I want to tell NJDavid where........
Apr 26, 2001, 6:23 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Spring Lake,NJ
Posts: 1,219
I want to tell NJDavid where........
to find a great Martini in Manhattan!
[This message has been edited by IM4Travel (edited 04-27-2001).]
[This message has been edited by IM4Travel (edited 04-27-2001).]
Apr 26, 2001, 6:43 pm
#2
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Northeast MA, USA.
Programs: HHonors Diamond, DL Silver, TSA Harassee
Posts: 3,657
You are truly a class act.
[This message has been edited by CameraGuy (edited 05-07-2001).]
[This message has been edited by CameraGuy (edited 05-07-2001).]
Apr 26, 2001, 7:05 pm
#3
Join Date: Aug 2000
Programs: I am an AS employee, but my comments do not represent the company in any official capacity.
Posts: 4,343
in response to the original edit by Im4Travel I am deleting my request. 
[This message has been edited by eastwest (edited 04-27-2001).]
[This message has been edited by eastwest (edited 04-27-2001).]
Apr 26, 2001, 8:34 pm
#4
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: TX
Posts: 712
Let's not be indiscreet, here.
The criticism on NJDavid's site are largely very fair and real problems. It is not incongruent that CO wins the freedie and NJDavid's/our complaints have no validity. They do, but apparently not enough to "deny."
For those who travel internationally, CO is certainly far from the best program in many respects. Again, domestically, they're very good.
JL2
The criticism on NJDavid's site are largely very fair and real problems. It is not incongruent that CO wins the freedie and NJDavid's/our complaints have no validity. They do, but apparently not enough to "deny."
For those who travel internationally, CO is certainly far from the best program in many respects. Again, domestically, they're very good.
JL2
Apr 26, 2001, 9:04 pm
#5
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
Differing opinions of CO notwithstanding, I concur that a post like this can only inflame and cannot possibly further our common goal of gettin' more miles, enjoying our time in the sky, getting the most for our money, etc.
Why get personal if it's not necessary? Just my humble opinion.
[This message has been edited by JonNYC (edited 04-26-2001).]
Why get personal if it's not necessary? Just my humble opinion.
[This message has been edited by JonNYC (edited 04-26-2001).]
Apr 26, 2001, 9:04 pm
#6
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
FWIW, and I do travel quite a bit internationally, for the time being at least, other carriers have FAR worse problems and a bit more serious FF program "negatives", IMHO, than CO!
Apr 26, 2001, 9:38 pm
#7
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Northeast MA, USA.
Programs: HHonors Diamond, DL Silver, TSA Harassee
Posts: 3,657
doc,
So that we can have an idea of your personal experience, please answer this question:
When was the last time you flew CO?
So that we can have an idea of your personal experience, please answer this question:
When was the last time you flew CO?
Apr 26, 2001, 9:38 pm
#8
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Smoke filled room, TPA and FLL/MIA :UAL 1K and 2MM,AA EX PLAT and 2MM,Lifetime Plat Starwood
Posts: 4,318
Although CameraGuy is correct about not starting this thread... the good news is a flame war is unlikely to erupt. Why? NjDavid has become a founder of another exclusive board that Flyertalkers aren't welcome without an invitation. So he's not likely going to see this thread, out amoung the unwashed here on FT. Oh well... that Deny, Deny, Deny thing had a beat and you could dance to it. Of course I voted for CO myself...
Apr 26, 2001, 11:06 pm
#9
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: This year we're going to the BAFTAs!
Posts: 5,518
Originally posted by CameraGuy:
You are truly a class act.
You are truly a class act.
Apr 26, 2001, 11:31 pm
#10
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Fullerton, CA
Posts: 319
Doc writes - "other carriers have FAR worse problems and a bit more serious FF program "negatives", IMHO, than CO."
Those other carriers, American in particular, do not have the problems you attribute to them. From my standpoint, AA just doesn't do well in the balloting, because most of AA's elite travelers just don't care about having AA's program being declared the best. It is the best for them, and that is enough.
Occasionally, it is true that we wonder what all of the hype is about. But, frankly, I haven't read one thing about OnePass on this board that would make me leave AAdvantage for OnePass. For instance, just this past week I read that Continental cannot directly and at a moment's notice arrange for award travel on Qantas. Quess what? AA can. A month ago, I also read that Continenal Platinum members do not have a dedicated reservation desk to handle their inquiries. If you could just avail yourself of the AA EP desk, you would think you had the direct number to God.
I guess that is what discredits many of these awards in my eyes. They just don't recognize some of the finer differences between the programs. And, in Continental's case, why improve if you are constantly being rewarded, because no one knows better?
You've got to wonder, however, why there are still more members in the Amerian AAdvantage program than in the Continental OnePass program, and why there is still a large group of frequent flyers who, despite knowing that it would take fewer miles to become top-tier elite on Continental, continue to fill the ranks of AA's EP level. Clearly, some of us know better.
On average, all 60,000 of us EP's think that for 25,000 more miles, we get many more benefits, from rather liberal international upgrade policies to oneworld Awards that permit us to traverse the world on some of the world's finest carriers. As a group, however, I must admit that we are a less motivated bunch than you Continental Elites. As I said, we could care less about the Freddies. Sometimes, even a prejudicial change in the AAdvantage Program isn't enough to stir us up. Of course, the dynamics between the management of AAdvantage and us is such that if I were to call the EP desk to complain about a change in the program it would be taken seriously by the EP agents who would then take up the issue with management. At American, I have observed how just a few calls to the EP desk are enough to get American to reverse its decision on some things. That is what happened with some of the conditions placed on our systemwide upgrades this year.
By contrast, I have observed how Continental treated you during the EUG rollout, and how lost some of you felt because you did not even have an advocate inside the company like the AA EP desk. So, one has to wonder what motivation Continental has now to come up with something like the EP desk or any of the other benefits that make AA's AAdvantage program the choice of a very elite frequent flyer, if, despite all of Continental's troubles last year, it keeps winning awards for its customer service and its elite program. I quess one gets what they ask for.
Those other carriers, American in particular, do not have the problems you attribute to them. From my standpoint, AA just doesn't do well in the balloting, because most of AA's elite travelers just don't care about having AA's program being declared the best. It is the best for them, and that is enough.
Occasionally, it is true that we wonder what all of the hype is about. But, frankly, I haven't read one thing about OnePass on this board that would make me leave AAdvantage for OnePass. For instance, just this past week I read that Continental cannot directly and at a moment's notice arrange for award travel on Qantas. Quess what? AA can. A month ago, I also read that Continenal Platinum members do not have a dedicated reservation desk to handle their inquiries. If you could just avail yourself of the AA EP desk, you would think you had the direct number to God.
I guess that is what discredits many of these awards in my eyes. They just don't recognize some of the finer differences between the programs. And, in Continental's case, why improve if you are constantly being rewarded, because no one knows better?
You've got to wonder, however, why there are still more members in the Amerian AAdvantage program than in the Continental OnePass program, and why there is still a large group of frequent flyers who, despite knowing that it would take fewer miles to become top-tier elite on Continental, continue to fill the ranks of AA's EP level. Clearly, some of us know better.
On average, all 60,000 of us EP's think that for 25,000 more miles, we get many more benefits, from rather liberal international upgrade policies to oneworld Awards that permit us to traverse the world on some of the world's finest carriers. As a group, however, I must admit that we are a less motivated bunch than you Continental Elites. As I said, we could care less about the Freddies. Sometimes, even a prejudicial change in the AAdvantage Program isn't enough to stir us up. Of course, the dynamics between the management of AAdvantage and us is such that if I were to call the EP desk to complain about a change in the program it would be taken seriously by the EP agents who would then take up the issue with management. At American, I have observed how just a few calls to the EP desk are enough to get American to reverse its decision on some things. That is what happened with some of the conditions placed on our systemwide upgrades this year.
By contrast, I have observed how Continental treated you during the EUG rollout, and how lost some of you felt because you did not even have an advocate inside the company like the AA EP desk. So, one has to wonder what motivation Continental has now to come up with something like the EP desk or any of the other benefits that make AA's AAdvantage program the choice of a very elite frequent flyer, if, despite all of Continental's troubles last year, it keeps winning awards for its customer service and its elite program. I quess one gets what they ask for.
