One of the two main reasons I left DL was that I consistantly found crew in F while Elite were in the back. Once or twice no biggie, but on DL it was a constant issue so hence the move to CO. Before I switched to CO I called and asked their policy on crew in F. they said that it is not normal practice to put non rev crew in F over Elites.

Hence the switch

I would be upset if I was the poster as well. I too would believe the I was Entitled to the upgrade if the seat was open, if their weren't other Elites, guarenteed upgrades or Revenue pax ahead of me and I'm sure that there are a few more things I am forgetting, however crew isn't one of them.

One last thing, I just pray that I never sit near ETOPS on a flight, that would make for one long flight.

I'm in show business. We keep the best seats for our own use. Even the most expensive seats front and center. We release them when WE feel like it (usually once we realize that we don't need them). We typically will offer prime house seats to fans at the last minute, and "upgrade" them from less than prime locations to front and center - to serve our purposes.

Oh, we're talking about airlines...

HobokenFlyer - could it be that there were golds or plats ahead of you and your group that booked late or made last minute changes?

Don't you agree that a gold or plat (or gold or plat companion) should get the seats before you do?

"Steaming" over a non-upgrade?

Realize that there are people who fly 20 times as much as you, and they have status over you. Get some humility.

Your chances of an upgrade on EWR-FLL in the busy summer season as a silver... sorry.

As a plat, my upgrade ration is about 90%. That means about 1 in 10 segments doesn't upgrade. That means if a fellow plat books their ticket 1 minute before me, it's their upgrade, not mine.

Accept it.

cpd

I have no idea what the situation here was. None of us ever will. And, I'll admit that I've only flown CO a handful of times this year.

But let me tell you about something that happened to me last year in the hopes that everyone will settle down a little bit.

Last year I was on a flight, sitting in F, and a guy came through and he'd apparently been denied his upgrade. He went to the pilot in the seat next to me and started complaining that the pilot had taken "his" seat, and ranting on and on about airlines not treating their frequent fliers properly, and putting crew in FC. It turns out the pilot was traveling on a full-fare FC ticket, which he'd paid for 45 minutes before the flight left, which is why the seat had shown empty an hour ago.

I'm not saying this happened in this case, or even that it happens often. But, to presume that the system is screwing you is very uncool. If you're so suspicious of CO, maybe you should think about what you're doing there...

Not always a correct assumption, HobokenFlyer. In some instances, elite upgrade seats are released at various times throughout the five day period rather than all at once in advance. As additional seats are released and if there are CO Platinums and Golds still elgible for EUA upgrading, those seats would first go to Platinums, then Golds and then Silvers within appropriate time frames, of course.

It happened to me just recently. As a CO Platinum, my upgraded seat wasn't released until one day prior rather than the EUA five day in advance period. I hope this helps.

Happy Travels!

Generally speaking, I'm with JeffLewis2 on this one. Unless those two employees were traveling on paid FC tix (thanks for suggesting that possibility, 2 Many, it hadn't crossed my mind), they had no business being up there when there were elites sitting in coach.

Why do I say this? Because that's Continental's policy. To me, it's far less of "I didn't get the upgrade, Phildarnit" than "you broke the rules to my detriment, Phildarnit!" If CO had a policy that said "nonrev employees get FC ahead of everyone else," then they'd be UA. Um, I mean...then that'd be fine. Because it's the rules that we all agreed to. Yes, all of us agreed...we paid money for the tickets and earned elite. It's all part of the agreement.

I'd still be interested to see a direct quote from the onepass rules. Most of this thread has expressed what people think or believe or feel is their entitlement. How about some facts?

Ok people time out here....

First I need to say a few things...

The bottom line here is that I think the whole automatic upgrade thing stinks to high heaven. It was much better when you called and had some control of your destiny. Now it's automatic and a set of criteria was given on how FC seats were given out. I have no problem playing by the the rules, but my guess is there are hidden rules and they are not known by the general public.

I felt better when I called at 12:01AM on day of flight and was told, "no seats available" then I can go to the airport knowing that I can only standby and since I am never at the airport 2 hours before the chance of me standing by to FC is slim to none. I could accept that.

