Too many complainers
 

Is CO perfect? No. But it really is better than a lot of other programs out there (for domestic travel). I defected from AA 3 months ago and am very happy.

Here are some bullet points:

* I only was in first class 30-40% of the time as a Plat on American. You dont get an auto upgrade on American. I have been in first every time except for 1 time with CO

* You get the opportunity to try and upgrade on multiple airlines (NW, America West, CO

* The Presidents club offers free liquor, yogurt, cookies, snacks and you get to use America Wests lounges as well. On American there are crappy snacks, you have to pay for liquor and you have to ask a bartender for your free soft drink so you have to tip so its not free anymore

* CO NW flights tend to be less expensive from my airport SNA

* First Class food is far better than the first class food in American. Especialy breakfast. The whole cinnamon roll thing!

I can't believe someone got a fruit basket from CO as a way for them to say "I'm sorry" and they complained on this board that the carrot cake in the fruit basket was "dry". For crying out loud!

I just flew in from Orlando to SNA and my Northwest flight was cancelled or delayed. Since I was upgraded on NW to first, they bought me a fist class ticket on Delta without me saying anything. They didnt have to do that and I know it cost them a lot of money to actually buy a 1st class ticket.

I invite you to fly AA for domestic travel. You will see that CO program is better. its not perfect, but its better. You'll be back after a year.

Diamond Dog: your uprgrade percentages will be fine if you stick w/ NW metal more often. The crux of the issue is that CO & NW profess to have the same type of system, yet NW's works quite well whereas CO's is questionable.

Since you do not live in a hub, you are obligated to connect virutally anywhere you go. Those of us who live in hubs would often like to fly direct, but CO is playing games with the release of seats. Although, for a few flights it looks like NW is taking a page from CO's book.

For your benefit:

CO - SNA/IAH
(Tue Mar-19)
A4 F0, A2 F0, A4 F0, A2 F0
(Wed Mar-20)
A6 F0, A4 F0, A9 F5, A4 F0

CO - SNA/EWR
(Tue Mar-19)
A4 F0, A0 F0
(Wed Mar-20)
A1 F0, A4 F0

NW - SNA/MSP
(Tue Mar-19)
P9 F5, P7 F2, P6 F1
(Wed Mar-20)
P9 F3, P9 F3, P8 F0

NW - SNA/DTW
(Tue Mar-19)
P9 F4
(Wed Mar-20)
P9 F0

EWR,

Just so you know. I rarely get the upgrade via e-mail notification due to the holding of seats. However I get them a check in. i dont care when I get them, as long as I gt them. However it would be nicer to KNOW i got them 5 days in advance.

Could you explain all of those numbers you posted? I am sure its very valuable information, I just dont know how to decipher it http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

On CO, A is a revenue First Class seat, F is a FC seat that you can get via mileage upgrade or Elite upgrade.

The reason that you're not getting the e-mail upgrades is because CO is holding the seats in the revenue section.

To the best of my knowledge, on NW P is revenue FC and F is mileage/Elite upgrade.

The way things are going now, you may get your upgrade on the first segment, i.e. SNA-IAH, but find yourself in coach from IAH-points unknown.

Here's a scenario that rings true recently. Take a look at this itinerary:

6:45 am SNA - 12:05 pm IAH
1:30 pm IAH - 4:45 pm MCO

Let's say your IAH-SNA segment is A6 F0 from 3-days prior straight thru the 3 hours before the flight. Then all the A seats get converted to F seats, so A6 F6. You get the upgrade at the aiport/check-in, etc...

The agent also checks you in for your next flight, IAH-MCO. But you don't get the upgrade then for IAH-MCO because availability is still being held as A9 F0, there are no upgradeable seats.

At ~10:30am CST the FC seats for the IAH-MCO segments are released from A to F. There's only one problem, you're in the air from SNA until 12:05pm. By nature of your checking in for the flight, it appears that you are not included in the new EUA system*. So you land in IAH and inquire about whether you cleared "the FC standby list." Nope, checked in full sir, sorry... But, if you were standing there at 11am you could get it, even if you were a Silver...

* happened to me twice last week.

You are correct, we are complaining... there are all these little IT glitches are are not allowing the system to run smoothly.

too many complainers???

nooooo....i completely disagree. this forum is a love fest.

NOT

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

by the way, flew to Orlando International Airport from Newark International Airport this morning in first class (fare code, who knows--who cares?).

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Too Many Complainers? I think not. Don't forget that Continental has been screwing around with its domestic upgrade program, devaluing miles, making international upgrades very tough to get (including getting a confirmed seat when playing the game or using miles for an award ticket), limiting award ticket inventory in order to sell more rule buster awards, has a CEO who tells outright lies to the customer, etc.

Tell me, what change has Continental made in the last six months to actually benefit the OnePass Elite consumer?

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"We will not cut benefits from OnePass, our industry-leading frequent flyer program, because we remain committed to rewarding our most loyal customers."

-- Gordon Bethune (Continental's CEO) two weeks before significantly cutting benefits of the OnePass program

Tell me, what change has Continental made in the last six months to actually benefit the OnePass Elite consumer?

Although it pertains to more than just elites...the addition of KLM as a partner I would view as a benefit.

Ummm *scratching head*..... Oh yeah, the partnership with KLM

But, when you balance the gain of KLM with the loss of Air France as a partner, it's pretty much a wash!

Oh, yeah! Almost forgot! CO just gained Azteca as a partner! Now you can get OP miles on your next flight to Tijuana!!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

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"Read my lips! No more benefit cuts!"...Gordon Bethune

I agree with YOU, DiamondDog. I defected from both UA and AA a couple of years back. This year, as a CO Platinum, I am 26/28 legs, all on CO metal. CO offers the best product for my travel style. There are others in these forums that have travel styles that make other airlines more attractive, and they should make the smart choice and switch carriers (as some have done, and I compliment them on their choice), and stop complaining about CO. The type of complaining that they are doing is not constructive - - it is only meant to demean CO. The right thing to do is speak with your checkbook and take your business to the carrier that makes you happiest.
My daddy always said "Never try to teach a pig to sing - - - it frustrates the teacher, and it annoys the pig." That being said, in life you will always find individuals who get their kicks from being annoying!

Are you agreeing then that CO is a pig, metaphorically speaking?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif

I'm greatful for the so-called "complainers". They provide us with their personal experience, observations and things they may have found out about the Onepass program and CO which, if we were to believe CO public relations and the uncritical business press, we would never find out.

It allows us as CO flyers (and as frequent flyers in general) to make informed choices, even to switch loyalties, based upon our needs vis-a-vis program merits.

The name calling and labelling of others on the board is out of line and a waste of space. The irony here (apparant to those of us who have frequented this board a while) is that one of the main perpetrators of such attacks apologized before switching programs and vindicating those he attacked.

**Feel free to disagree and present your own facts and experiences.** BUT, I would propose that the next time a thread like this turns up with ad hominem attacks, namecalling, labelling, that we do NOT respond in order to isolate the thread and the perpetrator.

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CO Platinum

AF.... a WASH... with KLM...??? Are you joking?? I'm not a big fan of AF at all. I would think that this is definitely an UPGRADE or BENEFIT to us all. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Try and get CO reward tix on the Concorde with KLM!!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I realize that AF isn't too hot otherwise, but then neither is KLM! That's why I called the AF-KL partner swap a wash...trading one third-rate partner for another.



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"Read my lips! No more benefit cuts!"...Gordon Bethune

re: the actual topic...

The comments that are listed here are the result of personal experiences on CO. The fact that they are negative is simply an indication of how people feel they are being treated, or whether management is being honest.

You may clasify me as a complainer, and that is fine, because I am complaining. I am pointing out that suddenly the Platinum Elite status that I earned isn't doing me much good anymore. The fact that I took a somewhat unnecessary trip at the end of the year to cross-over from Gold to Plat was potentially a waste of money. The fact that I have sometimes taken an inconvenient flight time so that I could earn "status miles" may somehow become irrelevant because I fly on the "cheapest available" rate.

I quick perusal of the DL forum will show DL Elites livid about inventory management screw-ups, complaints about LUser fares, etc.

If you look at the NW & AA forums there isn't really any hardcore bashing going on.

There's an old cliche that states that if you make a customer happy they'll tell one person, make then angry they'll tell nine people. I think that's what's going on here...

[This message has been edited by EWR-COflyer (edited 03-16-2002).]

There is a hugh difference between being negative and posting negative information. I am of the opinion that most people are posting the latter (i.e. personal flight data and their theories as to what is occuring, which I find useful). And the fact that the information is negative is due to CO.

The issue people have with CO appears to be an expectation of service based on express or implied promises made by CO that are recently being unfulfilled.

This is exacerbated by the fact that the consumers are currently uninformed by CO about the facts and rationale for the changes that are resulting in the unfulfilled expectations. We are left to speculate, which is human nature.

I have stayed out of this EUA discussion for the past few days, but I am deeply concerned. As I have stated previously, I buy my tickets in advance in blocks to obtain the lowest fare class for my weekly travels. My current block is due for an additional purchase in mid-April. If the situation does not change, or at least if we are not given the courtesy of explaination from CO (don't they EVER post here?), I AM OUT OF HERE by mid-April.

My new airline of choice...........?

Jet Blue. One reason is practical: they are one of the few to fly my route non-stop at a reasonable price.

Another reason is symbolic: Jet Blue can not break a FC upgrade promise to me, as they have no FC. I have wasted too much time chasing the elusive FC upgrade on CO. At first it was fun, but that stopped when the rules repeatedly were changed without the courtesy of an explaination of what the heck is now going on. I would rather be 0 for 104 on Jet Blue than 36 for 104 on CO and feel duped.

A couple of questions: The Jet Blue seats seem to have more leg room and width than the CO coach seats. Is this true?

Does anyone know of another non-stop carrier between MCO and EWR besides Jet Blue and CO? Thank you.



[This message has been edited by Joey (edited 03-16-2002).]

Joey: Jetblue flies into JFK, not EWR. DL also services EWR-MCO direct.

I flew them twice in 2000 and found their service to be fine... JFK is really inconvenient for me to get to, and Jetblue has too limited service for my travels.

I can't recall anything about seat pitch, etc, but the free live TV was really cool.

Then again, if you're going to fly into JFK, why take an AA challenge and at least enjoy MRTC from MCO-JFK.

[This message has been edited by EWR-COflyer (edited 03-16-2002).]

although it was probably a bit disconcerting on the morning of September 11th...

I meant "the greater NYC area", not EWR specifically, sorry.

AA does not seem to have many early AM direct flights from and late PM direct flights to MCO. Or am I mistaken?

[This message has been edited by Joey (edited 03-16-2002).]

Since you are obviously taking a shot at me, let me defend myself. Take a look at the context of the sentence:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/004723.html

To me it is clear that the emoticon would suggest that I was being facetious with respect to the carrot loaf. I am sorry that you feel as though I was complaining in that thread; I assure you I was not.

Also, some of us are EX-COmplainers. We got tired of the often-overrated sop of domestic upgrades in exchange for nigh-impossibility of international reward travel, for continued ongoing year-after-year diminishment of reward value, and, most recently, out and out falsehoods from the top.

(Personally, I'm happier to have my own row in coach than be part of a full cabin in domestic first...)

mmmmmmm

Just thinking out loud here....but isn't a complaint about people complaining still a complaint.

And would not in fact, that complaint, just add to the other complaints and make even more complaints on a forum that some people say has way too many complaints.

Gee..I wonder why. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Phoebe

"...you want to complain? Look at these shoes! I've only had them for 3 weeks and the heel's worn right through. "


http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

http://www.montypython.net/cgi-bin/d...i?arguskit.wav

Who is complaining?, I just got my EUA's for next my HP flights next week. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

4/4 on HP next week for me http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Somehow the grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence.

I have absolutely no complaints about CO. The past five years I have about equally split may flying between CO and UA - about 30,000-40,000 mile a year on each. In my mind, CO is better, and because of that they are getting the majority of my business this year. My upgrade percentage on UA the past five years is about 50% (as a premier) and about 60% last year. Last year on CO my upgrade percentage was 100% (as a silver elite). So far this year still at 100% (4 for 4). However, the main difference for me is the attitude of the people. CO people seem to be quite happy to be working for CO. UA personnel always seem to be in various states of unhappiness. Who could blame them considering all of the various labor problems they have expeienced lately. I think I will stick with CO for the time being.

IMHO, one of the reasons many of us are so displeased with CO is because CO has been unable to meet the expectations it has set for itself. CO spends a great amount of time and energy convincing us that it is the best airline with the best customer service and frequent flyer programs. When CO cannot or will not live up to these expectations, we are disappointed. Inconsistent EUA's, an amazingly BAD international upgrade policy, NRTC (no room throughout coach) and highly variable customer service experiences have left many of us wondering why CO continues to toot a horn that no longer blows true.

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Hell hath no fury like that of an elite frequent flyer in coach.

I am not real smart, but I can lift heavy things.

Complaints are a good thing - keeps any company on its toes...

But, I personally think some of the complaints are out of line. As a person who runs a business where customers can actually publicly criticize us and in turn impact our sales, I always find it interesting the things people complain about.

If you dont like CO, stop flying them. You can slice and dice it a million ways - and list all the reasons you cant, but if their treatment of you is so horrible, leave the airline. Tell your friends, but leave the airline - Use your miles where you can, transfer your status where appropriate, but leave it.

