA).

HOWEVER, let's remember that CO is not a charity. It is a for-profit business. If the "candle" goes out it certainly would be tragic for the employees and stockholders.

Always remember that some other carrier will jump on the profitable routes (if a route is not profitable it shouldn't exist in the first place). Braniff, PanAm, Peoples Express and many other are long gone and we can all still get from point A to B.

tightwalker
Your support is greatly appreciated! Thank you http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Ditto! CO moved to Cleveland when I was a kid and flying sporatically. If Im not mistaken United had moved out of cleveland at that time. I use CO for about 85% of my flights from LGA connecting mainly thru CLE, and I use NW if I can't get the times I want and occasionally those flights connect in CLE instead of DTW.

BTW..did you see the MULTIPLE post by Hopkins in the airport section??



[This message has been edited by kcctravel (edited 03-20-2003).]

I support CO because they run a good operation. My experience has been: Clean, new equipment, on time flights, no lost bags, friendly and helpful staff, free unlimited upgrades, international concierges, a better-than-most reward program.
Flying IAH/NRT tomorrow in J. Yes, CO is the best, in my book!

I have been a loyal CO supporter for 15+ Years (my wife and I have both been Plats for 5+ years). I WOULD support CO if they would only fix EUA. Its clear that it is totally unrelaible. I personally know of 3 instances when it was down for 5 days or more, with no notification. Free domestic upgrades are CO's 'Hook". When you can't deliver somethng that is your primary FF benefit and that you advertise, then something is badly wrong.
Still, Sondra and I remain CO Plats, BUT, we currently have ticketed 8 flights on NW (business that would have to CO, simply because NW EUA works as advertised.
We are hopeing that CO wakes up.
I don't know how much longer we want ot feel we are being taken advantaged of.


[This message has been edited by Vulcan (edited 03-20-2003).]

Yea.

When I first saw the post from Cleveland Hopkins Airport (must be one of the longest FT handles) I noticed a post count of 6. About a nanosecond later the opening thread here and on the other 5 boards was closed. I guess the various moderators swooped down like a F117 over Baghdad and moved the thread to FT Airports.

Nice to "see" that they (CLE) is "listening".

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CO treats me like a king, Rodney King

[This message has been edited by Billiken (edited 03-20-2003).]

Did you make any suggetions, seeing as you live in CLE

With all due respect to tightwalker, I've more or less blindly supported CO for 7 years but frankly, I'm getting sick of all their nickel and diming and the bad attitudes of many of their employees. If they happen to fit my travel needs at the particular time I'm buying the tickets, fine. Otherwise, not a chance (and increasingly that is the case.) But, as a CO Plat, I would honestly say I could care less whether CO stays in business or not and if they do wind up going out of business they'll have no one to blame but themselves. That having been said, I never like people to lose their jobs, but the person who should be being asked to "support Continental" is Bethune, not his put-upon passengers.

You can still see/read the thread farther down on the CO board. Basically, I wouldn't want the job of running a hub airport where it's the primary carrier's weakest of 3 locations. That, coupled with CAK's source of cheap flights to places like BOS and NYC, make the CLE situation a very complex. I don't know if there is a right answer.

If you expand gates for WN, CO tells you to go to ..... If you don't expand for WN, customers drive to CAK to fly Airtran or at least NW for the same price as Airtran (which I have done 2, soon to be 3 x this year).

Interest B-school case study.

As much as I loved CO back during the HP-CO alliance, I really have no need for them these days.

Don't get me wrong. Flying SFO-IAH-CUN first class all the way and back on upgrades upon request was a total blast. I even wrote a letter to CO after one trip thanking them for making it so much fun.

I do miss those days and wish they could get back together. But now that HP serves CUN nonstop from PHX, I'll probably never step in IAH again.

It's sad to see Gordo ruin CO. Good luck to all those nice FA's who helped make my trips so delightful.

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God Bless America West and ...

HP - Platinum/990k miles
BA - Dirt/5k Soon to be Gold
AA - Dirt/60k, 2MM soon.
UA - Dirt/19k miles
NW - Dirt/10k For emergencies.

I'm rather new to FT, but I've read enough threads to remember your handle well. CO must've done something AWFUL to you sometime ago, for you to carry the "i hate CO" torch like you do.

That being said, Gordon Bethune is running a BUSINESS. He is actually one of the few CEOs of any major airline in the US to run their airline with the shareholders clearly in mind. (That focus on shareholders must come from 2 trips thru bankruptcy.)

There really isn't much the airlines can do with today's economic/geopolitical situation. They can simply hope to wait it out, relying on whatever cash they've got left. Gordo's playing it smart, cutting cash expenses to stay afloat.

That's what his board pays him to do, and I'd say that you'd be hard pressed to argue the facts that he IS doing a good job of it, relative to the industry.

(BTW, I'm sure you've heard this phrase: "Friends never let friends buy airline stocks." IMHO, that goes for CO, as well as every other airline stock out there.)



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CO Plat, US Silver

Welcome to Flyertalk. I'm sure some apologists will debate me on this (they always do) but if you're new here, let me get you filled in on how this is about your company, and not about me.

At one time, I like many here was very appreciative of CO and the services they provided. Their marketing office had a number of really nice people who reached-out to passengers and were nice folks.

Then, the Bean counters in Houston - the same ones that Gordo-The-Liar said in his book that he should not listen to - began to change things...well for the worse. Here are some of the threads and links that might give some history:

The old issues of the "deny" campaign are now a bit dated, but the website gives a good historical perspective of what started to go very wrong.

A good summary of the history of benefit reductions.

Gordo and the documented big lie.

The big lie again, with no apology – ever!

Documenting how the benefit reduction strategy is failing, and updates to the list of reductions

Try the Unofficial Continental Dictionary nonepass.com The lies and doublespeak get so thick that Flyertalkers need to publish a translation guide.

The unanswered questions and issues. CO management is even too cowardly to take part in a moderated chat where questions they don’t want to see will be filtered out, so these issues continue to remain ignored – further “proof” that CO only pretends to address it’s frequent customers’ issues.

The nice people in the CO marketing office quit or were fired long ago. (No one who heard the inside story will forget how one of the nicest was “reprimanded” for “being too nice to and friendly with” her customers.) There’s just Gordo-the-liar and his “sex and speed” ego and loud mouth. CO will NEVER turn it around until they get some real, customer friendly leadership.


Composed and spellchecked in MS Word as a favor to the nit-pickers.


Edited to fix UBBcode.

[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 03-21-2003).]

Good one, David.

LOL

NJDavid for president!! Beautifully said!

I'm waiting with baited breath for JeremyZ's reply(ies).

Is our name really that long??

I suppose we got your attention?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I must agree with DTHernandez, the nickle and diming has to stop.

There was a time when CO was different from the other major carriers. The turnaround was remarkable, and reaped benefits for CO and it's employees. CO employees rose to the occassion, because they were led by example. The company truly valued its customers, and went out of their way to provide good service. Most CO employees still do.

But your management started believing their own spin. You enjoyed a revenue premium, and to be honest, used that revenue premium to "spoil" your best customers. Unlimited FC upgrades hooked me. As the numbers of business travellers began to decline in 2001 (followed by 9/11), your management decided to try and force the revenue higher. The secret "star" system of rating pax by revenue is a good example. At the same time, your management started cutting customer amenities and FF benefits, while at the same time promising not to cut FF benefits nor inflight amenities. Lets face it, we all know that the CO of today is not the same CO of 2000.

I've always been price-sensitive, being self-employed. But CO/NW got the lions share of the revenue I spent on air travel. But your management decided that my revenue wasn't important, because it wasn't the RIGHT revenue. IE it wasn't full Y.

Unlimited FC upgrades are a problem for CO. Everyone wants them, but your management still thinks the cabin is worth a revenue premium. Let me share a little fact with you: It's not.

I've been flying AirTran A LOT this year, and they treat their FC cabin differently. It's marketed as "Business Class" for starters. Also, on the day of travel, upgrades to BC are available, on a "first come, first served" basis. $35 per flight segment is all it costs to upgrade. Doesn't matter if you buy a cheap fare or a full Y. Is the product worth $35 per segment to upgrade? Based on the value I get from it, yes. Big seat, and a couple free drinks when I feel like it. And I almost never have trouble getting the upgrade AND a reasonable fare.

Those $35 per segement upgrades turn the person who spends $250 to fly R/T CAK-ATL-RSW into someone who spends $390. Wouldn't you like more customers like that? Then quit trying to tell us that your FC cabin is a "premium product", when it's not. It's simply a bigger seat, and a little more room. Maybe a meal, but only maybe nowadays. Remember when your management told us that wouldn't be changing, too?

I don't get that hassle free experience on CO anymore. CO used to make me feel like a valued customer. Your managment could have adjusted your business model to reflect the current needs of your customers. But your management expected me to change my spending habits to meet THEIR needs. Guess what? I had other options. It would seem to me that I'm probably not the only one who CO has chased away in the past 2-3 years. Where do you think CO would be had they not forced many of us to find another way from point A to B? After all, when it comes right down to it, that's all air travel is.

I recognize the business realities. I probably recognize them better than some other people here, because the money comes out of MY pocket, not charged to some corporate AMEX card. But since 9/11, the airline industry has needed to confront some very ugly realities. Yet in most cases (including CO), they've chosen to hope that business travel rebounds, rather than make some tough decisions. The industry needs to be restructured, top to bottom. There are viable business models in the "economy coach" (WN), "premium coach" (JetBlue), and "2 cabin" (AirTran) airline models. Confront the reality. If it means the end of unlimited upgrades, but means CO survives, so be it. Don't count on premium revenue to save you. It's not coming back. But your management needs to remember to value EVERY customer, as you once did. Until that day comes, my travel on CO will be very limited. This CO silver has yet to set foot on a CO Plane this year. Good luck.

I work for British Airways at LGW - an arch rival on the LGW-IAH route (we used to fly to New York too until Future Size and Shape got a hold!)

More route cuts have been announced...poor CO is now down to one LGW-IAH and one LGW-EWR per day with LGW-CLE five times a week.

I have always been on good terms with the CO staff and, whatever you think of Gordon Bethune, he is, without doubt, one of the best bosses in the world in the fair treatment of staff......in theory,at least, this should be reflected in the staff's fair treatment of customers!

Please support CO during these dark days (and please use BA on Inter-European sectors!) and keep the candle sputtering!

Your help, guys, is really appreciated from all of us in the aviation industry!

Competition Keeps Us Healthy!

I have to agree with Duxfan.

I'm a big fan of jetBlue's product, and I've been doing a lot of AA recently, too - some nice promotions and reasonable pricing, unlike some of the outrageous pricing and service cuts I've seen from CO.

If this were just a 9/11 or war-related issue, I would be supportive. But the industry was suffering before 9/11 (CO was barely profitable, and the other majors weren't even), due in part to recession and corporate cutbacks, but also due to the flawed business model and pricing schemes. HP is actually looking up (admittedly from a weak position) because they have realized that the old pricing model does not work when there are alternatives available. CO and others haven't seen that yet.

Therefore, I will do the most supportive thing I can do, which is tell CO that I cannot justify the premium I would have to pay to fly them. The sooner they realize that the pricing and business model need to change, the sooner they will save themselves. I hope unlike US and UA (and maybe AA) it happens before backruptcy. But if not, then so be it.

Well, the CO proxy came out today, and here's Bethune's 2002 compensation. Frankly, it's astonishing:

*Annual Compensation*
Salary: $1,063,350
Bonus: $651,563
Other: $35,425

*Long Term Compensation*
(Awards)
Restricted Stock: $2,318,250
Securities Underlying Options: 800,000
(Payouts)
LTIP Payouts: $3,518,438

*Other Compensation*
Insurance Premiums: 41,835

Y'all who are interested should read the proxy. In 2002, the HR committee of the board rejiggered the LTIP formula to award execs full payments if CO achieved "the highest cumulative EBITDAR margin in the industry group" and other goals. Prior to this, it looks like CO would have had to show a profit for these payments to be made. Lucky fools.

BTW, Gordon's son, Xavier Bethune was compensated to the tune of $226,045 for his job as a Senior Director - Purchasing of CO.

We'll have to see what the other airlines are doing, but CO's generosity to Bethune for 2002 looks to be pretty incredible.


Also, I found this in the proxy, and it sounded new to me:

Finally, and it's probably also something to watch, CO's pension plan is underfunded by about $1.2 billion. NW is underfunded by more than $3 billion. As airlines either force or "encourage" employees to leave the company, these deficits could become more of an issue.

[This message has been edited by JeremyZ (edited 03-27-2003).]

$12 million in compensation in a year with a $451 million net loss - an 82% raise - just unbelievable!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/007695.html

[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 03-27-2003).]

I LUV it!!!! Gordo reinvents Cal-Lite http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Is it my imagination, or did this come across to anyone else as refering to CO coach (in addition to CO F/J) as somehow being a "premium product"? If Gordo the Liar thinks his coach product deserves to have the word "premium" placed anywhere near it, he's been huffing jet fuel again.

"We have announced and are implementing plans to modify our product for the large segment of our customers who are not willing to pay for a premium product, to reduce costs and to generate additional revenue. Other carriers have announced similar plans to create lower-cost products, or to offer separate low cost products (such as a low-cost "airline within an airline")."

C'mon Spiff -

CO management thinks ANYTHING with a CO code on it is a premium product. Problem is, it's not anymore!

"Continental Airlines... We're the Saturn of the airline industry, because we beleive our own "quality" spin..."

It is tough to support CO when CO makes you feel like they are doing you a favor by letting you travel on them. Despite some recent problems, by and large NW makes me feel welcome. CO has some great employees but still has a pervasive "we are great, we are CO" attitude at many levels. Until they fix the TERRIBLE international/HNL upgrade program, I will avoid flying them whenever possible.

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Support our troops, not our president.
I am not real smart, but I can lift heavy things.