As others have said on this thread, you really have to keep up with what is going on. First two segments of my upcoming trip were auto upgraded no problem. Return segments were not, although ITN showed F3 for the flight pair. I called the Platinum line and asked. A very nice agent said, you were upgraded on one of the segments but not the other. "How strange", she added. I said I guess the system still had some kinks. She replyed, " and we will get rid of those kinks right now", and completed the upgrade. She was very nice to deal with and told me the best way to deal with the new system at this point is to keep on top of the game at my end and if there is a problem to just call. Maybe machines can count votes better than people, but it is sure nice to have a nice person to talk to, when the auto-upgrade machine gets out of line.

Before EUA: 0 for 0
After EUA: 2 for 4

Made Silver in June. Haven't flown them since until last week.

11/17 11:15 am
ORD-IAH MD80 : denied
IAH-SFO 737 : denied

11/21 12 pm
SFO-IAH 757 : Upgraded at gate with 2 other passengers, I believe. Placed on a wailist once I checked in around 10:20 am

IAH-ORD 737 : Upgraded on the plane before takeoff by gate agent. I guess someone didn't show or something.

Although I obviously don't mind being upgraded, but is there anyway to confirm this earlier (i.e. midnight day of flight)? I called CO the night before both my flights and said F was full, but yet I was upgraded. What gives? I called normal reservations instead of the Silver hotline. What should I have done differently?

I was looking forward to trying the tri-colored pasta, but surprisingly there wasn't any left when the FA came by (!) Had some funky turkey sandwich and split pea soup.

The pasta seems to be to and from any two southern cities.

[This message has been edited by cigarman (edited 11-22-2000).]

EUA scorecard:

CO gold for past 2 years...

Until last week, upgraded on EVERY segment for the past 2 years - except one (and it was a short hop - so no big deal). I could be considered an aggressive gold - I want my F seat, so I always remember to call, etc...

Since EUA, I am 1 for 3 (33%) - however, on 2 flights, I was given the F seat but was bumped at the gate due to an equipment downgrade from a 24 seat 757 to the biz-1st 16 seat config... (to the people in F, that wasn't a downgrade!) - however, i didn't get the EUA until morning of the flights in both circumstances - so is my scorecard 100%? I didn't fly in 1st, so I think it's 33%. How odd is that that there's an eqip change on 2 flights in a row (EWR-PBI-EWR).

Now, my flight tomorrow morn (thanksgiving day) will be a test -- gotta say that the system is quirky -- for a flight on 11/23, I checked ITN on 11/20 at 11pm EST - ITN reported A8 F8 - good, lots of seats - and this is within the platinum upgrade window (that is, the plats should have all upgraded by this time). Good - so I watched the computer do its thing on Monday night - right after midnight CST, the flight went to A8 F4 - hmm - what's this... computer is restricting some seats...

OK - A8 F4 is good and I should get a seat when the computer runs overnight - when I woke up at 7am, checked email - no upgrade notice. Checked ITN - A4 F0. Hmmm... where's my upgrade? :-( Well, obviously there must be at least 4 golds on this flight that ticketed before me...

We'll see if I get the upgrade tonight....

Finally, I called CO elite line for my 2 NW codeshare flights on Friday - no prob. A9 F9 all the way...

So including the 2 equip changes, for 6 segments, I'm 4 for 7 (possibly 5 for 7 if my thursday morn flight clears). Not exactly 100% as i've grown accustomed to (and the ONLY reason I am loyal to CO).

I could care less about any benefit of onepass EXCEPT the upgrades. In fact, I am trying to use some of my 500,000 miles and get my parents a trip to the carribean in F next summer - however inventory sucks. When I used to be premex on UA, reward seats were much more abundant.... maybe I'm just picking the wrong days and the wrong destinations... but geez...

Ok, off for the weekeend. Safe travels to all.

cpd

My EUA tally:

0 for 0, 50,000 miles in the hole for confirmed upgrades so I don't have to take a chance with an unfairly imposed, stupidly thought out and plain dumb EUA system. 50,000 miles of retribution that I am putting in my "bank" so that I will remember to get it out of Continental's hide some day.

My only run-in this year will be the 2nd week of December, when I'm scheduled to fly coach next to my wife. She's on a reward, I'm at the end of a business trip where I expressly do not want an upgrade. As I've received no official notice that I have to do anything different other than reserve a seat next to my wife, that is all I have done. I will have a tape recorder with me to record whatever the gate agent says if they attempt to give me a seat I did not ask for instead of the one that I as an elite have already confirmed.

