possible AA defector - need help
 

OK guys: I've read a few threads on here and I want your opinions. I live in northern jersey and fly 95% out of EWR. I've been a faithful AA member since 95 and have been platinum for past couple years now(practically all of my flying is leisure) My dilemma is that the choice for flights out of EWR, esp coast to coast are really awful. I'm looking fora EWR-SEA flight for this month and as usual CO has non-stop. AA has me going thru ORD or STL. I've flown CO couple times in the last few yeards and have had good experiences. Flew them EWR-SEA last year and prefer the 737 to an MD80 anyday. How do you guys feel (especially those in the NYC area) in regards to CO and having status? How is the service in first/business, is it easy to upgrade? IS customer service friendly and responsive?

Thanks in advance

As long as you are fully aware of CO's international upgrade policy (it stinks compared to AA) OR if you don't intend to fly much internationally OR if you do fly internationally, but can handle it in coach, you might find CO fits your needs very nicely.

Non Stop Transcons are tough to get out of EWR for upgrades if you are strictly going to count on the EUA or Elite upgrades.

Even mileage upgrades are tough to get on CO's transcons due to CO's habit of holding back all FC seats from the upgrade bucket until 2 hours prior to flight.

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"Read my lips! No more benefit cuts!"...Gordon Bethune

Yep, transcon upgrades even for platinums are tough. SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, SAN...rough routes to get elite upgardes on, so don't count on it even as a platinum member. You'll hear people say "ooh, I've got 95% platinum percentage for upgrades this year." They ain't flyin these transcons. I'm a SFO resident and I regularly transcon, and take it from me, its rough. On SEA EWR routes in past 12 months, I'm about 5 or 6 of 10 segments upgraded. That's as an "infinite platinum" - the highest level.

All of that is assuming you even care about upgrades. If you just want to fly coach and get miles in the CO system, then fly CO. But otherwise, I'd opt for MRTC on AA and a little longer flight time than cramped in coach on CO with possible occasional upgrades once you reach AT LEAST gold. I wouldn't count on more than 5-10% EWR SEA upgrades as a silver.

In defense of CO, you could always fly NW EWR-DTW/MSP-SEA. With NW, you may have a better chance of upgrading because NW has better F/Y ratios. Also, NW doesn't play as many games as CO with holding back F inventory or refusing manual upgrades when your Elite window has passed and F seats are available for upgrade.

And, of course, NW miles and segments count towards OnePass Elite status!

CO customer service features some very nice agents, but on the whole, it is not very responsive. The agents are known to quote you a rule in response to an issue, rather than offer any kind of flexible solution that addresses your individual situation. The issue seems to be that CO agents are not nearly as empowered as agents on other airlines, when dealing with elites.

A big factor is that as an elite, you do not get access to a dedicated elite desk, you simply get a "priority line" so that you can use one number for most of your concerns, and you generally don't have to wait on hold for any significant amount of time.

In response to complaints/letters, etc., to judge from posts on this forum, they take a while, and are inconsistent. Sometimes issues go completely unresolved after multiple letter. Sometimes CO offers compensation that exceeds what was requested. I would guess the former is much more common than the latter.

To add:

I really like the partnership with NW. Upgrades are abundant on NW, even though the F product is clearly inferior to CO's. One nice feature is that as a NW or CO gold or plat, you can get free upgrades on domestic award tickets.

Here's an experience that I think does a good job to characterize the benefits/ drawbacks of the OP (including the benefits of the partnership with NW).

This weekend I just burned 20,000 miles for a spur-of-the-moment trip: LGA-MSP-SLC-MSP-EWR on NW. I called CO to request the award less than three hours before the first flight took off. Next thing I know I'm in F on a free ticket for what is effectively a walk-up. I ended up in F for the first 3 flights. I might have gotten upgraded on the 4th, but when the flight was delayed due to whether, I wanted to switch to another flight... Up until now, everything about this experience is GREAT!

So, when I'm in MSP, they announce that the MSP-EWR flight will be delayed by at least an hour and half--also all flights into JFK and LGA look to be delayed too. However, there is a flight to HPN scheduled to leave at the same time as my flight to EWR. So I run to that gate on the other side of the airport, get there about 20 minutes before departure time to find that there are plenty of empty seats. So, I ask the G/A if I can get on as a standby. She says that she can't let me on since I'm supposed to go into EWR, that the only way would be to call and get myself added to a "standby list." I call CO, and the agent tells me that since there is no award availability on this flight, she can't book me on it--she doesn't care that scheduled flight is going to be 1:30 late AND that there are empty seats on this flight. She then says that if the G/A lets me on this flight, she would be breaking the rules. I then politely ask the G/A to please let me on. She seemed afraid to break the rules, and somewhat uninclined to do the work to change my ticket, but I won her over, and I got her to let me on.

My impression is that if I had been in the same situation with AA, as a plat, they would not hesitate to let me switch to a plane with empty seats to the same metro area if my plane were delayed.

So, I think this story pretty well embodies some of the pros and cons of being a OP member.

[This message has been edited by aparsuites (edited 04-30-2002).]

Just something else to remember. If you are Platinum on AA that is only their mid tier. Platinum on CO is top tier.

AA Gold = CO Silver = CO 25,000 miles
AA Plat = CO Gold = CO 50,000 miles
AA Exp Plat = CO Plat = C0 75,000 miles

If you are trying to get transcon upgrades as a AA Plat/CO Gold --- forget about it. It isn't gonna happen. There are lots of plats sitting in the back on those flights.

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Rachel
CO - Platinum
Hilton - Diamond
SPG - Platinum

You also need 100,000 miles for Exp Plat on AA and only 75,000 miles for Plat on CO.

Which is completely in line with the extra benefits afforded by ExPlat such as VIPOW upgrades etc...

As far as switching from AA to CO, understand what you're getting before you make the switch.

* You'll NEVER be on a widebody for a transcon. CO only runs widebodies on international, and also on domestic positioning flights such as IAH-EWR.

* Domestic upgrades are going to be harder to come by even as a top-tier Plat, and the coach product you'll be in if not in F is inferior to AA.

* Forget about international upgrades... search the board (it won't take much lookin') and you'll see why a lot of us went over to AA. The int'l upgrade policy is pathetic. That said, the actual int'l business product is superior to AAs. The seats are more comfortable, the service is more individual. CO has a **** good J product. I'd place it in between C and F on AA (which is where it's supposed to be).

* You'll get decent food (even in coach... some may disagree) and the FAs overall will have better attitudes and be nicer than AAs. CO does not have a 'prison matron' problem like AA does.

* Expect a MAJOR drop off in customer service level. I've had one or two bad apples at AA but for the most part everyone has *really* shined, even the run of the mill AAdvantage agents. Contrast that to CO where even the Plat 'desk' agents are a crap-shoot.

* The P clubs offer free booze whereas the ACs don't http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

* Expect a major devaluation in the miles you earn. OnePass miles are easy to earn but the rewards cost a *lot* more. PlanAAhead awards aren't difficult to get, standard level rewards on CO are almost impossible. It's about a 50% devaluation in your mileage.

You probably should be getting a new travel agent. With CO, HP, and NW to choose from, why would a CO Platinum from New Orleans be flying from the East Coast to the West Coast on AA?

You can? On NW? On CO? On HP? Can you point me to the rule(s) that say(s) so? I have never heard of such a thing. Thanks.

I'm on the same side as you, but I think this may go a little too far. There have been some 67's SFO EWR at least as of a few months ago, though they seem to be gone for now. I think there may be some 67's out of LAX right now if I recall the latest flight schedule correctly.

I think you would at least have to say there are occasional 67's at some times of the year and depending on CO's tinkering with their international schedule. But its inconsistent and very sporadic.

And, with CO removing BusinessFirst seats down from 34 to 20, you're much less likely to get an upgrade on a '67 if you do get onto one.

From a service and process standpoint American is far better.

wow.... guys thanks for the responses....lots of good input. I guess I should've given you more info on my flying patterns.

I fly mostly domestic and all leisure. Work is only about 3 trips a year and all in coach. I usually fly coach for small trips or up/down coast. For my transcon trips I upgrade and seldom have a problem on AA. The majority of my flying is to LAX, SFO, ORD(as a destination and not just connection) OAK, SEA, MCO, FLL, LAS.

Another thing I'm interested in is the ability to upgrade a companion using my electronic upgrades. Easy enough usually on AA.

Thanks again for your input. I love this site!

bry99

I didn't say that I fly SFO/LAX through EWR. I like miles but not that much.

I was just stating the fact that transcon flights out of EWR are the hardest domestic upgrade to get complimentary with status at any level. EWR has the largest concentration of elites.

Sorry not to be more specific. On NORTHWEST operated flights, Gold and Plat Elites from both WP and OP can upgrade when flying on an award ticket. I did it this weekend both out of LGA and SLC. I had seen this mentioned before in this forum, so I was not surprised.

When I booked the award, I asked the CO agent if upgrades were allowed on NW on free tickets, and she said No Way. When I mentioned that I thought NW did this, she said, "Well if they are, they're not telling us about it."

So, at check-in I asked to be upgraded, and at first the agent indicated that this couldn't be done on an award ticket for a Gold. Then she asked around, and someone who appeared to be a supervisor confirmed that YES, this was standard procedure for award tickets. The initial agent had seemingly thought that this perk was available only to plats.

Leaving SLC, the agent clearly knew that it was an award ticket, and while there was not space available to upgrade me to, he didn't hesitate to put me on the standby list. When I got to the gate, my F boarding pass had already been printed out.

I'm not sure whether or not this is a published benefit, but it seems to be easy enough to get on NW, while on CO, they would likely quote you a rule from the Elite Member's Guide and then point you to the E-Service Center so you could check yourself in.

[This message has been edited by aparsuites (edited 04-30-2002).]

Despite the difficulty upgrading on CO's transco routes as mentioned above, I sit on CO's first more often than on AA's first (I am a frequently flyer on both airlines). But if you are unfortunately stuck with CO's 737 transco seats, you will miss the MRTC.

Two things I am favor CO over AA is CO will upgrade their elites if there is first class seats available. I even see CO pull non-revs off the first to accommodate CO’s elites. It's something unthinkable with AA.

CO also upgrades you with your companions (if you are gold or Plat) FREE, another unthinkable with AA. AA will require you either use electronic upgrades or miles to upgrade your companion.

Bookexp,

Since CO companion upgrades fall below even CO NW HP silver members in the pecking order, I can almost guarantee you that there is almost NO - THAT IS ZERO - chance of actually GETTING a companion UG on a transcon.

When actual platinum members are having a hard time, you can simply forget about companion UG's on these routes. They are a thing of the past - a theoretically available but in reality undeliverable benefit.

[This message has been edited by thesilb (edited 04-30-2002).]

That's an incomplete statement...companions of PLAT/GOLD's would indeed trump any Silver for airport upgrades...The pecking order is this...at the airport ONLY. (If there are any upgrades left...you are correct in that there probably...but not definitely won't be any left)

At the airport:
PLAT
PLAT companion
GOLD
GOLD companion
SILVER
SILVER companion.

I have done many...many....many CO transcons out if EWR in my lifetime....it all depends on the day of week, time, equipment etc...upgrades for Golds,Silvers,companions on transcons can indeed be had although most of the time it won't happen...I would tend to believe that it is more than the "NO-THAT IS ZERO" or the "5-10%" mentioned above.
The upgrades are not getting any harder for me(out of EWR)...I'm close to 100% this year on both CO and NW...42 segments flown so far this year.
My mileage hasn't been devalued at all (except the non-peak 20K eliminated)...haven't had trouble redeeming..and always at STANDARD mileage.
One thing....there really is NO disputing the Int'l upgrade policy....CO's just flat-out stinks!!



[This message has been edited by IM4Travel (edited 04-30-2002).]

Thesilb, I got one for my son EWR-SEA three weeks ago. So companion UGs do still happen. But they no longer clear upgrades until 10 minutes before pushback, so everyone on "the list" has to board and take their Y seats, then they come back just before the door closes and usher you forward if you've made the cut. It's indiscreet and gets the whole cabin staring at you. And it's disorganized: often a new pax arrives bearing a BP with your Y seat number on it before the agent arrives with your good upgrade news.

We always used to be able to confirm companion upgrades two, sometimes three hours before departure, but now you sweat it out right up until the departure minute. It's a bad experience and almost not worth subjecting yourself if you could nail something down for sure in advance with AA-type VIPOWs instead.

No need to burn a (precious) VIPow for a domestic upgrade-- 15K AA miles each way, each passenger and you can get it done well in advance, avoiding some of the above-described drama. Of course, as in everything in life, free = more better.

In the final analysis-- if one has little/no international travel planned, CO is well worth a try.

BearX220- I've had the exact opposite experience as recently as last Sunday...EWR-LAS.... PLAT companion upgrade at 45 minutes before push back...no rescuing from the back...no staring...no embarrassment...I guess each situation is different.

Interesting. Weird. And in my case there wasn't much apparent competition... we left with two empty F seats. I'd sure like to see some consistency return to this game.

[This message has been edited by BearX220 (edited 04-30-2002).]

Well, we were discussing heavy transcon business routes and now you mention what is a huge leisure route. I will admit CO into Orlando, Vegas...not as tough. But that's apples and oranges to SFO, LAX, SEA.

I'll admit I was too "negative" above. That's just because it's changed so much for the worse lately out of or into the west coast. But I still maintain that companion UG's are probably 30-50% chance for platinum companions, 20-30% for gold companions, and 5-10% for silver companions. That would be my best guess having flown at least 100,000 miles of transcons on CO metal last year and probably 30,000 so far this year.

Now you can go to the upper end of that tier for Tuesdays and especially Saturdays, and right smack to the lower end of that spread for Sundays, especially, and Fridays.

IM4Travel, if you lived with SFO as you're CO gateway, you'd be far more bummed out that you are.

I can totally sympathize with your situation. CO is weak out west and that's well known...just out of curiosity...what influenced you to choose to fly CO being from SFO? That wouldn't be my first choice knowing their route structure. I'm assuming that you once lived near a CO hub...or something to that effect. The only reason that I used the LAS example was because that was the MOST RECENT. I have flown many transcons including EWR to SEA,SFO and SAN and have received intermittent companion upgrades. Sometimes it works..sometimes it doesn't.

I think it's closer to 0% for silver companions, since companion upgrades are not a benefit for silver elites. Perhaps an agent here or there may upgrade at their discretion if they run completely out of elites, platinum and gold companions, and non-revs, but this is probably rare.

I lived in Texas for many years (AUS & SAT) and at that time I qualified the five years in a row for "infinite elite." Then my career brought me to San Francisco. I'll probably be here until I retire. I've got lifetime on CO, so I a CO lifetime elite stranded out at SFO. Heck, at least they fly here at all!

Well, SEA ain't exactly the Crossroads of the CO World, either. They're down to about eight or nine ops/day out of here. In the past five years I've happened to have clients in New Jersey and Houston, so it's been beneficial... but with HP out of the mix, CO will definitely have little to offer those of us west of Laramie.

Hey, at least you SEA folk still have your NW flight to HNL. Ours was cancelled (along with our CO service to HNL, too). http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif