LawFlyer

CO refunded it to my corporate card, which my secretary handles. What kind of question is that?

Bonehead

I thought that it was a bit out of line as well.

ElkeNorEast

Do you earn Elite miles when you fly on those J tickets?

Not that important, just curious

BenjaminNYC

Agreed. Especially with the frown. Not nice, and certainly uncalled for.

divrdrew

First, can I say that we should all lay off the personal attacks here. There were many vicious comments made in this thread that are out of line. Let's end the personal attacks...we're all adults here.

I am sorry to hear about your ordeal and, to be honest, I don't think I would have handled it as professionally as you did. I too think you were fairly compensated, although at the time, I suspect that you felt no compensation was worth what you were going through. However, I think that your ordeal brings up a very interesting point. We've all seen this happen on 'Airline' on TV and Southwest's solution is simple...either fit into a seat with the armrest down or buy an extra ticket. Now, there are a number of lawsuits pending that concern the treatment and embarassment of those pax.

However, there is still a bit of a problem with that...I have seen people slide into seats with armrests down only to have their body still spill halfway over to the next seat. If our purchase is in fact a contract with the airline for this 'cube' of space, and they allow someone to spill over into our rented space, does that violate the contract? Does it entitle us to a refund? I am compassionate, but at the same time I want my space and don't want someone's largess to infringe on my space, and I'm not talking about the slightly large people with broad shoulders, but the extreme cases of obesity where they are physically as large as two seats.

I guess my point / questions are as follows:

1 - Is our ticket a contract to rent a 'cube' of space?
2 - If that space is violated, does it void the contract and entitle us to compensation?
3 - Why don't the airlines have a 'dummy' seat in someplace not visible to other pax where they can see if people fit without it having to be embarrassing?
4 - Finally, if airlines do in fact have guidelines, why are they so rarely enforced?

As the news and press has made us aware of it, there is a growing obesity problem in this country. Unless the airlines find a way to deal with this problem soon, I fear that it will only get worse as time goes by.

BenjaminNYC

This type of attitude is exactly the problem. In your post, you listed two possilble sources of blame:
1. Genetic
2. An underactive society

So it can't POSSIBLE be the fat person's fault right? Must be either his genes or society, right? How can you actually blame the fat person for being fat? That's so unfair! That's so INSENSITIVE! Ooo, oooooo, I need SENSITIVITY training.

NNH

LawFlyer, I think you handled a difficult and sensitive situation very well. I'm sure I wouldn't have thought of using the crew rest seats, and I doubt I would have remained as polite and dignified as you did.

A few thoughts occur to me, for general input:
1) I agree with the idea of COS buying a second seat at some discount. However, I can imagine many "larger" business travellers having trouble persuading their companies to buy a second Y seat (F or J is out of question for many firms)
2) Clearly, a COS should not intrude sideways onto the seat next to them, but I guess that also means a taller person like me (6'4") cannot complain if my knees get in the way of the reclined chair in front of me. The same logic implies that it is purely my problem
3) With this becoming a hotter topic almost day by day, how long before the inevitable lawsuits by some COS group against airlines...

mbreuer

I believe that the lawsuit has come and gone:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/archi...x.php/t-259989

LawFlyer

I just KNEW someone was going to ask this...and you did!

The J tickets I got for (1) giving up my original BF seat and moving to Coach, and (2) the silliness and difficulty that occurred once I ARRIVED in Coach regarding the "COS" and the FA's attitudes and responses do not earn miles. They are comp tickets, "courtesy" of CO, for my troubles. I have no grouse with that; afterall, CO is flying us free from Dallas to Rio de Janeiro over New Year's, which is 11,000 miles roundtrip per person, so... I probably don't deserve to actually earn OP miles on those flights.

I will hand it to CO on this one, though: We all know how difficult it can be to USE those comp tickets, but I told the Concierge exactly when I wanted to go and return from IAH to GIG, and he made it happen right over the phone from his office (or cube, or desk, or whatever). I hated the experience, obviously, but CO has actually done the right thing after-the-fact. In other words: yes, I will keep flying them because it seems they took the time to correct the problem, even it the action in the air was less than adequate.

I still laugh when I tell people that I had to come up with the solution myself and STILL endure the stares and scowls from a few FAs. For you wonderful CO FAs on this board: I know YOU would not stare and scowl under the circumstances, but why would ANY of your colleagues do so? Perhaps the answer is precisely what CO told me: the worse offender was young (in age and experience) and maybe she didn't realize that I was already trying to help everyone make the best of a difficult situation facing the next 11 hours together.

BUT (I have not shared this detail until now), I was offended by the fact that one FA made a comment to another FA before taking the seat next to mine for her rest-break: "It will be difficult to relax at all while a demanding passenger with an overactive sense of entitlement sits in the other crew rest seat. It's not a PASSENGER rest seat, is it?" I hesitated to post that for fear that some FAs would think I am bashing them -- which I AM NOT doing. To the contrary, almost every FA I've had the pleasure to meet on CO's European routes have been exemplary. Still, this was not called for, and I had not hijacked their seat without extreme circumstances requiring it...so why be rude to me? I just don't get it. I would not DREAM of speaking to my attorney colleagues about my clients that way.

Now, here's another thorny question: Do you think I would have received all this "love and attention" after the fact if...:

(1) ...if I were not CO Plat?
(2) ...If I were not a "CO-star" (a name which sort of sickens me)?
(2) ...if I were not on a paid J ticket?
(3) ...if I were a one-time (or occasional) CO customer on a deeply discounted Q ticket - like the guy in 17C?

Would the peace-offerings I got have been different or non-existent? As a litigator and avid consumer-rights advocate, I would hope that CO would have done the right thing anyway. (?)

LawFlyer

Please contain the howls of laughter on this one:

I just checked my online OnePass account info, and the flight from CDG - IAH (CO 11) with the COS incident that started this whole mess DID NOT POST WITH MILES ACCRUING AT ALL, although my onward leg from IAH - DFW did post!!

I called OnePass just 20 min's ago and they said that because the Gate Agents at CDG had actually re-assigned me in the manifest at the request of the Concierge to a new class of service (free Coach seat), AND because CO refunded the money I paid for the J-ticket altogether, they didn't owe me any OnePass miles for the trip. They said that this leg (CO 11) had become a comp-seat trip for me before the doors closed, and comp seats do not accrue OnePass miles under any circumstances!

So, here's the math. Because I was "the nice guy" and gave up my BF seat, I lost (1) my J-class fare bonus miles, (2) my base miles, (3) my Elite-level Plat bonus miles, and (4) my EQMs for the entire flight. That's almost 20,000 OnePass miles JUST FOR THAT SEGMENT!! OK, now I'm feeling ripped off again, even if that's technically within CO's policies. Sorry gang, but that doesn't feel fair somehow.

Yes, I'm pleased with the response on the other issues, and I don't want to sound like I can never be pleased...but do you think I should call the Concierge back (the guy who called to make amends) and ask him to fix that, too? Or, am I getting what I bargained for, in your opinion? Frankly, the Concierge in Paris NEVER said that I would be losing all OnePass accrual for switching seats; and on top of everything else, this seems a bit, well...ungracious of them.

MBM3

Spare me the drama my friend. There is a range of medical reasons for overweight folks, myself included, as well as the simple eat to much/sweat too little segment of the population. Perhaps you should stop and think before tossing out generalizations and labels.

climbermom

Lawflyer, you DEFINITELY need to call back. I trust that CO will do the right thing, especially since you're platinum, lol.

Keep us posted...

CraigS

Lets see they gave you about $12,000.00 to $15,000.00 compensation for a 9 hour flight with the fat lady part of the way... a foot rub from Chevon could only be better.... Use the vegas rule "quit while your ahead!".

Tod E Tosser

LawFlyer: well stated and well done. I'll bet you are a top-notch mouthpiece.
I'm not sure what to think about the mileage issue. I can understand CO's perspective, although I suspect you could get them to see it your way with a little cajoling. Personally I'd be inclined to call it a day unless I needed the EQM to keep up my status. Good luck and think thin!

puddy

I don't understand. If I have the math right, the CDG-IAH segment would get you 5026 base miles, 2513 fare class bonus miles, and 6282 plat bonus miles for a total of 13,821, with 7539 of those miles as EQM. Where are you getting 20,000 miles? I wouldn't expect miles for that segment since they did refund your fare. It seems fair to me.