[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 11-22-2000).]

NJDavid:


Hey, I certainly hear your gripe, although I have a different perspective, as you know. Seriously, by all means you have the right to criticize the new system and chose other means to upgrade. I wish it were working out otherwise for you. You have stated elsewhere why you will be using miles.

An unreleated question, for another time, would be how about monitoring the seats with ITN and then using a mileage upgrade if it doesn't look hopeful. I did this with the old system, since EWR was never 100 percent for me. Maybe that's what you're doing?

However, I'll be a bit priggish here and remind everyone, including myself, that this thread is for score reports. 0 for 0. No attempts, no score. No reports.

EUA scores, anyone?

JL2

No problem, We agree on 0 for 0. But just for the record (not filling this with unnecessary repeated remarks) I fly to a whole lot of business conferences out of EWR. LAX, LAS, SFO, etc. These are all VERY popular routes. Two months out, ITN often shows that the only F inventory still available is on connecting flights if at all. By taking away my ability to request an upgrade at the exact point when yield management releases the seat, CO has effectively removed my ability to upgrade.

EUA may be a luxury for those of you who fly out of non-hub airports, and especially for the frequent traveller to Knoxville or Phoenix. But for those of us flying transcon from a CO hub, it is a painful thorn representing a clear loss of promised benefits.

Platinum member.12/12 since new EAU system began.

EUA is not a benefit. It is a promition to reward the best customers. It is a "free" good provided by CO. While it is probably considered a "right" by those silver and gold who tried hard to reach the elite level and expect it, please keep in mind that no other airlines offer upgrades for the same flying efforts without costs. So when you compare apple with apple, some complaints we see here may become moot. I have already flown 2 Platimum worth (150,000 miles) this year. And I appreciate the fact that CO is finally making an effort to ensure their best customers will have first priority to get a better seat. (I often got caught while traveling on CO and on partner airlines coming back to US and LOST the chance to call in in advance for an upgrade.) That's why they have my loyalty and my travel dollars. To stay consistent with the topic. 1 for 1 on domestic route so far. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by TheAuditor (edited 11-22-2000).]

5 for 5 here, as a Plat flying out of IAH.

If we're talking about what is "fair," there are reasonable arguments on both sides. Some Plats who find it inconvenient to call in for upgrades feel that, with EUA, CO is merely rewarding their best customers. Point well taken!

OTOH, Silvers and Golds, certainly not shabby customers when compared to the average flyer, and also responsible for a large part of CO's total revenue, feel that they've been cut out of the upgrade pie, and that their higher than average volume of business is no longer appreciated by CO. Again, another point well taken!

Since both "fairness" arguments have merit, let's look at the business equation. Since upgrades are used by the airlines to instill and maintain loyalty among their best customers, it makes sense to analyze whether EUA gains more business for CO than it loses. I believe that in a year or so, if EUA isn't eliminated, or at least given a major overhaul, it will result in a net loss of business for CO.

First of all, what we are talking about is dividing up a very limited pie. There are only so many premium seats, and they can't be readily expanded without seriously harming the bottom line. Eastern tried that, and we all know what happened to them!

So, any upgrade seats we give to someone, necessarily have to be taken away from someone else. What EUA has done is take some of the BC/FC seats away from highly motivated Silvers and Golds, who wanted the upgrades badly enough to make repeated calls for them, and give them to Plats who either couldn't or wouldn't call in for them previously.

Now let's look at the equation. Jeff, as a Plat who's happy with EUA, will you be giving CO more business next year because of what is for you an "improvement" in perks? Conversely, if CO had maintained the old "call-in" system of upgrading, would you be giving less business to CO next year. I would hazard to guess that your answer would be a resounding "no" in both cases!

The fact is that the vast majority of Plats don't feel that strongly about what is for them a marginal improvement in perks to substantially alter their pattern of business with CO. Furthermore, many of these Plats are "captive flyers"...those who fly out of a CO hub, and would prolly fly CO under any circumstances.

OTOH, let's look at the equation from the Silver/Gold's perspective. First of all, most of CO's lower/middle tier elite flyers fly out of airports other than IAH, EWR, or CLE. These flyers each give 25-74K miles of business to CO, not because they have no choice, but because they clearly prefer CO. And they clearly prefer CO because of the free upgrades, not because of the priority luggage tags or early boarding. Furthermore, the Silver/Golds who made frequent call-ins for upgrades, and have been hurt the most by EUA, were especially highly motivated for the upgrades.

CO may be the nation's #5 airline, but it isn't #1 or #2! For flyers based out of cities other than CO's three hubs, UA and AA have more flights to more places. And their flights are frequently more direct, and occasionally cheaper.

True, CO is superior to either airline in a number of ways...quality of service, attitude of employees, age of aircraft, on-time record, etc. But, for most frequent flyers, the most important motivation they have to fly CO is the free upgrades. Take them away, and you've taken away their main reason for living with a smaller choice of flights, and flights that require a connection in IAH vs. a non-stop.

But, a free upgrade isn't any good if you can't get it. And CO has one of the stingiest coach/economy seat pitch intervals (31") in the industry. If one has to fly Cattle Class, better to have a larger choice of flights, more direct flights, and an extra couple of inches of pitch. Thus, with no significant increase in Platinum business, yet a large drop-off in lower/middle tier elite business, I believe EUA will, over time, hurt CO's bottom line.

At this point, I believe most lower/middle tier CO elites are taking a wait and see attitude. After all, we do prefer CO to most other airlines for all of the above reasons. And we would prefer to stick with CO! So, we'll continue to hope that CO will take notice of this major dissatisfaction, and take some corrective action.

But, I do believe that if by this time next year, lower/middle tier elites find that they are getting no or few upgrades, I think you'll find a large number of them drifting away from CO.

------------------
"An upgrade, an upgrade! My kingdom for an upgrade!"

SemiElite:

Score report? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

A nice analysis--something few and far between these days. We'll have to see. Not sure I quite agree with the premise about Plats vs. G/Ss being located at Hubs vs. non, thus the Plats having to fly CO, so more inelasticity with Plat. Think it's more evenly distributed, but not entirely. Do think that Plats consider the inconvenience a bit more. Would weigh the trade off as better for Plats, less for silvers, with Golds roughly the same (of course, there is disagreement here). If Plats are more elastic in demand for CO (as i think) then there may have been some inconvenience of sitting in the back despite calling/calling when the silver snagged the upgrade at first dibs. As I've said key is not the calling as much, but the getting passed over with a late release.

But, even if you're right and silvers are impacted more...how much impact is required to switch them to a carrier where upgrades are not complimentary--maybe NW but not sure if the estimated reduction would put below an AA/UA type program; this may be key in your analysis. Yes, 31 inch seat pitch makes one think much about upgrades.

Report (so I can post here) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
16/16 for EUA.

Jeff, we may be disagree on EUA, but I sure like your analysis. It's intelligent, and well thought out. But I believe, I've addressed your very legitimate concerns.

As far as the Plats being concentrated at hubs, I cannot offer statistal proof, although I'm sure a dedicated researcher could find it.

My hypothesis is based on logic. If you fly out of IAH, you are more than somewhat limited to CO. CO gives you the flights, DL doesn't...grin. So, if you're a road warrior, you fly with the airline that offers the flights...in this case, CO. And, if you're a serious road warrior, travelling over 100K a year, you're going to get pretty much the same benefits flying any carrier...UA, AA, CO, DL, NW, etc. ANY of those airlines will treat you like a king! So, what airline you fly is not determined by the program, but by what airline produces the most flights out of your airport.

As far as the inconvenience, I think that is a high priority for all elites, less so for occasional flyers.

But, I think Plats are far more inelastic! Silvers/Golds are far more elastic...that is my basic premise! EUA is no biggie for most Plats...but the loss of upgrades for many of those 75K Silvers and 25K Golds are a major biggie for them...and they are elastic...and they will take a hike!!!

Now, as to your question as to how much impact is required to switch them? Dunno...it's an individual matter. Varies with each person. But, with me, I guess it would prolly be an upgrade level less than 50-75%.

I will be flying to Sydney, Australia quite often in the next few years (inlaws there), and I can't fly there direct on CO...gotta fly via Cairns, but I can fly direct via UA...so I have a fairly low threshold. But I guess a married couple who flies to SYD twice a year, in addition to vacation flights, would be pretty attractive to most airlines. So, in my case, it wouldn't take much to switch me to UA...pricier domestic upgrades, but more liberal intl. upgrades...and direct flights to Sydney.

But remember, UA, like most airlines, will always be more than happy to comp a CO Gold to UA PremEx!



------------------
"An upgrade, an upgrade! My kingdom for an upgrade!"

Very good points Semielite I agree 100%!

And then there are 100% free unlimited non-upgrades for Silvers (and Golds maybe) because Plats can go from 95 to 99%
Golds maybe from 80% to 70% and Silvers from

25% to 0% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------
Viele Grüße

Oliver

Boomer: Several CO agents have remarked that they're selling (for cash) a lot more BF/FC tickets lately. If so, that would seriously affect how many BF/FC seats will be held back by yield management.

Got no idea why, maybe the UA fiasco from last summer is driving road warriors to CO???

Germanflyer: Actually, I don't think Silvers will go "25% to 0%."

Silvers are generally very aware that they're at the bottom of the Elite pecking order. So those who seriously want the upgrade have known for years that strategy is necessary in order to get it. That means avoiding hub to hub travel, high demand time travel, aircraft with small FC cabins (737s), and agressive phone-in techniques. Using the above techniques, many Silvers have approached 95% to 100% in upgrades.

What EUA has done is to remove a Silver's ability to play strategy in order to overcome his/her low status on the Elite pecking order. I would think that an agressive Silver's upgrade batting average would be reduced from 95% to 20%...a clearly unacceptable percentage, and one that would prompt most Silvers to look for another airline...particularly one that offered more flights, more destinations, more non-stop flights, and more seat pitch in Cattle Class...and even more upgrades, even if they had to buy "coupons" or "stickers."



------------------
"An upgrade, an upgrade! My kingdom for an upgrade!"

A colleague of mine (silver) just remarked to me that he is 1 for 6 since the EUA...Thank god I'll qualify for PLAT next week.

Well, so far as a Silver, I went 6 for 6 pre-EUA, and now 0 for 2 post-EUA. And based upon everything I've been reading here, this is typical for Silvers since EUA.

My guess it that if CO doesn't do something about this situation quickly, it will soon have a reputation as an airline that rewards Plats liberally, but treats Silvers and Golds like Aunt Minnie who flies twice a year...at Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Maybe CO will get the message when they lose the Freddie next year...along with approx. 100,000 former Silvers and Golds!

------------------
"An upgrade, an upgrade! My kingdom for an upgrade!"

aunt_minnie_at_christmas@denycontinentalthefreddie .com

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

As a Continental Platinum I am 8 for 8 on EUA's. I have even managed to get a travel companion upgraded on 4 segments. My luck cannot hold on much longer. I should make Platinum again for the coming year, so that will help I hope.

I am a Silver Elite who is less than thrilled with this whole new automation. I do a lot of domestic travel and will make Gold this month, but as a Silver the last few months have been rough. I wouldn't mind if I lost my seat to someone with a higher elite class, but more often than not I'm not even in the computer. This has happened to me several times over the last month (and by several I mean five or six). I call at midnight to make sure I'm in the computer. They tell me I'm not. They enter my onepass number and tell my the upgrade will happen automatically. I go to the airport, check-in and not onl;y did I not get the upgrade, but they have no record of my onepass number. I mean this has been a trend. One time I got there and was upgraded at the counter, which was nice, but it was suppossed to be automatic, right?

I just don't trust this system AND my upgrade averag has gone WAY down. It really doesn't pay for me to go out of my way and fly extra legs if I can't upgrade. I might have to go back to flying a straight line! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

LouCap,

Welcome to flyer talk. Hope you enjoy your time here. You will learn a great deal from the folks who frequent these threads.
Even though my success rate for upgrades under the new system have been good, you are correct that there seem to be some flaws in the system. A friend of mine who works for Continental keeps telling me to be patient and give them time to "get it right". I will be anxious to see what "time" will do. I guess for now, we just have to hang in there. Again, welcome aboard.

just got back from the weekend...

4 for 4

(2 segments were on NW)

AND - I got my companion upgraded on all but the 1st segment (however, I gave my upgrade up on segment #1 to sit with my beloved).

the computer sent emails when it should have... it appears to be working better, possibly?

cpd

I'm Platinum, 20 for 20.

Weird thing is failure to get e-mail on return portion of two trips.

I'm NORTHWEST Silver

5 for 6 on Continental's EUA
6 for 6 on Northwest's EUA

The one I missed out was upgraded at the gate.

Here's a new one for me. My wife and I had traveled to LGA via CLE for the Thanksgiving Holiday. We upgraded for the LONG segment from Tampa to Cleveland using my silver card and a coupon for her. On the next leg I tried to do the same at the counter, since there were only two people in First due to weather delays and late connections. The agent refused to upgrade her for the short flight because the coupon was "non transferable". No mind you, I've used the same type of coupon for her twice before with no problems. Was the agent right? Yes. Was I happy, no. Particularly since I have 46,000 miles now and will be a gold in two weeks. Still, it wouldn't have killed them to do it. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

On the return trip, I called to upgrade the day of departure, figuring that since my wife and I were together the EUA would have skipped me. I was planning on using miles to upgrade my wife when the elite agent told me that I had been upgraded the night before. I was shocked! This is the first EUA upgrade I've gotten...ever. I asked if we could upgrade my wife. NO. Then could I go back to my seat next to her (we've only been married 11 months, so I still like her http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif ) which I booked four months ago? NO. Why? The airport had control of the seats. I hang up, hit redial, speak to another agent. No Problem. Amazing.

THEN, the inbound plane for first leg is late. We will miss our connection. The agent at LGA gets us on a flight out of Newark several hours later. They have us limoed over. Not only does this guy get us on a direct flight from Newark to Tampa, but he upgrades my wife and I just beacuse I asked if there were any seats in first. heck, I was going to use miles for my wife but he did it just to keep us happy. Now that's customer service .

I know they're only people, but the range of service I get from Continental really varies from excellent to insulting.

Just wanted to share the joy.

[This message has been edited by LouCap (edited 11-28-2000).]

IAH-LGA went well. Although did not get upgraded automatically and on the phone. I was pleasantly surprised to see the E-service station upgraded me. Later found out that this flight was delayed and all the Elites went to the earlier flight. The flight ended up being delayed for only 45mins. So I am happy.
Al

My first experience using EUA. We are booked EWR-TPA on Dec 23 CO577. Tickets were purchased in October. My husband and I are both Gold Elites (courtesy Centurion AMEX). At 1:24 am we were emailed that we had been upgraded to FC. ITN still shows 3 seats available for upgrade.

[This message has been edited by gabbysz (edited 12-21-2000).]

1 for 1 as a NW silver. I don't expect it to continue, but I was in no condition at 12:01 last to even dial a phone so I'll consider this my Christmas gift http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

As of today 4/7 as CO Gold. Two segments were on full fare coach (both upgraded). 2/4 on receiving e-mail notification.

3 for 4 so far without calling. I have a sneaking suspicion as a NW Silver I'm getting put in front of CO eltites somehow. Last flight I saw 4 CO Plat's (2 couples) head to the back while I was up front. After I used a kiosk to check-in and print my luggage tag (It was golf clubs for Christmas; I never check bags intentionally!) the counter agent asked if I was Platinum. I mumbled, " hurmmph Northwest hurrumph." Out came my 1B boarding passes and away I went http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cool.gif

Not sure they have the link with NW FF# quite right, but it's working for me now!

[This message has been edited by freefaller12k (edited 12-29-2000).]

That's OK..I've done the same with NW http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

As a CO Plat. So far this year--

10 for 10 on NW by calling
4 for 4 on CO by EUA.

I gather this success is typical for Platinums? Is anyone on FT keeping a full tally on EUA?

This year as Plat....0 for 3. Tried calling. no luck

Wow, none? What routes were they on?

I am 0 for 2 (Gold), but I got upgraded by calling/begging on the last segment as EUA somehow passed me by...

Next week I have four segments so we will see how that goes.

To add insult to injury, my coworker who got upgraded (Plat) was seated next to a newly minted Silver member upgraded via EUA, while I was summoned to the torture chamber.

1/3 TPA - IAH no EUA, but cleared wait list.
1/3 IAH - SEA EUA.

1/8 SEA - IAH EUA
1/8 IAH - TPA EUA

So, 3/4 for EUA with a save from the waitlist. Actually, there were 5 spots open from the waitlist. Hard to believe that many people missed the flight, especially since it was at 9am (no connections).

12 for 12 with EUA so far.....THANK YOU CO!!! Getting proper rest now that I don't have to call...Yahoooooo!!!!!!

12 for 12 with EUA so far.....THANK YOU CO!!! Getting proper rest now that I don't have to call...Yahoooooo!!!!!!

Shocked my departure EWR-MSY got the early morning e-mail: "your upgrade is cleared!" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

UPDATE: First class on the return MSY-EWR was completedly "sold out" according to the gate agent (who was getting annoyed at telling every elite who asked for upgrades of that fact.) I asked the agent if all of first were Platnium or revenue and he said that was confidential information.

10 seats in first. Passengers included a teenager.

Glad I got my aisle seat and a decent seat mate in a middle seat (who did not ask me to move even though his wife was on the other side also in a middle seat.)


[This message has been edited by Catman (edited 01-16-2001).]

Not to stir any stuff, but I'm batting 100% on around 50 flights since EUA started. Granted, I have had to go on the waitlist for a handful but got every one.

Yes, I am Plat.