When the announcement was made: A new angle
 

I've been reading most of the posts here about the new upgrade system for Continental Elites, but by no means all of them. I hadn't seen this point discussed, but if someone did make this point, my apologies. Great minds think alike. In the interest of openness, I want to say that I have no elite status on any airline. I am very interested in the airline industry, like many if not all of you, but I watch it as an outsider. I am not affiliated with any airline or travel provider, nor am I a frequent flyer of any airline. I watch from both the point of view of the customer and the airline, financially and operationally.

Many of you have complained about when the announcement was made, but I think it was made at a great time. Here's why:

Most of you have already requalifed for your ultimate elite goal, be it Silver, Gold, or Platinum. If not, you'll be hitting that goal in the next several weeks.

Now that you have already achieved that goal, Continental is giving you two months to see how the new system will work for you. None of you know exactly how this will work. Continental has released no details, and no one has had enough experience to know first hand. But Continental is giving you the opportunity to see how you will be affected by this new program.

You've already got your status. So keep flying Continental for the next two months, and see how you will turn out. If you maintain a 100% upgrade percentage, great. If your upgrade percentage is the exact same as it was last month, or last year, great. Stick with Continental. They're a great airline. But if your upgrade percentage drops, it's the perfect time of the year to leave. In January, get comp status on another airline. It'll be good for the entire year, and you've got yourself a new preferred airline.

Despite all the speculation here on how the system will work, none of you know for sure. You can find out how you will turn out under the new system, then make an educated choice on whether to stay or go.

Say they made the announcement in January, effective the following January. Based on all this board's speculation, you decide to leave, since you appear to be negatively affected. But you'll never know for sure. You are choosing blindly. That's never a good way to choose in my opinion. Here Continental is giving you the first hand opporuntity to see how you will do under the new system. Take that opportunity. Then if it doesn't work out for you, it'll be January, and you can say goodbye to Continental Airlines and leave.

My guess is that most of you will still do very well, even under the new program. But that means nothing. I don't know. You don't know. So test the waters for the next two months. Then stay, or go.

If you are a "captive" customer, and in the interest of nonstop flights, can't deflect elsewhere, don't jump to conclusions. You still might have that 100% upgrade percentage. You'll no for sure in the coming weeks. If you are captive and your upgrade percentage drops in the next two months, then go ahead and complain.

For those of you who think this timing was bad, please, tell me why. I've thought this through, and I can't come up with a good reason why announcement in January/effective following January is good. If that's what they did, they'd be hurting you, since you'd be guessing blindly. I agree that making the announcement in the middle of the year would be awful, but Continental didn't do that.

Comments welcome. Encouraged even!

BizJet

Very simple...

I changed jobs this year. I had to decide many months ago if I were going to take on the task of reaching Platinum on my own (more a problem with the time away from my family than the money) or striving for Gold, or settling for Silver.

I gave it extensive thought, and decided that Gold would have to be good enough for me this year. I have planned my time away from my family accordingly.

Now, all of that planning is useless, as the new, unannounced "autoupgrade" debacle is now the "autoscrew" for Gold and Silver elites.

I can't ask CO for the money back or the miles back or the time back that I would not have wasted on them if this were to be the new policy. "Testing the waters" for two months would not make me anything but more bitter over the screwing.

The only fair time to tell of a change that severely reduces benefits is way early in the year, before people have committed their time and money toward a goal that will not be there. The last time CO made a change like this, (changing the qualifying miles required for elite levels) they automatically bumped-up everyone one level for the following year - an extremely fair way to deal with the lack of notice, but one that offended the people who truly achieved the new Platinum level. At that time (and since) CO swore that there will never be another time when Platinum Elite will be provided on a complimentary basis, period. (As you may have read in other threads, this promise has been broken as well.)

Basically, to make changes in Frequent Flyer policies fairly, they need to be made in advance of the earning period, which for CO and most others is the begining of the year. Or, be prepared to extend courtesies to the folks that worked to achieve a level of status that is now severely lessened by the stupid change.

And don't forget the money someone might have paid already this year to do a mileage run to gain status (for certain perks). Now that they changed the rules which you counted on (otherwise you wouldn't have spent the milage run money) when you bought the tickets...do you think they will give the money back? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif That is another reason why it's not fair!

The thing is, you don't really pay anything for the FF miles. You wanted to fly somewhere, chose airline ABC, and got some ABC FF miles as a freebie.

If you bought FF miles on a specific plan, and the plan is changed detrimentally, you should be able to get a refund. But it's not possible to buy FF miles, so they're worth nothing. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif


P.S. yes, I know, some of us fly just for the FF miles, but that's not what you really purchased. What you bought was an airline ticket, and as long as you were flown EWR-IND-IAH-PHX-LAX-LAS-IAH-MCO-EWR, you have received what you paid for.

Not true. I BOUGHT BOTH. I wouldn't make mileage runs if it wasn't for the status.
And, you are mistaken. CO, AMEX, and others WILL sell you miles. They value them at 2 cents apiece.
It's like buying a box of craker jacks... The prize comes with and is EXPECTED. Remeber the lawsuit for the box missing the prize.

You guys are still making a huge assumption, which, in my opinion, you can't make.

You are assuming that you will hurt with this change. NONE OF YOU KNOW THAT! That's my point!!

How do you know that you will suffer? You don't! Make as many speculations as you want, but none of you know for sure!! Fly CO these two months, and then you'll know for sure. Then decide to stay or go.

I still will guess that most of you will not suffer. Not at all.

We do know the pecking order has changed, and in the middle of the year. That we do know.

Oops -- OK, so if FF miles can be purchased, different story. But for actual flown miles, as far as CO is concerned, you aren't buying those miles; those are free (mileage run tickets are just plain ol' airline tickets, regardless of how you personally label them).

The Cracker Jack box analogy means you expect to get miles with a ticket purchase, which isn't the problem here. It's not Cracker Jack's fault if the value of the trinket changes after purchase.

When buying mileage run airline tickets, you are accepting the risk of a future deterioration of FF mile values; it's like a non-guaranteed investment. The FF program document says something to this effect.



[This message has been edited by JS (edited 10-29-2000).]

Which brings this arguement around full circle.

CAN Co do this? Of course they can, it's their program.

SHOULD a loyalty marketing department change the rules with no warning in the middle to end of the year after everyone has already made their travel plans based on the old program? You decide.

Keep in mind the one time bump-up they put in effect the last time they raised the bar.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Or even better, remember the line from Al Pacino's character in Scarface? "Pucker-up, because I like to get kissed when I get ***ked" Make no mistake about it, we should all be asking CO to pucker-up, cause we're all getting a good ***king.



[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 10-30-2000).]

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

arturo sez sea the sex in the sky thred en the untied fourum. yu knot about two bee kised et untied.

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Loving, Caring, Honest, Intelligent, Empathetic, Creative, and Giving.

Cigarman, I believe I am correct in recalling that you agreed in another forum that the OnePass rules have not really changed, just the manner in which the upgrades are accomplished, but not the days you call in on.

I'm just curious then what you mean by "the pecking order has changed" ?? None of the day thresholds changed as far as I know, just the ability of people who WOULD HAVE GOTTEN upgrades had they called to get those upgrades before people who, ante, were getting upgrades because people of higher status were lazy and failed to call, right ?? Or have I missed your point ??

No, you are correct. My "revalation" occured after the above post. For Platinums the problem are is really only ties amoung Platinums, and how the seat will be rewarded. The Golds,and especially silvers are in trouble. Now any bozo with a centurian card will ace out a loyal silver.
Shame on me (for getting a little too excited). SHAME ON CO FOR GIVING AWAY STATUS TO ANYONE WITH THE CASH (for an AMEX Centurian) and screwing their loyal silvers/golds.

Cigarman:
You are correct that for us Platinums, the real issue is the pecking order among Platinums, since we are always on top, except for full Y (which I think is fair-If someone wants to plunk full Y down anytime,even at the airport to go to the head of the list, thats fine. CO is in business to make money.) The only semi-official information we have is the e-mail I received from someone at CO whom I believe is in a position to know. That individual clearly stated that the pecking order was on the basis of date of reservation. Period. At this point, we have no evidence to believe that something else (fare, longevity, etc) has anything to do with the order of upgrade award. CONTINENTAL, to is detriment, has failed to issue a one sentence statment that the pecing order IS based on date of reservation. Until they do so, the rumors and speculating will continue. I think that this is more a situation of VERY poor cummunications than an attempt to create a secret upgrade program. However, until they make it clear, the speculation will continue and they will lose memebers because of it.

Vulcan is "spot on" IMHO! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

And the portion of NJDavid's remarks that I do most empathize with is the "with no warning" issue! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

It's always better to give some advance notice! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Bizjet, funny I looked at the timing issue totally opposite from you. They did not give 2 months notice, they gave zippo, the change isnt happening Jan 1, its happened already.

Also I wonder if they will give a free refund to anyone that has already booked a mileage run flight, since the terms of the onepass program changed after they booked the ticket.

I think these "october and november suprises" by continental are terrible customer service.

I agree that only time will tell if we are effected by this change. I suspect that I will suffer slightly, but thats just a guess. What I know for certain is my upgrades will not go up, I'm 95%+ and the only segments I missed were ones that were sold out of FC well before the 3 day period.

What I object to with the EUA system, is you have no way of knowing your upgrade chances on a given flight. ITN becomes useless, it might show the flight as A9 F9, but when you book your ticket you have no way of knowing how deep the autoupgrade list is. You could even up picking a flight that you have zero chance of an upgrade.

I have less information with which to make a decision. This doesn't help me.

Boomer says, "What I object to with the EUA system, is you have no way of knowing your upgrade chances on a given flight. ITN becomes useless, it might show the flight as A9 F9, but when you book your ticket you have no way of knowing how deep the autoupgrade list is. You could even up picking a flight that you have zero chance of an upgrade."

AMEN BROTHER!

Well, even under the old system, if you booked a ticket 2 or 3 weeks ahead, and ITN showed A9 F9, you didn't have any way of knowing if there were 20 platinums and 10 golds and 10 silvers waiting to upgrade, vs. only a few, right? So, if you were a platinum, you could jump in at the 3 day window to get the upgrade. But if you were a gold and silver you didn't have a way of knowing to "avoid the flight". Also, when it showed A9 F9 in the old system, who's to say that F class wouldn't get sold out or full of Y-fare gold/plat upgrades before you even got the chance to upgrade. Just playing devils advocate http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I do agree with your argument though, it would be nice to know how deep on the upgrade list you are when you call to make a reservation (especially if you are gold, or silver like me).

Cigarman: First you call me lazy, now you wanna be my bruddah? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Studentflyer, I agree under the old system you didnt know who else was booked, but it wasn't as important(at least for a platinum) to know. Gold and Silver always had this lack of information problem.

As for FC getting sold out before the 3 day window, I don't think anyone in this long running debate(whether they be on the Less filling or Tastes great side) had a problem with Continental giving FC seats to people who paid to sit in FC. This was always an exposure, but at least you'd get to see seat inventory and be able to make an informed decision.

Take the following situation:

Your considering 2 different flights:

EWR-PBI

flight 1089 shows A3 F3
flight 1085 shows A9 F5

Under the old system, you would probably book 1085 as it hasmore FC available and thus you most likely have a better shot at an upgrade.

Under the new system you have no way of knowing that 15 platinums or on the waitlist for 1085 and only 1 on the waitlist for 1089.
In this case an upgrade on 1085 would be extremely unlikely, while an upgrade on 1089 would be possible. With EUA in place, you do not have the information necessary to compare the relative upgradability of 2 flights, with the old system you did.

That was the major focus or my point about lack of information.

Welcome back from your trip Boomer. Glad to have someone else in the discussion who see's what's going on....