Now I am a slave to a computerized criteria which is suppossedly pretty clear cut; plats, then golds, then silvers and if you have a Y fare over an excursion fare you get a day head start. I can deal with that. But when you call at 11:30PM the night before and they say there are 4 seats open and in the old days 31 mintues later I can call and get that upgrade, now I got to wait for the "e-mail"; said e-mail doesn't come, you call, 4 seats are still available, but we can't upgrade over the phone, etc..

Can you see the frustration with the new system? Can the people who thought I was being a spoiled silver understand the frustration? Hey FC is full no seats, no problem, I can handle that. This situation sounded like to me that CO employees were giving their friends favors. Hell, if they told me only ONE seat was available the night before and I didn't get it; I would even accept that!

In my original post, I may have used some words that may have made me sounded like a spoiled little silver who demanded his entitled upgrade and yes I know I did use the word entitled; however if you understand the frustration with the new system, you might be slightly more sympathetic. I wrote that post after talking to someone at 800-WeCare2 who told me some cockamamie story that maybe I didn't get the upgrade because they flush out the list 3 days before the flight and you have to CALL AGAIN to put yourself BACK ON the autoupgrade list. Does this make any sense?

I don't think I was being unreasonable.


Next...

ETOPS01 since you had SO MUCH fun classifying me as, "Let me venture a guess: T or Q fare, right? Hmmm... July... Florida... Booked three months out... Steaming mad over not being upgraded... Airline-crew conspiracy theories... wouldn't you feel more at home on Southwest, seated across from the guy in the flip-flop sandals with the boombox under the seat and cooler in the overhead bin, commiserating about how the last time he flew two August's ago the flight was delayed for a whole half an hour because there were supposedly thunderstorms in Dallas - but how could that be when there wasn't a cloud in the sky in Baltimore?!"

Excuse me ETOPS01, but for my sake I am going to call you Mr. Richard Head and start expounding what I think about you....

I bet you are either some big shot, snob rich guy OR you work for some multinational big corporation, maybe a big shot, maybe some insignificant middle manager; but since you work for a deep pocketed corporation you can leisurely take Y fares and book with three days notice, money is no object, since it is not yours or you have so much of it, that it warps your sense of value.

Now, I could be very wrong about you, just like you were wrong about me....

I am a business traveler, I have made 12 round trips this year and only 2 of them were personal. Yes, I booked 3 months in advance and yes I bought a Q fare and yes I flew to FLL instead of MIA cause it was $50 a ticket less. I used to work for a FORTUNE 10 corporation so I understand, "Let them book Y fare" mentality; I lived it.

Now, I work for my family's business, big enough that we do 20 trade shows and conferences a year; but not anywhere near Fortune 500 territory but not a mom and pop candy store either. I was travelling to South Florida to go to a trade show in Miami Beach and I am sorry I don't see spending $800 on a Y fare when I can book early and get a Q fare for $199. That $600 difference is 3 nights hotel and meals. When you own the business THIS ADDS UP. Yes, I am a lowly silver, but I have already accrued 33K miles and on track for 51K by November.

Now I know that 33K-50K is a pittance to some people on this board who travel constantly, but I am still a seasoned traveler and not the honkey-tonk that ETOPS01
thinks I am. I didn't appreciate your comments or your snobbery ETOPS01, it was uncalled for and unfair. You and Princess Rachel can go book your Y fares meet in FC, join the mile high club and produce obnoxious, stuck up and rude children just like the parents...

I apologize to the other members of this board for the previous rant but I think his comments were unwarranted and I hope to avoid this kind of stuff in the future. And thanks to JeffLewis for his defense of my original post; he got the real meaning of my post; the failure of the automatic upgrade system and thanks to MRLIMO for an answer to my question!!!

So now that we have each traded barbs, let's all have a drink in the PC and RELAX!!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

- HobokenFlyer

P.S. I am not even going to begin the discussion of my flight back from FLL where I was upgraded from 9C to 2F two days before, then on day of flight CO changes aircraft and I get downgraded to 8A. I didn't make a stink cause my girlfriend flew down a couple of days after me and we were flying back together and I didn't WANT to upgrade cause I wanted to sit with her; but doesn't it seem there is something fishy here?

Having to stay up until midnight the night before the flight to make a phone call doesn't sound all that great to me. Giving out the upgrades based on elite status or fare paid makes sense, prioritizing people who don't mind staying up late before a trip doesn't.

And, assuming the computer is programmed correctly, one would think that the upgrading being done by a computer reduces the possibility of staff doing their friends a favour (which seems to be one of your concerns).

I'm not saying the system necessarily works at present, but I think in principle having it automated is the way to go.

Now, now, HobokenFlyer, this whole issue isn't about ME, it's about you and how you get "steaming mad" over not being upgraded when you buy an APEX ticket.

Who, more than I (and I'll arm-wrestle anyone over this), wouldn't just love to be upgraded on a ticket that's been bought for much, much less than the cost of a first class ticket?

The only difference between you and I, which has nothing to do with our lines of work, is that while I recognize the upgrades that are afforded by the OnePass program are a perq, you seem to believe that you are entitled to them and are not humble at all about conveying that to the world.

As I'll say again as I've been saying all along, if you want to be assured of flying in first class, BUY A FIRST-CLASS TICKET. If your budget doesn't or won't allow for it, then don't take it out on the airline, and certainly don't take it out on folks who remind you of this. You can get your panties out of a bunch, now.

Seems as of late, people on FlyerTalk really are posing loaded issues. If they don't get responses that they want to hear, they just flame. There's no discussion if there's only one point of view.

Isn't the "discussion" actually about what exactly the "rule"/policy is, and whether it was/is being applied properly and transparently in this case? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

When is that drink in the PC scheduled for, btw! I just might try to join you if you don't mind! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Hoboken Flyer: Still, the question remains, were the four seats that were available "A" or "F" fare basis? "F" are the ones that are avilable for upgrades.

New system, old system, doesn't matter. Platinum, gold, silver, doesn't matter. If they were "A" seats, they wouldn't have been released to EUA unless changed to "F" at some point.

Often, "A" seats are available 2 hours before the flight. At that point they become available for gate upgrades, at which point tehy're doled out based on status, so if there are platinums or golds waiting for standby upgrades, you're out of luck as a silver.

On the issue of the crew getting priority for upgrades, that's a different matter entirely. I don't know if I'd write a letter or not on that, but I might. I came over from UA, where first class is known to many here as "employee class." It was often difficult to get upgraded as a Premier Executive, and there were often many crew in FC. I've rarely seen it on CO, and never sat in coach on CO while crew was in FC on domestic flights. (Their policies on international flights are different, I think.) That's in about 500,000 miles of flying over the last 5 years. Yes, I would be a little ticked, but probably not "steaming."

ETOPS01, you must have taken a speed reading class in your life and failed, did you actually READ my reply?!?!?!

I know it's a perk and I know that being silver and traveling mostly on excursion, puts me at the bottom; that's cool. I know it's a perk not an entitlement. I thought I adequately explained myself that the anger was over more that the quantity of seats and that I got the run around and not straight answers from CO. I can ACCEPT that being silver and traveling on excursion usually guarantees me jack; but when you get vague, amorphous answers from their premier help line instead of solid logical reason; that gets me steamed; not the fact I didn't get the upgrade; the WHOLE POINT of my thread was to find out what is the policy on crew, so I KNOW for next time.

And for your info, ETOPS01, YOU FLAMED ME to start. You have the right to your opinion and the right to express it and I can accept and respect that; what I don't respect is the WAY you presented your opinion; it was rude and obnoxious; you could have made your point and still have been polite; instead you chose to belittle me with your snobbery, [Country Club snob accent] "The poor chap can't afford a first class ticket; I would give him my own FC seat as charity but the bubbly is just so dry and refreshing; isn't that right lovey? I am so glad we parked the beemer in the valet lot instead of in the economy lot with all the commoners. There are just amusing to watch aren't they darling? Aren't you so glad we don't have to travel in steerage?"

And viking, I understand why CO stopped doing the phone calls because every night they probably had to have on duty costly phone reps to handle all the calls. It was a business decision and that makes sense; I just have lost some confidence in the automatic system lately based upon recent experiences.

Thanks doc and dgolds for clarifying and adding to the discussion and I am up for that drink anytime doc! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

- HobokenFlyer

No, if there are seats available when checking in at the gate or TC, it is first-come first-serve. Level of status doesn't matter as long as you're Elite on CO/HP/NW.

The level of status only starts to affect upgrades at the gate when there's a waitlist involved.

Exactly. This is how the folks with prestige pack segment upgrades get upgraded.

>>The level of status only starts to affect upgrades at the gate when there's a waitlist involved.

Good point, and news to me. When is there a waitlist, and when do they just dole out the FC seats first come first serve?