Apr 26, 2001, 11:58 pm
#11
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: CT (NYC Suburbs), Gulf Stream, FL
Programs: United Premier 1K, American AAdvantage Gold
Posts: 3,089
IM4Travel...now let me understand this one.... Continental reduces its elite benefits, and still wins a bunch of awards.....and you think that's good. Many thanks for your insights. For a minute, I was thinking that might give other carriers ideas. I sure feel better now.
Apr 27, 2001, 12:13 am
#12
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Programs: UA 1K, AA Lifetime Platinum, DL Platinum, Honors Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz Platinum
Posts: 7,969
To respond a bit to Scion's comments on AA vs CO elite levels, let me offer a couple of counter-arguments in CO's favor. Let me start by saying that I'm a CO Gold Elite (the middle tier) and have never been the top tier on CO, nor any elite tier on AA. Also, I have a good friend that recently made AA EXP.
I've never had a problem getting int'l awards on CO, either completely paid for by miles (in coach or BusinessFirst) or upgrades. This has something to do with the fact that I don't fly the European routes, where most of the gripes (and the 30-day rule) seem to come from.
But more importantly, even as a mid-tier elite, I end up getting upgraded to First Class on domestic flights for free, on any fare basis, about 90% of the time (both before and after the EUA). My AA friend recently was telling me how, as an EXP, they now get free upgrades, and they were shocked that I have been getting them most of the time for 5+ years on CO, even though I've been at the middle or lowest elite tier. This same friend also told me about how it was difficult to redeem the coveted VIPOW vouchers.
I fully understand how some points of AA's program are better than CO's (in particular, the dedicated phone agents for EXPs). But this does not mean that CO's program overall is not better for many of us. As for AAdvantage having more members than OnePass, of course this has something to do with AA being a larger airline than CO. So, I don't think that CO consistently scoring better in the Freddies just means that AA's customers are more happy with a better program and don't care to vote. Perhaps, on a proportional basis, CO's customers really are happier. Just a thought.
I've never had a problem getting int'l awards on CO, either completely paid for by miles (in coach or BusinessFirst) or upgrades. This has something to do with the fact that I don't fly the European routes, where most of the gripes (and the 30-day rule) seem to come from.
But more importantly, even as a mid-tier elite, I end up getting upgraded to First Class on domestic flights for free, on any fare basis, about 90% of the time (both before and after the EUA). My AA friend recently was telling me how, as an EXP, they now get free upgrades, and they were shocked that I have been getting them most of the time for 5+ years on CO, even though I've been at the middle or lowest elite tier. This same friend also told me about how it was difficult to redeem the coveted VIPOW vouchers.
I fully understand how some points of AA's program are better than CO's (in particular, the dedicated phone agents for EXPs). But this does not mean that CO's program overall is not better for many of us. As for AAdvantage having more members than OnePass, of course this has something to do with AA being a larger airline than CO. So, I don't think that CO consistently scoring better in the Freddies just means that AA's customers are more happy with a better program and don't care to vote. Perhaps, on a proportional basis, CO's customers really are happier. Just a thought.
Apr 27, 2001, 12:18 am
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Spring Lake,NJ
Posts: 1,219
hmmm...I guess Scion forgot that our PLATS ride up front domestically (which is where most members fly) every time without worrying about any "stickers"...or that we get 125% bonus on every flight....or the fact that our metal is the youngest in the industry (and getting younger) ..or the fact that our bonuses have been so plentiful for the past 6 months that some members report earning 200K just on one trip EWR-HKG....or the fact that the booze is free in the PC....or the fact that we just took Midway from AA... or the fact that we don't even remotely have any labor problems...people actually LIKE to work for our airline....hmmm I guess he "forgot" these things...please think about it next time you come onto our board and try something like this again. No..we aren't perfect..but then again..who is? And of course you have more members...you should...AA is a much bigger airline.
Apr 27, 2001, 2:16 am
#14
Join Date: Aug 2000
Programs: I am an AS employee, but my comments do not represent the company in any official capacity.
Posts: 4,343
Is the general consensus
shaken
or
stirred?
[This message has been edited by eastwest (edited 04-27-2001).]
shaken
or
stirred?
[This message has been edited by eastwest (edited 04-27-2001).]
Apr 27, 2001, 4:50 am
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: IAD
Programs: AA Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 27,067
So where is the best place to find a martini in Manhattan?