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Politically Incorrect: The "fat" pax policy

Politically Incorrect: The "fat" pax policy

 
Old Nov 9, 2004, 6:28 pm
  #16  
 
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If all the FFs take a firm stand on this issue, then perhaps the airlines will require the COS to buy a second seat.
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Old Nov 9, 2004, 6:36 pm
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by climbermom
If all the FFs take a firm stand on this issue, then perhaps the airlines will require the COS to buy a second seat.
Agreed. Instead of them (and the rest of the airline ground crew) taking responsibility for it, they throw it in the passengers lap to deal with it.

My g/f and I watch Airline and get into fights all the time over what constitutes a COS/POS (she used to be heavier so sort of sympathizes with them). However we both agree that if you need to have the armrest up, you basically disqualify yourself. We may not be able to do anything about people who flow over the top of an armrest into a neighboring seat, but we can definitely defend our waist area by keeping the armrest down. I would be absolutely p*ssed off if any airline representative told me I needed to raise my armrest (basically opening my space to them) to accomodate someone else.

Jeff
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Old Nov 9, 2004, 6:45 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by Jim Phillips
About a year or so ago on HKG-ORD FA's were milling about the coach cabin after we hit cruise altitude to spread out into empty seats unfortunates who got wedged into middle seats on the 747.

The FA's were actually coming into the Premier Zone/Economy+, and spotting that I had a row to myself (4 across), one came over and 'assertively' asked that I yield space to another pax.

I motioned the FA to come in closer, and in a hushed tone asked her if she wouldn't mind finding other seats so that this 1K (myself) could enjoy the extra space.

After a quick wink from the FA, she went elsewhere to locate better seating for the otherwise hapless.

As we were on approach about 15 hours later, the same FA came back with a bottle of wine wrapped in a napkin, and said, "Thanks for your business..."

Oh wait this is the CO bulletin board.

Interesting story, Jim although I'm not sure what it has to do with the thread. I wonder if the plane was empty enough to move people around so freely is related to UAs bankruptcy. The first budget people imagine is cut is usually maintenance, which might keep some flyers away from certain airlines, especially on long flights. Anyhow, hard to say why the plane was that empty.
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Old Nov 9, 2004, 7:30 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Elite Nomore


Fat people are fat because they eat like pigs and don't exercise. Enough of this "I have a glandular condition" crap. If there are any fat people that are reading this you should put the donut down and go take a walk. It's time we all stopped being so PC to "people of size" and start making them pay for their gluttony and their lack of discipline and self control. They infringe on my personal space, they smell from not being able to properly clean themselves and they put all of us at risk by flying. My mother was over a hundred pounds overweight and now she's dead because her size. She could have cared less about her health and her size and just wanted to eat all the time. She flew all the time and I know for a fact that didn't give a rat's ... about the guy sitting next to her in 17A.

I cannot believe the number of people I see everyday that weigh 300, 400, 500, even 600 pounds. And many of them are young kids. Kids who have been brought up on processed foods and 64oz cokes and "all you can eat buffets". I think CO should institute a fat tax for any passenger that cannot fit under a standard seat belt. Perhaps $100 per inch for every inch of the seat belt extender. Maybe that'll discourage them from "supersizing" their next meal from Micky D's.
It sounds like you have some unresolved issues with your mother. I don't think this is the place to air them, however.

If someone can't fit in their seat, they should be moved and have an empty seat (if possible), or buy an extra seat. The treatment given to the OP was not appropriate.
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Old Nov 9, 2004, 7:37 pm
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Elite Nomore
Fat people are fat because they eat like pigs and don't exercise. Enough of this "I have a glandular condition" crap. If there are any fat people that are reading this you should put the donut down and go take a walk. It's time we all stopped being so PC to "people of size" and start making them pay for their gluttony and their lack of discipline and self control. They infringe on my personal space, they smell from not being able to properly clean themselves and they put all of us at risk by flying. My mother was over a hundred pounds overweight and now she's dead because her size. She could have cared less about her health and her size and just wanted to eat all the time. She flew all the time and I know for a fact that didn't give a rat's ... about the guy sitting next to her in 17A.

I cannot believe the number of people I see everyday that weigh 300, 400, 500, even 600 pounds. And many of them are young kids. Kids who have been brought up on processed foods and 64oz cokes and "all you can eat buffets". I think CO should institute a fat tax for any passenger that cannot fit under a standard seat belt. Perhaps $100 per inch for every inch of the seat belt extender. Maybe that'll discourage them from "supersizing" their next meal from Micky D's.
I'll go further than that. My wife was diagnosed with a "glandular condition" last year. The particular one she's got is called Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, and it basically means that the immune system attacks the thyroid until the thyroid stops functioning completely. About 20% of the population has this particular condition, and it's treatable with a relatively inexpensive synthetic hormone treatment which has no side effects. The condition itself usually results in extreme fatigue, depression, and rapid significant weight gain when it first sets in. Any competent MD can pick it up with a routine blood test fairly easily.

Now, in order to be treated for this condition, someone has to (1) have a competent doctor, (2) see their doctor regularly enough that the doctor will notice sudden changes in energy level or weight, and (3) be willing to say to their doctor something to the effect of "I've felt a bit tired lately and I think I might be putting on a little weight." That's usually enough to get tested, since this condition is one of the most obvious diagnoses. The problem is that most Americans either don't have competent doctors, don't see them regularly, don't bother to give them enough information to do their jobs, or some combination thereof.

Sure, this "glandular disorder" causes weight gain, but I know several people who've had this condition diagnosed, and all of them returned to their original weight a couple of months into the treatment. If everyone who used a "glandular disorder" as an excuse for being heavy bothered to talk to their doctor when the symptoms first set in, there would either be a lot fewer COSs out there or a lot less use of the excuse.

The irony is that the government spends more money taking care of people who are on disability because they didn't have proper preventative care than it would have cost to pay for the preventative care in the first place. Unfortunately it's politically impractical to simply pay for everyone's preventative care going forward by writing off the 15% of people using 75% of medical resources...
-JMP
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Old Nov 9, 2004, 8:04 pm
  #21  
 
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Maybe I'm not following, but my question is:

She sat in B. You were squished into A. What about the guy in C? Wasn't he pretty miserable too? How did he squeeze in?

If I were you, I would have gotten off and gone the next day if at all possible
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Old Nov 9, 2004, 8:12 pm
  #22  
 
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Hmmmm.........just had a thought. Most airlines have the "bag sizer" at the gate to see if your carry-on will fit. Maybe they should make POS try to sit in a bulkhead seat (non-movable armrests) and if they can fit, they can take their original seat. If not, SOL.

Of course, this is all tongue-in-cheek, but seriously, common sense needs to prevail. If a person doesn't fit in their seat, they need to buy another seat. If another seat isn't available, they need to wait until there is a flight with the proper amount of seats. Fair is fair....
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Old Nov 9, 2004, 8:19 pm
  #23  
 
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Did Mr. 17C squeeze into his partial seat? I think the thing to do would have been to wait until the heifer fell asleep, stuck an apple in her mouth, then you and 17C could have enjoyed a luau until she was down to reasonable proportions.

I guess that's a little insensitive. Few people get so morbidly obese for medical reasons; it's lack of discipline. That's their prerogative of course, unless they try to force the rest of us to pay for it. My mother has had a "glandular condition" ever since I can remember, and when she decided to lose weight she went on Atkins. Surprise: it worked. It worked for me as well, although admittedly I had no medical condition to "blame."

Obviously the OP was treated abysmally. The crew was only concerned with their own logistics and not the torture they were about to inflict upon him for a 10 (?) hour flight. To the OP: this is a serious (albeit unusual) problem, and I hope you can convince CO that you are not looking to be bought off with a few goodies, but rather want them to develop a more sound contingency plan for these situations.
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Old Nov 9, 2004, 8:22 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by ironmanjt
Maybe I'm not following, but my question is:

She sat in B. You were squished into A. What about the guy in C? Wasn't he pretty miserable too? How did he squeeze in? If I were you, I would have gotten off and gone the next day if at all possible
Good question -- sorry I wasn't clear. At first, before the C-pax boarded, the fat lady was "planted" in C and spilling into B, while I cowered in A. But after the C-pax arrived and demanded his seat, Fat Lady huffed and puffed over to B (sort of) just enough to clear most of the C seat. When she moved over to B, she angled toward me (in A), thus spilling all her avoirdupois onto my legs and side. GAG!

To be sure, the C-pax still had a bit of her to deal with -- mainly the sides of her ... and bosom as they squished over and under the armrest. But I had SO MUCH of her on top of me that when I finally rose and hurdled over her, my right leg and right-side-chest/shoulder were soaked with her perspiration.

Yes, had I known this would actually be my personal hell for the next 5000 miles, I would have bolted off the plane. But by the time the C-pax arrived to claim his seat, they were shutting the cabin door -- AND I thought, "Surely there will be ONE seat open on this plane somewhere." But there was not (except the crew rest seats at the back of the second BizFirst cabin). This was also the last flight of the day from CDG - IAH, and I had to get back for a hearing the following day, early.

Interesting update: Since my original post this afternoon, I got a voice-mail at work from a CO BizFirst concierge in Houston, who left his name and direct number, e-mail, etc. He politely asked that I please call him as soon as I can. Well, either I'm in trouble, or he's calling to make amends.

(1) Am I in for a thrashing, or for an apology?
(2) If it's the apology (not the thrashing), what should I realistically ask for? Give me some good ideas before I call and I'll give you an update tomorrow PM.

Last edited by LawFlyer; Nov 9, 2004 at 8:29 pm
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Old Nov 9, 2004, 8:25 pm
  #25  
 
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I can honestly say that I was laughing out loud reading your story and I sympathize. Sometimes I am in the airport and I see a really fat person stuffing his face and I just want to go over and slap him/her. Its gross. True story: Once I was scuba diving and there was this guy who (no exaggeration) must have been 425 lbs. They didnt have a weight belt that fit around his massive girth, so they (no joke) took some extra anchor line and used that. I was shocked becuase A) its very very unsafe, in an emergency you can't simply "dump" your weight belt and B) I cant imagine that any dive company would allow such a thing to take place due to how unsafe it is and C) it was actually funny as hell to see this fat ******* wrap an anchor line with probably 100lbs of weight around his body in order to sink himself.
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Old Nov 9, 2004, 8:26 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Tod E Tosser
I hope you can convince CO that you are not looking to be bought off with a few goodies, but rather want them to develop a more sound contingency plan for these situations.
Absolutely! I'm with you, Tosser. See my "update" post I just posted a few minutes ago with questions at the bottom relating to your suggestion. Any ideas for what I should say?

Last edited by LawFlyer; Nov 9, 2004 at 8:31 pm
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Old Nov 9, 2004, 8:31 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by LawFlyer
(1) Am I in for a thrashing, or for an apology?
(2) If it's the apology (not the thrashing), what should I realistically ask for? Give me some good ideas before I call and I'll give you an update tomorrow PM.
1) A thrashing? From a company to a customer? Unlikely.

2) First, ask for them to establish a clear and firm policy regarding overweight/oversize pax. You said it yourself in your original post--what if there had been an in-flight emergency? Would you have been able to evacuate the aircraft quickly? Just like drunk pax are considered safety risks, so should obese ones.

Second (and I hope you have names of the FAs involved), ask for them to reprimand or otherwise deal with the FAs who were beyond unhelpful but actually disrespectful and actively rude to you. Their behavior was unacceptable; they were quite frankly not doing their jobs.

Third, don't ask for a thing in compensation. If you do, they'll get the impression (right or wrong) that you're only whining to get free stuff. If they want to offer you something, that's fine, but I wouldn't give them any suggestions of what that should be. If you get the airline to actually look at their "fat pax" policy and reprimand those FAs, you should take a lot of satisfaction in that.
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Old Nov 9, 2004, 8:33 pm
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by LawFlyer
Good question -- sorry I wasn't clear. At first, before the C-pax boarded, the fat lady was "planted" in C and spilling into B, while I cowered in A. But after the C-pax arrived and demanded his seat, Fat Lady huffed and puffed over to B (sort of) just enough to clear most of the C seat. When she moved over to B, she angled toward me (in A), thus spilling all her avoirdupois onto my legs and side. GAG!

To be sure, the C-pax still had a bit of her to deal with -- mainly the sides of her ... and bosom as they squished over and under the armrest. But I had SO MUCH of her on top of me that when I finally rose and hurdled over her, my right leg and right-side-chest/shoulder were soaked with her perspiration.

Yes, had I known this would actually be my personal hell for the next 5000 miles, I would have bolted off the plane. But by the time the C-pax arrived to claim his seat, they were shutting the cabin door -- AND I thought, "Surely there will be ONE seat open on this plane somewhere." But there was not (except the crew rest seats at the back of the second BizFirst cabin). This was also the last flight of the day from CDG - IAH, and I had to get back for a hearing the following day, early.

Interesting update: Since my original post this afternoon, I got a voice-mail at work from a CO BizFirst concierge in Houston, who left his name and direct number, e-mail, etc. He politely asked that I please call him as soon as I can. Well, either I'm in trouble, or he's calling to make amends.

(1) Am I in for a thrashing, or for an apology?
(2) If it's the apology (not the thrashing), what should I realistically ask for? Give me some good ideas before I call and I'll give you an update tomorrow PM.

How exciting! Please update the board as soon as you speak with this mysterious person, I cant wait to see what happens. For what its worth, I bet you will get an apology. You didnt do anything wrong, and all of this is a result of you being a nice guy, so keep that in mind
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Old Nov 9, 2004, 8:56 pm
  #29  
 
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pax rent a cube of space

I too have had similar story (singular, no need to elaborate, others have clearly told the gist of it). My feeling after talking with a FA on the subject was that passengers are renting space to go from point A to B in various stages of service. We are renting a cube of rectangular airspace, and it is the airline's job to get us there in a reasonable timeframe. If a passenger goes over their space, they are actually in 2 (or in the case of the OP, 3) spaces, and should pay for such. If they were in the shipping business, you could not overflow one container into another without expecting to pay. Neither should you here.

On one sympathetic note to GA's & FA's. Imagine the worst possible scenario of delayed flights, airline problems, and at last minute on a fully sold out flight these 400+ lb passengers appear. Is this the type of argument you relish to have telling them they exceed the space they purchased? It's not pretty, will be seen as not PC, but it's still needed. They can't ride a roller coaster at Disney if they can't get the safety restraint to fit, we can't put bags under the seat if they don't fit, why are morbidly obese customers any different? It's not discrimination; it's simply a requirement of passage to fit within the cube. "Unfortunately sir/madam, we won't be able to accomodate you on this flight as we will need you to purchase 2/3 seats to safely seat you. We have a flight later on that we can do this for you."
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Old Nov 9, 2004, 9:18 pm
  #30  
 
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Sorry for your troubles, but this is one of the most entertaining threads I've read in awhile! Quite a freak show full of grinning idiots.

If the fat lady bought a walk-up fare on a transAtlantic flight, CO certainly charged enough to give you some compensation. Your first deal to shift from BizFirst to Coach is irrelevent here; even on a free ticket you were entitled to a full seat.

At first I thought you were going to resort to sitting in a crew jump seat, but the available crew rest area (normal) seat was such an obvious alternative, it does seem like they were giving you a hard time.

I guess if you're really desperate there's always the toilets or the galleys - maybe that would get the crew's attention!!
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