IAH-MAD
 

is nonstop Madrid service in the works for Houston? Surely there's a market for it. I think Houston is severely underutilized as a longhaul market by its incumbent carrier.

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Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
~ConcordeBoy

CO's European strategy is to focus as much transatlantic flying as possible ex-EWR, which has a massive O&D market and excellent connection opportunities from all parts of the U.S. Even if enough overall traffic existed to support IAH-MAD, there may not be enough high-yield pax out there to make the operation profitable.

Understandable. It seems having Air Europa provide the metal for that route would be better. I just dont think that a market with that much potential should continue sans nonstop service.

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Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
~ConcordeBoy

FWIW AA does not operate DFW-MAD service.

So are you saying you dont think the region has the traffic to generate it? Or are you saying that that would be an advantage to CO should it choose to operate Texas-Spain. I just think that if Delta could pull that off from Georgia, surely south Texas could follow suit.

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Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
~ConcordeBoy

ConcordeBoy:

Times have changed. For a while now airline growth, especially entry into new markets abroard, will be extrememly limited. Airlines will remain conservative with their expansion. So Continental for the most part will only expand transatlantic service out of Newark, as that is their transatlantic hub.

I fail to see what the market is for IAH-MAD. Whatever local passengers there are served sufficiently with a connection through Newark. Connecting traffic is handled through Newark. Most markets that could connect through Houston can connect just as well though EWR (west coast, southwest, etc.), while EWR can also handle connections from the eastern seaboard. So, at best, a IAH flight would only cannibolize that EWR flight.

Atlanta is different because ATL is a very powerful connecting hub. Delta has made ATL primary for connections. JFK is mostly OD.

Finally, ConcordeBoy, where do you get these bizarre ideas? If I were to say that I heard a rumor that Continental was considering flying nonstop from College Station, TX, to Singapore, would I give that rumor any credit? I could say that CLL-SIN is just as likely as IAD-MAD.

The problem with that analogy is that DL's ATL Worldport is twice the size of CO's IAH hub. Simply put, DL can generate enough feed to send a plane almost anywhere on Earth nonstop from Atlanta.

Houston simply doesn't make too much sense as a major European gateway. Its geographic position is such where someone flying in on the West Coast would get to Europe faster using connections via EWR, BOS, ORD, or even ATL. Midwesterners can take advantage of ORD or DTW. Southeasterners will utilize ATL, CLT, or go via a Northeast gateway.

In CO's eyes, it makes more sense to use the equipment on a run to Latin America, since IAH is in an ideal geographic location, not to mention the strong O&D and connecting traffic.

Don't ask me to quote exactly when & where, but Continental has already stated in the past that, for now, Houston's hub is best served for Latin American international connections and Newark is for European connections. However, when the new fifth terminal is finished at IAH in a couple of years they've said they plan on adding more nonstops IAH-Europe. (Continental already has the rights to fly nonstop IAH to Rome or Milan, for example.) A Houston Chronicle articled mentioned IAH-Madrid as a probable first new Europe nonstop to be added, not so much for the IAH-MAD traffic but instead for the MAD-Latin America traffic, which makes sense. In the meanwhile, though, everything's just wait & see. (The widely announced but never-happened service to Argentina is a good example of no certainty, though.)

I would expect IAH-FRA (already served by LH) or IAH-FCO to be the next transatlantic destinations for CO.

Thank you Eurofly-
My sentiments exactly, and that should answer BizJet's question.

I doubt FCO.. more likely MXP considering that basically the only intercontinental flights that will still remain at FCO by year's end will be PHL and NYC.


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Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
~ConcordeBoy

i'm sure CO (Continental Airlines) has many high-priced MBAs that do nothing all day but analyze potential routes. i'm not going to tell them how to do their jobs. if there is enough business to support a route, i just assume they will start the route. otherwise, i assume they won't.

Euroflyer mentioned a very important point, lots of passengers who have to fly to Middle America don`t have any really alternative to Iberia, which operates 2 daily non-stops to MEX and 2 or 3 to MIA from MAD plus many more flights into that region.

If CO is able to generate enough feeder service in Spain and southern Europe, that route could be very successful.

Middle America seems to be the main target for the upcoming AMS-IAH nonstop as well, as mentioned earlier, Iberia really dominates into that region from basicly all over europe.

With KLM connections from all over europe, that route coudb be a moneymaker as well.

And the yield to Middle America seems to be much higher in comparison to most of the north american markets, especially from europe...

I can understand what you're saying, but I think you have a little too much faith.... remember such routes as UA's JFK-HKG, CO's Greensboro-Greensville, AA's SJC-CDG, DL's JFK-NRT, etc???

Look at IAH-Montreal as an example of why the IAH-Madrid flight might happen: I'm not sure how much Houston/Montreal traffic there is, but it's obvious from the flight schedule (leaves Montreal early, returns Montreal very late at night) that it's designed for Canadians to connect to Latin America. (Plus, in a Houston Chronicle article IAH-Madrid was specifically mentioned by CO as a possible flight for the new IAH terminal, since it would be a connection for Madrid-Latin America.)

When is the scheduled date of completion for the new international terminal? Also, will Terminal D lose its int'l status?

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Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
~ConcordeBoy

I think Terminal E is supposed to finished in 2004. Continental will have all its international flights there. I think they're paying most or all of the costs, so it sounds like they'll get the whole terminal for themselves, with other international airlines still at Terminal D.

Surely they'll allow KLM in there also, dont you think?

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Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
~ConcordeBoy

Probably waiting on ETOPS certification for the RJ's.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

BizJet, don't be so hard on ConcordeBoy... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

As someone who's more familiar with the Mexico market than the average FT'er (check out the AeroCalifornia forum; just flew back from Mexico yesterday), I agree that IAH-MAD makes sense on a few levels:

1. Connections with Air Europa throughout Spain. It makes plenty of sense that CO should link it's largest hub with a partner.

2. Houston, given it's demographics, has something of a connection with Spain-- more so than with Italy, for example.

3. Houston has service from many Latin America cities that do not have direct service to EWR. I'd say CO is easily the most influential US carrier in Mexico, and a trip from many of these Mexican destinations would require a double connection xxx-IAH-EWR-MAD. The same can be said about connections via IAH-AMS. From what I know from the dozens of friends and acquaintences who have solicited my help for Mexico-Europe tickets, many are not willing to make multiple connections in the name of brand loyalty. A single IAH connection is acceptable.

The route would be _very_ high yield because fares from Mexico to Europe are _not_ cheap!! And as far as equipment, how about one of those EMB5500s-- the super long range RJ with a BF seat?!?! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Seriously, though, I think CO could at least start with a 757 summer seasonal, and work up from there.

As an aside, a buddy of mine flew yesterday MTY-MEX-MAD on a full C on AM. $3200 one way that could have gone to CO.....

Viajero Joven, The 757-200, even with ETOPS, would splash into the Atlantic about a thousand miles short of Madrid. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Technicalities.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif We never get to use those rafts, anyways. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Viajero Joven,

Tus ideas tienen mucho sentido. Since you seem to know something about this, maybe you can help me out with this question:

What happens with immigration? Given that for every int. flight arriving to the U.S. they make you pass through customs/immigration before you catch your connecting flight, how would this work for someone who didn't have papers to get into the U.S. Do you have to get some type of visa just to connect? If not, do they have a problem of people pretending to connect to other countries but really staying in the U.S.?

FWIW, I thought that CO flew between IAH and MAD in the past. I fly to MAD numerous times a year, and when I have searched for itineraries (this past summer for example), I have have been offered the itinerary: LGA-IAH-MAD. The only thing I can think of to negate this is the idea that it was offering me an extension of the EWR-MAD flight, but this seems unlikely.

Bingo! I can't speak for the IAH-MAD routing, but I can tell you that CO63 MAD-IAH is actually CO63 MAD-EWR on a 777 and "continuing service" as CO63 from EWR-IAH on a 764.

aparsuites, los pasajeros en transito por los Estados Unidos no necesitan visas-- solo que no pueden salir de la area de migracion del aeropuerto. Das cuenta que la area de migracion en IAH esta debajo de los salones de espera-- y se puede entrar el avion desde arriba o desde abajo. Cada dia hay gente que se queda dentro la area encerrada.

Ademas...... en algun entonces es posible que el vuelo EWR-MAD empezo en IAH-- pero por cuentiones de migracion, un pasajero en transito por los EUA debe subirse en un vuelo sin escala, no en un vuelo directo con 1 escala.


Translation:

Passengers in transit through the US can't exit the immigration area of the airport. Consider that the IAH immigration area is below the waiting area-- and one can enter the plane from above or below. Every day there are people who stay within the closed area.

And......... at one time, the EWR-MAD flight may have begun in IAH-- but for immigration reasons, a passenger transiting the US has to take a nonstop flight, not a direct 1 stop flight.


[This message has been edited by Viajero Joven (edited 04-16-2002).]

Gracias por la respuesta.

TRANSLATION:

Thanks for the response.

Is this setup where int. passengers can stay within the secure area particular to IAH or can similar connections be made at EWR/JFK?

I ask in particular because I have some Mexican friends who I'd like to give reward tickets to Spain, but first I'd need to know how this issue is delt with.

[This message has been edited by aparsuites (edited 04-16-2002).]

aparsuites, you just struck the core of the benefit for the IAH-MAD nonstop: there are transit facilities like this in about every major international airport--- but the key is, the flights into the country and out of the country must be nonstop. If someone wants to fly from Guadalajara to Madrid, they simply cannot use CO if CO does not serve both cities nonstop from a common airport.

FWIW, KLM may be about the only alternative, with nonstops from MEX to AMS-- and Azteca has some connections into MEX from other Mexican cities.

IAH-MAD won't have the high-yield O&D business traffic that MIA-MAD and NYC-MAD have, but I think that there are enough conncetion possibilites that IAH-MAD could work out with a 764. AA used to have DFW-MAD service, but moved it to MIA to take advantage of MIA's O&D base and better Latin American connections. MAD is one of AA's biggest cash cows.

How about you and Viajero compromise... fly a 762 there; it's got 767 range, but 757 number of seats http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

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Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
~ConcordeBoy

OK, a 767 sounds fine to me. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Does Co have any to spare??

FWIW: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000008.html

Looks like Iberia is pulling out of the Central America--Spain market. That means: 1. more pax for CO, but 2. en route pax would need a visa for the US. Hmm...... I don't know how official this is, but it's something to consider.

Sorry, I'll wait for the ETOPS Trans-Pacific version of the Jungle Jet. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif