Virgin Codeshare Upgrades Possible?
 

I am new to this board-- but learning every day. I am a Gold Elite and have a CO code share ticket on Virgin from LAX to LHR in K class. Has anyone had success in getting an upgrade with miles? I bought my ticket 2 months ago and was told at that time that I was on a waiting list that will be in effect until 72 hours out--- and that the seats don't load up until 30 days out. I had been checking a few times a week to see if anything became available and was just told that there really is no waiting list for codeshares and that it is a good thing they told me now since the agent from the so-called "Elite Priority Line" did not know the rules. That being said, is there anything I can do to try and upgrade my flights or am I probably out of luck? My travel dates are May 12 and June 1. Thanks.

If you have a Continental designated ticket, and the flight is merely operated by Virgin (for example, Continental flight #4420 SFO - LHR) then what you were originally told is correct. If you have a pure Virgin ticket (for example, Virgin #20 SFO - LHR), then the second agent is correct.

Hopefully you have a CO designated ticket operated by Virgin. If that is the case, yes, you can upgrade for 40K round trip if space in that class is available. You qualify for your upgrade because you purchased a proper fare - K class (you need H or K to qualify for a 40K upgrade, or Y to qualify for a 20K upgrade).

It is true that the proper class of seats for this upgrade (Z class if I recall correctly, or maybe R class) is not released until 30 days prior to flight time. Continental has 12 UpperClass seats on each Virgin 747 - they are seats A and C, then H and K in rows 7, 8 and 9. You can get other seats (ones allocated to Virgin) day of departure at the airport, if available.

Your experience on Virgin will be wholly identical to Virgin passengers, except that Continental passengers are supposed to use the Air Canada arrivals lounge in LHR, which is fine, and I've reviewed it in another thread if you search. Other FT members have reported success at simply showing up at the Virgin UpperClass lounge and being admitted. In all of the US cities I've departed from (which is LAX and SFO) you can sue the Virgin lounges - which are superb, especially SFO.

Hope this helps.

I don't know if things are still as bad as they are described in this thread-- but probably...
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/000800.html

Maybe someone here has more a more recent experience.

Obviously the "is this fare upgradeable" portion no longer applies-- if you have a K fare, it's upgradeable.

Thanks for the info. The link to the other post about getting the wrong info is exactly what happened to me. Every time I call I get new info. What would be the best way to try and get the upgrade on a CO ticket operated by Virgin? Or better yet, would my chances for an upgrade been better on CO alone? My only concern is that I hate flying LAX - EWR - LHR. I guess I will be educated for my next trip, not the one in May.

CO does not allow waitlists on any codeshare flights as of approximately 18 months ago. We will only waitlist you on CO-operated planes. That's the policy. Some are ignorant of the policy. As far as I know, if you are already on a waitlist for a VS codeshare, it should still be effective.

The usual way to get the upgrade is to ask for it over the phone, as you've been doing. You could ask the agent if there are more than 3 seats left to sell in Upper Class. If not, it's a slim chance you would ever get the "R" bucket you need to upgrade. If you don't get the upgrade by 4 days before the flight, you are out of luck. All "R" class is removed 3 days prior.

Maybe you'll have better luck for the return on June 1, which will possibly be available in "R" on May 2.

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I am not a sanctioned representative of Continental on these boards, just an interested participant.

[This message has been edited by ResAgent86 (edited 04-27-2002).]

ResAgent86,

I stand to be corrected, obviously you know more than I do...but...isn't CO's relationship with Virgin a hard block and not a code share? Then, as to these hard block seats, they are sold or awarded as CO-designated, and the waitlist policies are exactly the same as for any old CO flights. Right or wrong?

[This message has been edited by thesilb (edited 04-27-2002).]

CO agents are still in the dark about this. To this day no one has given me an accurate answer! But my understanding is that even though it is a hard block, the wait list does not exist for the VS code share. And if they put you on a wait list, it will never be processed because there is no system assigned to process it (because it "doesn't exist."

I wrote to Business Taveller Magazine about this (with an abreviated version of my letter to CO). Here is what CO published in the mag in response:

"Mr. zrs70 didn't buy an upgradeable fare, so we could not upgrade him." (false: CO agents verified over and over that my fare was valid). "CO does not have a wait list for code-shares."

CO wrote me a letter assuring that these training would end these confusions. Obviously nothing has happened. This was two years ago. It really irks me that this issue is ongoing.

[This message has been edited by zrs70 (edited 04-27-2002).]

Wow, this got me very confused. I was thinking about flying a Virgin/Continental codeshare lax-lon and using miles to upgrade. But, this thread had left me scared and confused. I gues it's not like other airlines where you can just use your miles to confirm an upgrade when you buy a ticket.

tph4,

I have successfully redeemed upgrade rewards for 40K on VS several times now. But, I agree it's too tough with the new rules. Who can take a gamble that they pay 2-5X the lowest price ticket NOW, for just a CHANCE to upgrade down the road at thirty days out. Nobody with any brains. CO's policies on international upgrades are very convoluted and completely not user friendly. And, there is no difference being an elite member or not with upgrades - you're screwed either way.

So, the best course if you have the miles, and especially if you're platinum, is just to redeem them. Platinums have a bucket with very good availability (I just snagged a VS RT for 2 pax for this July for 100K per pax), and while availability for non-platinums is poor in the summer, its decent in the off season, and hit or miss in swing.

It seems completely crazy to me that CO won't take my $2,200 in revenue and 40K and let me upgarde, but they will take 100K and $87 for taxes. That's just not good business sense for them - at least not in my opinion.

If I didn't have miles to burn, I would just do several cheap-o transcons to get the extra 60K miles needed. As a plat, I could do some SFO-Florida runs through EWR for $150-200 per ticket (gosh, or $114 to JAX recently, or $99 to CMH) and just spend say 5 x 150 = $750. So, CO makes an extra $750 from me, and they have to fly my a** across the country five times and let me eat, drink and consume FC seats instead of their business passengers...and they forego the $2,200 I would spend on just buying the midweek SFO LHR ticket on CO/VS. That's plain crazy.

But if that's the game CO wants us to play, bring it on. To the extent I don't have time to do those 5 runs, I'll give my business to American or US Air or whoever (and, I just purchased $7,000 worth of SFO LGW summer tickets on US Air...). But for now, I have miles on CO banked and as a plat, I'll just burn them at 100K reward level if CO doesn't want my $2,200.

I have upgraded using CO miles on the VS codeshares a number of times. It is indeed rather painful and involves many calls to CO, visits to the CTO, and a couple of bottles of single malt to calm me down afterwards. They have to issue paper tickets together with electronic mile deductions. Woe is you if you attempt to make a change once the ticket has been issued. The process has to be restarted and the tickets have to be reissued.

I'd say of all the transactions I have done with CO agents over the years (and we are talking multiple years of 100K+ flown miles), this is the one that really stretches their ability and knowledge, and wears my patience ragged. Mistakes are made EVERY time (to be fair, sometimes in my favor, in which case I keep my mouth shut) and it is never a stress-free transaction.

In my day job, I work with some fairly complicated material requiring minute attention to detail and a lot of patience, and dealing with CO on the VS codeshare upgrade is always memorable. I can't imagine someone who's not anal and ready to spoil for a catfight with a complicated and elusive adversary not being reduced to tears in frustration over such a transaction.

As for availability, I have been reasonably fortunate. I usually make my arrangements two weeks before the flight, and give the agent a couple of days window around which to fly. Fares can vary all over the place. If you are game, there is a lot more "flexibility" around Y fares than around H or K, but you'll pay for the privilege. On my last upgrade game, I bought my tickets about 2 weeks before the flight, a BOS-LHR-SFO-BOS for $1,900 or so. What really ticked me off is that the BOS-LHR-SFO was VS UC ticketed in K, and cost me about $700+miles. The rest was for a full Y SFO-BOS! I also priced the same route for the SAME DAY but via EWR (on the codeshare) and it was coming out at almost $4,000. So be patient, flexible, and steel yourself for some tough negotiating...

PS It was worth it. I love VS UC. See my trip report in the Trip Reports if interested.

Yeah, agreed on all of that. And especially your closer - Virgin UpperClass simply rocks. Logo pajamas. Best clubrooms in the industry. A bar on the plane. An onboard masseuse and beautician. Virgin UpperClass is as unique a flying experience as I've had and always leaves me lingering for more. For me, there's no better way to get to Europe.

Thank you everyone for the advice. December 2000, I checked in at LHR for a Virgin flight with a CO ticket and was told that I was moved to UC as a thank you from CO. (they just remodled) I still don't know why they did it for me. I freqently travel to Japan on CO in BF, but was very impressed with the Virgin service and think that if I can't get an upgrade for a trip where my company will not pay for the upgrade and I can't use miles, it is better to be in Virgin economy instead of the 777 with only 3 movies. I see now that the key is to buy my ticket within the 30 day window, but my problem is that my company usually wants the cheapest fare for me and my colleagues which is usually the 21 day apex right? As for any chance of an upgrade this trip-- the CO elite line told me not a chance on the outbound since only 2 revenue seats left-- better to try on the return. But there are upgradeable seats available 2 days earlier-- which doesnt do me any good.

Silb, we are not to waitlist hardblocks anymore. I don't know the rationale (I'm the kind of person who always wants to know why) and it doesn't make sense to me either.

Interesting...thanks for the info.

LHR,

If you are constrained by all of this to flying only either CO or VS and are wondering about which coach class is better, I would have to say CO. If you are on a CO 777, do anything you can to get rows 16 or 32, which are bulkhead. I like 32 better myself, although many people here will say 16 is better (16 has a hard partition in front of it; in 32 an AC and HK sides, which are my 4 fave coach seats on the aircraft, you have six-eight feet of open space in front of you, but these seats are close to the restrooms which is what people don't seem to like).

That all being said, while I applaud UpperClass and BusinessFirst - both are great products - I wouldn't say if having to choose coach international it would be CO or VS. My first choice for coach LAX LHR clearly is Air New Zealand, at 34" coach pitch compared to 31" on CO, not to mention awesome coach catering and tasty NZ beers. But I would choose AA, as well, over CO...MRTC makes a big difference on such a long flight.

My two cents.