"The Waitlist is Closed"
 

On a number of occasions, upon inquiring about BF upgrades, I have been told that the "waitlist in closed" and that no one can override the computer to open it. Various reasons are given for this state of affairs, from "there are too many people on the list" to "if we put people on the list and they don't clear, then they badger our cabin crew" to "we don't just give away our premium product for free" (this last comment sparked a long debate on the definition of 'free').

Since waitlists are organized by elite status, I don't understand why a BF waitlist would ever be closed to a Platinum member as he would likely "trump" a good number of others on the list -- and who knows, could jump to the head of the line!

Does anyone have any information on why/when waitlists are closed and what the remedies are for "forcing it open"?

I disagree about platinums gettings into the list as you described. If a waitlist (any list for this example) is defined with 20 spots and is full - it is full!. It does not matter if the one that wishes to be 21st in the list has higher or lower priority once inside - what matters is that 20 people have registered and it is full. That one person with no priority listed at number 20 registered before you and you as a platinum have no right to force him/her out!

I believe that by saying that the waitlist is full, CO are trying to tell you that you cannot get this upgrade, even if you do tricks and force reopeining of the waitlist.

What you are implying is that the waitlist is ordered by who called first, when we know it is ordered by elite status. Thus, in your example, if there were 20 spots on the list and a platinum elite called in as number 20, he would not in fact be the 20th person on the list, but depending on the number of other platinum elites on the list, much farther up.

It could very well just be an information technology issue--a fixed-length data structure for the waitlist would not be too shocking. The airlines have been using computer reservation systems since well before the relational database model became popular, and like many companies they may have a lot of 1960s-era COBOL legacy code running somewhere behind the scenes on a big water-cooled mainframe. (Disclaimer: I don't have any actual firsthand knowledge of this, purely speculation.)

Waitlist Nonsense
 

I recently flew IAH-NRT with a full Y fare and had hoped to use miles to upgrade to J. There was no availability (with a full Y and as a Platinum!) to upgrade, so I was waitlisted. A few weeks passed and I called to check on the waitlist... and was told something was awry with my reservation and I wasn't waitlisted properly. The agent tried to waitlist me but I was told the list was closed and I was out of luck. I called back 3x to check with other agents (I thought they were making stuff up) and the 3rd agent quoted a line from my record that showed I had talked to the 2nd agent and she had informed me the waitlist was closed.

To make a long story short, on day of departure, I paid the fare difference from Y to J in the President Club to make the upgrade. And I enjoyed riding in J to Tokyo with 3 open seats around me.

So I guess CO generated additional revenue while screwing a high-fare paying Platinum Elite :)

This is not what I said.
I said that if there are 20 spots, there should not be a 21st spot on the list. The way the airline orders the "lucky" 20 that made it to the list is it's own deal and was not mentioned in my example. If the #20 person that registered to the waitlist is a plat and that makes him automatically on top of the list, so be it (and righfuly so!).

Airlines usualy give their Golds and Platinums an ability to book last minute full-fare tickets and get a guaranteed seat even if the flight is sold-out. In this case, for a major revenue (full-fare Y or J ticket) they will be a little flexible with waitlists and overbooking. They never mentioned anything about being flexible with upgrades when you are not the 1st and not the 2nd to ask for it (or even if you are).

Hopefully they don't run the list that stupidly. They should only close the list, in that scenrio, once they have 20 Platinums on the list. Until that point non-Platinums should be bumped off the list as Plats are added.

Of course, I'm too chicken to waitlist -- especially off a Y fare! (Holy Moly!) Especially since I don't think I can as an NW elite. But I did find a decent Z fare for late June....

Steve

I disagree. This way, non-elites (or Silvers and Golds for the matter) will never get anything. The list should close at the pre-set size, no matter who is on it and what is their status. Those who make it inside would be sorted by their status and if 20 spaces clear for the upgrade, the non-elite at #20 on the list should get it ahead of #21 Platinum who did not make it to the list to begin with.

BINGO! This is the real reason that the waitlist is limited. It is an IT issue, not another "enhancement".

And this would be inconsistent with CO's policies in what way? And counter-intuitive for what reason? Whyever would you want to reward non-elites, or even silvers, before plats?

It's called "why you should make yourself a plat."

Steve

It would most likely be a TPF system.

Apirchik, not only do I disagree with your logic, but with your assumption! Why should a waitlist close at an arbitrary number of names?
A waitlist is not static, it changes as people drop off (for whatever reason) or when seats become available on the flight and upgrades are awarded. By closing the waitlist at a fixed number of names, the variable nature of a waitlist is not taken into account. Should the customer continue to call back to see if a spot on the waitlist has opened? Why not just put him on the waitlist to begin with? After all, that is the purpose of such a list. Further, you posit that the waitlist should be governed by two criteria: when someone makes his reservation and his elite status. Why? Normal upgrades don't have a "time" component. Waitlists should be organized by elite status (as they are currently) and not be closed at an arbitrary number of names (as they seem to be currently).

The number of BF seats on a plane are limited to a fixed number. Not all of these seats are available for upgrade. The airline should allow waitlisting the X number of upgradable seats plus a few extras for cancellations. There is no point in creating a 100 pax BF upgrade waitlist for a 757 with 16 total BF seats.

Continental (at this point of time) prefer revenue much over happy Platinums. Whenever they feel they will be able to sell a BF seat, they will not give it for upgrade. When they have 2-3 BF seats on a full flight, they would rather try to sell it 'till the last moment and give op-upgrades if needed, than give those seats for upgrades to their plats for miles.

I return to my original post in this thread - In my history, whenever Continental told me things like - "waitlist is closed" or "we do not take any more requests", it was their way of telling me that even if I talk to the right people and get on the closed list, I will not get the upgrade.

Wow, if CO is using static vs. dynamic storage allocation for datatypes such as this, they really got screwed on their software!

As noted above, the reservation systems that are behind all of the fancy front ends are at least 40 years old. Every bit of information cost in both storage and communication, hence the cryptic codes. It would not surprise me at all that there is a hard limit of 20 PNRs associated with a waitlist.