What the heck is it that keeps those that really are ticked off with them flying their metal? I just dont get it.

I left UAL in the Summer of Hell - and have a stack of $50.00 gift certificates that wont ever get used and a bunch of miles that lay dormant until I find a reason to fly the airline.

In all honesty, I dont understand what you expect from CO - There must be "enough" revenue passengers on these flights and until there isnt, they dont really have to change. I sit next to lots of people on my flights who swear by the airline...

Those that participate in these forums are a tiny slice of the business CO has - a tiny fraction. I humbly suggest for your own sanity the next time you check-in for a flight, that its with another airline, because from every single flight I've been on lately, the list of Platinums on the waiting list for upgrades is quite high. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

HATEUAL ~~~before you --we were!!!!
Before you decided to make a change we were with CO --- faithful and true.
We had a good thing going on an airline that appeared to appreciate our being there --- from worst to first ---

HATEUAL ~~~before you --we were!!!!
Before you decided to make a change we were with CO --- faithful and true.
We had a good thing going on an airline that appeared to appreciate our being there --- from worst to first ---
We endured the growing pains --- we enjoyed being a part of the turn-around and we believed Gordon when he said every month "thanks for flying CO" --- but what we are seeing now is NOT the CO that enticed us to fly them (loyally) but rather an airline that has even recently "lied" to us about our benefits and even possibly changing the "elite" upgrade process (without notification) and what has become a real boondogle the International/Hawaii upgrade situation.
Complaining --- with every right to do so!
We rode from worst to first!!!!!

You have every right to complain. I did not say you cant. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Just that what good do you think it will do you? You still spend time on the airline I presume and there is something that holds you back from leaving.

I guess I dont understand why you are willing to torment yourself that way. If upgrades suck, then switch airlines and build things back up.

There was time when NWA was king of the hill and some say it is now CO. Other than GE and P&G, very few businesses stay on top over many years.

Gordo can just as easily tell you, "well, you helped us get from worst to first, now help us get through these tough times as our decisions in the past with upgrades have impacted us significantly and we need to straighten things out."

In any event, I dont think CO is running an entitlement airline. It is a business to make profit, and I still believe that all the funny cracks one makes about HoKey, et al, does not matter, if their planes are full.

Now that you mention it hateUAL, CO is NOT making a profit right now, and its long-term prospects are, despite the hype, dubious at best given the company's massive debt load accrued during the Lorenzo and Bethune years. Not to mention of course that most of CO's labor contracts are coming up for renegotiation later this year, which will result in a huge increase in labor costs. If CO had to operate with the labor costs of UA, AA, DL, US, or even NW, it would have lost money like everyone else.

FWIW, it is my personal opinion that NW will again rise to #1 by, say, the end of the decade, as is improves on its customer service and relatively good financials.

And all this, mind you, comes from a die-hard CO fan....

Even more reason to restrict upgrades -

Again, if people are willing to pay, why wouldnt they?

Dont know about you, but all my recent flights have been jam packed.

You will agree, the times today are part of CO's problems. I read a great article some months ago - I think it was in the Economist, that detailed the general state of the airline business since its dawn.

The crux of the article was that the airline business is a crappy business to be in. In recent times, most of the money these airlines have made was in the .com boom and stakes in things like pricline.com held by the airlines.

Dont get me wrong, the present situation is not a pleasant one. But I again humbly suggest that you talk with your money, not with funny acronyms.

The past is irrelevant - do business with any organization and you will find that it has problems handling its success - few exceptions not-withstanding.

The planes may be full, but yields are in the toilet. Remember, full flights do not equal a profit. Any airline economist or observer will tell you that business travelers are simply not as willing to pay full/high Y fares as before. So people ARE talking with their money.

This is exactly what he SHOULD be doing, and I, for one, would appreciate the gesture. My complaint is not the mess CO/OP has gotten themselves into, nor their need to get out of it, but the constant barrage of how "wonderful" they are, the Freddies (oh, so many Freddies!), and the lies, bait-and-switch, runaround, and back-room maneuvers they continue to pull, thinking no one will notice.. We have noticed, and they should acknowledge that we have. They should acknowledge that they are in a bit of a bind and they DO appreciate our patience and business.. But every time I call, I listen to 10 minutes of Freddies lovefest and then a less-than-informed agent tries to tell me that "This is the way it has ALWAYS been". We are an informed, intelligent society for the most part.. All I ask is to be treated that way!