LAX-EWR with flat beds
 

Having recently flown CO 752 F flat beds for the first time transcon, I am now ready to switch all my travel from UA ps F to CO 752 F.

Do you think it is pretty safe to expect that flights towards end of schedule will remain as 752s? Have these 2 daily flights (later morning ex-LAX, mid-afternoon ex-EWR) been stable 752s for years?

What is the timing for the UA ps premium cabin refresh to flat beds?

CO's 'prime' EWR-LAX-EWR frequencies (which coincide with EWR transatlantic flights both eastbound and westbound) have been operated with 757-200 equipment for a long time. I'd say there is an excellent chance that those flights will remain with internationally-configured aircraft.

I think the p.s. reconfigurations will begin in mid-2012 and take about a year to complete. I look forward to the new product.

Do you all think
 

PS will continue to be exclusively from JFK, or done from EWR as well?

Just keep in mind that in the event of an aircraft substitution or cancellation, CO doesn't offer any type of compensation because they don't market or promise that route as having premium seating. So even if they leave the 757-200 flights on the route (which I hope they do), be prepared for an occasional 737-800 with standard domestic first class seats. Not fun!

I sure hope not!

There's massive demand for premium cabin space to New York, not Newark. Additionally, it permits connections to the *A carriers operating out of JFK.

Unless you're on the redeye it's really not the end of the world for a day flight, is it?

Perhaps you're failing to consider that EWR is closer to most locations in Manhattan than JFK. And the traffic to get to EWR is much more consistent than JFK, which can be a real cr@p shoot.

My usual route is EWR - SFO. I get upgraded on that route about 10% of the time as the F cabin is mainly sold out in advance on sCO. Very rarely does anyone get an upgrade. On occasion I'll take the sUA ps flights due to times / availability / price and these always seem to have much better availability in the premium cabins.

I'm sure a lot of that is due to the lack of feeder flights into JFK. But there just seems to be (anecdotal of course) less premium traffic demand out of JFK compared to EWR. My money is on UA moving the ps product over to EWR, eventually.

Surely you're joking, right?

I didn't really understand that either...

After all, UA has its PS into JFK, and AA has flagship service transcon into JFK, while DL has its new premium BE-Lite into JFK. And let's not forget VX's FC, with its 55" seat pitch, also into JFK.

There is nothing comparable into EWR, even if a few of the EWR-LAX/SFO flights are operated using the flat-bed 752's...

I agree with the poster, with a caveat.

EWR for CO/UA has far more premium domestic class passengers versus JFK.

I do agree, however, that ps needs to stay at JFK due to other airlines'
offerings and the *A links.

Hence there is no need for CO/UA at EWR to differentiate itself.

Right, though the *A choice out of JFK is kind of a joke. If you fly international on *A you generally do it out of EWR. There are a few options, but the in-town airports are dominated by OW & ST.

Not likely that they'll expand to EWR, as much as I'd like them to do so. EWR-SFO, they're the only airline operating this route. EWR-LAX, you also have AA, but they aren't providing a premium product, so no competitive reason for UA to do so. Out of JFK, OTOH, you have DL's domestic BE, AA's flagship, and I'd even go far enough to say VX. I know a bunch of people who will even fly B6, as it's the most comfortable Y product on that route. (Same seat pitch as current all E+ on p.s.)

Why do you hope not? If you generally fly p.s. and it was expanded to EWR, how does this negatively impact you? If anything, it's better as you now have more choice.

For years I have argued that EWR desperately needed a true premium transcon service, provided by CO, obviously.

And for years I have been confronted with arguments that there is "no demand for premium transcon out of EWR," a point of view I never understood, since EWR supports PMCO's overseas gateway with hundreds of seats daily in BF, some of which cost nearly $10,000 round trip, not to mention J and F seats on about a dozen other airlines.

In the meantime, though, it is not at all accurate to write that CO/UA has "far more premium domestic class passengers versus JFK," at least depending on one's definition of "premium."

Sure, PMCO has zero presence at JFK, so, no matter what, they have more passengers at EWR than at JFK, premium or otherwise.

In the case of PMUA, though, they have their PS service to JFK and "ordinary" domestic FC for their transcon to EWR.

The daily inventory of premium seats on PMUA to JFK is far in excess of the daily premium inventory to EWR, even if you include the flights PMCO operates to LAX and SFO on the 752.

Here is the comparison:

PMUA's PS service to and from JFK to LAX/SFO (and back) operates a daily inventory of 288 F and 624 J.

PMCO's 752 transcon service (which is not guaranteed and subject to equipment swaps) operates a daily round trip inventory of 0 F and 192 J, a fraction of what UA PS offers.

The total premium inventory provided by UA PS ex-JFK is 912 seats, while the total provided by PMCO ex-EWR is 192, or about 21% of the premium seat inventory.

Within the UA/CO system, no, I'm not. For the same reasons that JFK has more premium traffic for AA and DL than their EWR operations.

It's a simple phenomenon of the hub-spoke system. UA/CO gets more paid premium traffic ex-EWR for NYC airports because of the connections to their "heavy" flights.

There are, of course (I'm sure) a good number of folks who connect from PS over to :-: flights, but it's kind of weird to fly from LAX / SFO to JFK to fly to EU, Asia, and South America when there are so many other options.

Not, at all, suggesting NYC // LAX + SFO o/d traffic doesn't support a ps type of product. I'm simply suggesting that UA should consider consolidating their premium product out of one airport (EWR) and leave LGA as the 'convenient' alternative to Manhattan for domestic hub flights. I'm my humble opinion the operations at JFK are an outlier to the greater system as a whole.

Of course I could be completely wrong with my analysis and I'd trust that the UA folks will crunch the numbers and make the appropriate decisions.

And, as an aside, I'd really like to see UA make a significant infrastructure investment in EWR with a true premium passenger experience (not this marketing gobbledygook gook they currently have), which could support their overseas operations and premium long-haul domestic traffic.

Are you flying out of the same JFK that I'm flying out of?

LH
LX
SQ
NH
OZ
SA
TK
CA
OS
SN
MS
LO
JJ

EWR isn't even close