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Old Nov 3, 2010, 10:06 am
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CLE gets EMB 170's
In late February 2011 CLE will get EMB 170 service to DCA,LGA and BOS.
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Old Nov 3, 2010, 10:07 am
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Originally Posted by MRF777
In late February 2011 CLE will get EMB 170 service to DCA,LGA and BOS.
Definitely good news for the Hublet. ^
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Old Nov 3, 2010, 10:31 am
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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.5.0.175 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Not necessarily good news if they replace mainline service to BOS and LGA. DCA has been all EMB-145 for some time.
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Old Nov 3, 2010, 10:38 am
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Originally Posted by smg77
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.5.0.175 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Not necessarily good news if they replace mainline service to BOS and LGA. DCA has been all EMB-145 for some time.
There's barely any mainline service to BOS and LGA, and all announcements of larger UA Express aircraft taking over CO routes have been cases where the UA Express aircraft were replacing COEX ERJs, not CO mainline 737s.

I suspect this is no different.
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Old Nov 3, 2010, 10:49 am
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There's a finite number of these aircraft. Wherever flights get "upgraded" to F-cabin RJs, theoretically some flight somewhere else gets downgraded.

Someone's good news is someone else's bad news.
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Old Nov 3, 2010, 10:57 am
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Originally Posted by channa
There's a finite number of these aircraft. Wherever flights get "upgraded" to F-cabin RJs, theoretically some flight somewhere else gets downgraded.

Someone's good news is someone else's bad news.
Not always. In some cases larger RJs have been taken off UA hub-CO hub routes to be replaced with larger mainline aircraft. IAH-DEN, LAX, ORD and IAD are all examples of this.
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Old Nov 3, 2010, 11:00 am
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Originally Posted by ssullivan
Not always. In some cases larger RJs have been taken off UA hub-CO hub routes to be replaced with larger mainline aircraft. IAH-DEN, LAX, ORD and IAD are all examples of this.

And then someone else loses a mainline aircraft to support those routes. It all balances out in the end.
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Old Nov 3, 2010, 11:07 am
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Originally Posted by channa
And then someone else loses a mainline aircraft to support those routes. It all balances out in the end.
Not if "duplicate" flights between the hubs are eliminated. (But then we theoretically pay higher fares, so I guess someone still loses out.)

(Also, fully acknowledge that elimination of duplicate hub-to-hub flying will result in a very small reduction of flying.)
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Old Nov 3, 2010, 11:10 am
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Originally Posted by channa
And then someone else loses a mainline aircraft to support those routes. It all balances out in the end.
Maybe, but not always. Better fleet utilization and elimination of duplicate flights between the two airlines, as well as the new mainline aircraft that are entering the fleet on the CO side offset some of that.

There's no way in this merger that every route is going to keep the exact same level of service it had before. Some routes need larger planes than they have now. Other routes are underserved. In the end, the goal should be more efficient utilization of the aircraft available across the board. That's not going to happen without some of these changes, and it's inaccurate to take the point of view that CO is raping UA's route map by moving some of those aircraft to underserved COEX markets.
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Old Nov 3, 2010, 11:17 am
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Originally Posted by ssullivan
Maybe, but not always. Better fleet utilization and elimination of duplicate flights between the two airlines, as well as the new mainline aircraft that are entering the fleet on the CO side offset some of that.
Of course. Though the new aircraft were coming regardless.


There's no way in this merger that every route is going to keep the exact same level of service it had before. Some routes need larger planes than they have now. Other routes are underserved. In the end, the goal should be more efficient utilization of the aircraft available across the board. That's not going to happen without some of these changes, and it's inaccurate to take the point of view that CO is raping UA's route map by moving some of those aircraft to underserved COEX markets.
I'm not disagreeing with the changes. I'm disagreeing that the changes are a net positive for customers. They may be if you're a beneficiary of an upgraded route. But it may not be if you're not. Even in cases where routes are consolidated into larger aircraft, that's one competitor gone at a minimum, so from a consumer standpoint, that's still a bad thing.
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Old Nov 3, 2010, 11:23 am
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I dont think the 170 replaces any mainline aircraft, they actually are adding seats in these (CLE) markets.
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Old Nov 3, 2010, 11:25 am
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Originally Posted by channa
Even in cases where routes are consolidated into larger aircraft, that's one competitor gone at a minimum, so from a consumer standpoint, that's still a bad thing.
Maybe. I'm not convinced that competition is always such a blessed and wonderful thing. As a whole, it has not exactly improved the service levels or profitability of the airline industry in the last 30 years.
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Old Nov 3, 2010, 11:36 am
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Originally Posted by ssullivan
Maybe. I'm not convinced that competition is always such a blessed and wonderful thing. As a whole, it has not exactly improved the service levels or profitability of the airline industry in the last 30 years.

It's certainly lowered fares and created loyalty programs that can be rewarding.
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Old Nov 3, 2010, 11:45 am
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Originally Posted by channa
It's certainly lowered fares and created loyalty programs that can be rewarding.
Yep, which is great… as long as its sustainable. That hasn't always been the case. An out of business airline doesn't really benefit anyone, and is not a positive contribution to the economy.
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Old Nov 3, 2010, 11:53 am
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In late February 2011 CLE will get EMB 170 service to DCA,LGA and BOS.
I really like this. I avoid LGA a lot b/c so many of the flights are the tinier RJs. This will work for me once or twice a year
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