why would DL's death be bad?

CO could get their hands on 8 shiny 777 and a bunch of 764/763, south american route authorities, and ATH, BCN.

Casino alse herald their prizes and fail to deliver 99.9999999% of the time. Lots of let down customers on LAS departing flights.

One shouldn't make expectations for ANYTHING THEY MIGHT GET FOR FREE.

I only expect to fly in biz when I pay for it.

While that statement is logical from a technical sense, it's against human nature. One's expectation is set based on marketing and past performance. Marketing issues aside, if a Plat is upgraded 95% of the time one year, then all of a sudden that drops to 60%, there is obviously going to be dissatisfaction. It's just human nature.

Yet another grocery store analogy, but if your local store had a special on a dozen eggs at buy one get one free, and they ran that special one week a month, you may not always expect to get it. But, if they ran that every week for a year, while you took advantage of it, then they suddenly pulled it, it's only human nature to be disappointed, as you're now getting less for the same money.

At some point continued performance sets the expectation, and any changes in that level of performance will impact customer expectations.

Good for you.

I do agree the Stupidfares are killing alot of the inventory we used to be able to have access to, and is reducing the R inventory... but it doesnt seem too bad on NWA... I got all my UG's last week... Friday flights out to the west coast out of DCA and got them at the 5 day window... Russ did mention that MSP-DCA, LGA, ORD, DTW have some of the highest Elite loads, so unless you are a Plat, don't count on it for those pairs.

The upgrade problems are starting to trickle down to CLE. I've flown CLE-LAX about once a month for four years as a Platinum. I always got an upgrade. Since the changes, I've flown twice on that route and didn't get an upgrade either time.

On the one hand, I understand that Continental needs the revenue and I should be happy they can fill the seats that way. On the other hand, part of my loyalty to Continental has been the knowledge that, for the most part, I would get upgraded and past indicators were that it would be no less than 3 - 5 days out. That end of the bargain is falling apart.

Continental offers Complimentary FirstClass upgrades for elites.... Continental themselves has said they expect Platinums to have a certain level of them... Whats wrong with looking forward to an upgrades once and while if you are flyong 75K plus a year... Sure some routes are harder then others, but Continental has even told us they have certain expectation for out upgrade %.

-Vincent

[in my 4pts sheraton hotel room on a bump -thanks continental]

I think the issue is what is best for CO in the long term.

You sell your FC seats at K class prices, and everyone else in coach is at T class (competing with LCC). FF's stop getting upgraded when they travel on a mix of fares, and last minute Y and H FF's can't get an upgrade because all the seats were sold at K prices.

The net is that the FF's will move to other carriers if they offer obtainable FF upgrades. Then CO becomes an effective LCC, with a few FC seats (12 on a 753), that sell at K prices. Somehow - I just do not see the benefit of simplified fares.

CO said they lost $200M due to the simplified fare structure. Was that due to the reduced FC fares, or due to the lost of FF's who have moved over the NW. CO does sell through cheaptickets.com and other discount outlets. One of the reasons CO's international flights are always crowded is because of the third party discount outlets.

Channa identified the solution: Jack up Z fares $100 more than a K fare or H fare, so in that 6-7 day window, Z does not show up as the lowest fare. Folks are requesting coach, but getting Z when they did not expect it. If Z is $100 more, than if you request Z you will get it, it you selected coach, then you will get a K or H fare - still coach fares that are not Y.

Note that not all LCC are coach only. AirTran and Spirit both have a FC cabin (call BC).

The 763 and even 764s show some serious age and despite that commanlity of the 767s I doubt they want DLs 763 -not to even mention they cockpits could be different as can often be the case among same line aircraft (e.g. AA/TWA 757s). The 777s at DL are all leased too I think, so wouldn't they just be returned to the leaser? Then released to who ever offers the most money?

The problem with buying authority through bankrupcy is that when you buy an authority you often will buy the historical resphonsibilities that go along with them, esp. in Europe. ATH I think would be one of them. e.g. AA bought assets of TWA, but did not use the TLV authority because if they activated it or landed a plane there, they would have to pay the former TWA people there nearly insane amounts in pension... Much could be the same case with Delta - as they got many routes across the pond from PanAm...


Continental knows about it and is still trying to figure out what to do, lets give them a chance to make this all right... In the mean time I don't mind the lower First Class fares... :D

-Vincent

[in my 4pts by sheraton hotel room - on a bump Thanks Continental]

It all depends on the time of the flight, day, and equip chosen out of DCA. Also Fare Class comes in to play on occassion, but I have EUA'd this year on every flight to IAH at the five day window and one time at the 3 day, mostly on V and L fares. I have never missed DCA-EWR at any elite level and am 8/8 EWR-DCA this year (a lot of L fares). Those usually clear day before departure through EUA. BWI is known to be a tad easier for upgrades, IAD runs mostly ERJ.

WASJETBOY

I too have taken this route (and SFO) frequently over the past several years and have struggled for upgrades as a Plat and Gold. Beyond the fact that first is being purchased more due to stupidfares, these flights are also full of biz travelers connecting to/from Asia and Australia. Combining these two facts makes a heck of a lot less seats available for upgrade, even with the 738. At least LAX has several daily frequencies to choose, unlike SFO.

Here we go again. The best thing that these airlines have done is to reduce the cost of F so that they sell seats instead of giving them away. Buy the transcon seat. $1100.00 RT, come on, pay the money and enjoy the ride. And this is coming from a Plat who has benefited from X and T class upgrades. Those days are over, but realistic F class is here. Take advantage of it...

Have you looked at AA? AA serves IAD-LAX n/s, as well as IAD-ORD (albeit with ERJs). From IAD, AA also flies to DFW, MIA, STL, and SJU.

Still comes back to the point, we are entitled to experiencing the benefits we are promised once and a while... a Plat with no UG at all this year is just appalling.. blaming it on the facts "it's a transcon and they are always full" is no excuse...

-Cinetn

You aren't entitled to anything. :mad:




Sometimes I wish they would completely do away with frequent flier programs so I wouldn't have to sit next to any of whiners on my flight. Good grief. :td: