CO FA: "New TSA directive - Lavatory use"

 
Old Jul 23, 10, 9:37 am
  #16  
 
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I almost never participate in the "me too" aspects of FlyerTalk, but I will here.

I agree with BocaSteve, and these "fake security" and "fake policy" things are also a pet peeve of mine.

I think its a way for those making up the policies to try to avoid possibly uncomfortable interactions: rather than having to turn a Y passenger away from the luxury that is the F lav, the thought is "if I say 'security' people will obey." This only serves to make people ignore real security and policy regulations, and wear people down.

Like BocaSteve I write in when some rogue employee throws the security flag in the air. Tends to happen to me on the EWR - DCA late flights when the f/a or pilot invokes the infamous "30 minute" rule, so they don't have to get up from the jumpseat during the flight.
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Old Jul 23, 10, 9:37 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post

"This aircraft is equipped with x lavatories which are located throughout the cabin. However, the lavatory in the forward cabin is reserved for our First Class customers only, and please respect this arrangement"
You got it! That's the script! I made no mention of whether they explain why the restriction of F pax to the F dunny. Just that it is called out.

I just recall that the explanation I was given for the restriction, when I first heard it after we regained some form of normalcy after the horror of 9/11, was as outlined in my post.

Should an explanation be given in the script? Not my call. The standard script does keep it simple but can lead to the perception of the seperation of the cabins based on all kinds of reasons, cabin integrity being one of them.

Dont get me wrong, when in F (and I am a lot) I find a constant stream of pax bumping past me on their mission to take a whizz, when the rule is not enforced, annoying. I also think that protecting overheads for F is important too.

I just dont think this rule is about cabin integrity, we would just like it to be.


OP87

Last edited by OnePass Since 87; Jul 23, 10 at 9:51 am Reason: syntax
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Old Jul 23, 10, 10:16 am
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
"This aircraft is equipped with x lavatories which are located throughout the cabin. However, the lavatory in the forward cabin is reserved for our First Class customers only, and please respect this arrangement"
Airlines/FA's/Pilots cannot prohibit someone from using the F LAV. Period. That is why they have the above announcement and only ask that people "respect" it. They can, however, restrict people from congregating near the cockpit as per FAA/TSA/FAR regulations.

Please post a link to the FAA/TSA/FAR that specifically prohibits someone from using the LAV in the section of the cabin that is different from their ticketed class of service. I won't hold my breath because none exists. Period.

Any FA or Pilot who announces that it is a FAA/TSA/FAR rule that Y PAX cannot use the F LAV, or tries to enforce as such, should not only be reported -- by name -- to the executive managemet of their airline, but also to the local media.

Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
Y folks should not be coming into C or F to use the lavs which are set aside for premium cabin passengers.
They are not "set aside" and exclusive/restricted use of the LAV in the front of the A/C is not part of the advertised or recieved benefits when flying in F.

Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
When I'm flying in F, I don't like Y people coming into my cabin
DYKWIA...

Last edited by DelrayChris; Jul 23, 10 at 10:47 am
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Old Jul 23, 10, 11:18 am
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by DelrayChris View Post
Please post a link to the FAA/TSA/FAR that specifically prohibits someone from using the LAV in the section of the cabin that is different from their ticketed class of service. I won't hold my breath because none exists. Period.
I found this, although it doesn't answer the question and refers to a Delta flight - "While the FAA doesn’t have a policy requiring international passengers to use the restrooms in their own seating class, a Delta spokesman clarified, saying the carrier was following 'TSA guidelines requiring passengers to use the lavatory in their class of service on flights arriving into the United States.'

The TSA does indeed have such a directive, according to an e-mail from Lauren Gaches, a spokeswoman for the agency. She declined to elaborate on the TSA policy, writing 'the security directive is sensitive security information. The directive was put in place in 2006 to address security concerns resulting from credible intelligence.'”


The link to the complete article is here - http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2009...ing-tsa-rules/
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Old Jul 23, 10, 11:32 am
  #20  
 
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On a recent UA flight I took (on an A320), there was no announcement about lav integrity- and in fact, on my way to the rear lav the FA told me to turn around and use the front one because she was about to pull out her cart for drink service.
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Old Jul 23, 10, 11:57 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Brasila View Post
This is a standard FA announcement on all UA flights and has been going on for several years and I , like many other passengers, see it as a security issue. ...:
Enjoy your life of paranoia
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Old Jul 23, 10, 12:12 pm
  #22  
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Originally Posted by DelrayChris View Post
Airlines/FA's/Pilots cannot prohibit someone from using the F LAV. Period. That is why they have the above announcement and only ask that people "respect" it. They can, however, restrict people from congregating near the cockpit as per FAA/TSA/FAR regulations.

Please post a link to the FAA/TSA/FAR that specifically prohibits someone from using the LAV in the section of the cabin that is different from their ticketed class of service. I won't hold my breath because none exists. Period.
There is a TSA directive about using the lav in your ticketed cabin on an international flight. Not sure how uniformly it's enforced, and like most TSA directives, it's based on useless make-work analysis because we know terrorists never buy tickets in first or business

Any FA or Pilot who announces that it is a FAA/TSA/FAR rule that Y PAX cannot use the F LAV, or tries to enforce as such, should not only be reported -- by name -- to the executive managemet of their airline, but also to the local media.
On an international flight, not. On a domestic flight, I think you're going overboard. No one will really care. What's important is the crew member not making up regulations that don't exist and sticking to the announcement script printed in their manual. Alaska and NW (before the merger) both had the 'security BS' note as part of their standard announcement script.

They are not "set aside" and exclusive/restricted use of the LAV in the front of the A/C is not part of the advertised or recieved benefits when flying in F.
I beg to differ - it's certainly enforced on BF flights and I dare you to sneak into the J or F cabin on a SQ, AF or LH flight when you're flying Y - the pretty little SQ girl with slide you back to Y on your rear.

DYKWIA...
Sorry if you feel annoyed, but when I'm sitting in F, I enjoy the exclusivity of the F cabin. The overheads should be exclusive to F, the lavs should be exclusive to F and the food as well. If the aisle is temporarily blocked in Y, I wouldn't object to allowing Y customers to line up behind the divider curtain and be brought forward one at a time, but not during F meal service and F customers would always have priority access no matter how many Y people are standing and waiting.

If I can respect the integrity of the F cabin when I'm sitting in Y, I think others should as well. When I'm a guest on another airline, I don't force my way into their Elite lines or demand benefits I'm not entitled to - same should apply here at CO.

Y people can get fairly prissy when presented with the difference in service - many of us have heard sarcastic remarks during boarding while we're getting pre-departure drinks, and I've experienced Y customers running into F to take pictures of our lunch because they were not served food, and I've had Y customers lined up in the F cabin to use the lav while we were eating breakfast and making snarky comments.

I see no problem with keeping the onboard service product exclusive to each cabin.
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Old Jul 23, 10, 12:23 pm
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
Y people can get fairly prissy when presented with the difference in service.
That's plain dumb of them. There is a reason an F ticket costs more than other tickets.

Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
I see no problem with keeping the onboard service product exclusive to each cabin.
I agree with you in this regard towards F (i.e., bin space, meals, service, seats, et al.). Aside from use during meal service, a LAV is a LAV and should remain available for all, as long as there is no congregating.
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Old Jul 23, 10, 12:24 pm
  #24  
 
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Exlusivity of F??? Really??? You must love being 30,000 in the air--on the ground, you have to be around all those non-exclusive people.

You must be confusing F with my membership in MENSA...


How I love that great fabric curtain, cloistering us in F off from the hoi polloi in Y...
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Old Jul 23, 10, 12:26 pm
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Originally Posted by DelrayChris View Post
That's plain dumb of them. There is a reason an F ticket costs more than other tickets.


I agree with you in this regard towards F (i.e., bin space, meals, service, seats, et al.). Aside from use during meal service, a LAV is a LAV and should remain available for all, as long as there is no congregating.

I'm sitting in 1 F, so all you Y commoners please refrain from making BM's in F.
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Old Jul 23, 10, 12:32 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
Enjoy your life of paranoia
UA does have the following with regards to toilet use:

1) You ARE required to to follow crew directions, this is listed on your saftey information card (Maybe they know something you don't about this flight ie: maybe they are allowing someone to use the "F" class for medical reason. .Maybe there are FAMS onboard? )
2) The TSA does require that passengers use the toilets, in their assigned cabin on Intl' Flight.
3) On flights within USA, it is a United policy that passengers must remain in their TICKETED cabin.
4) When you are sitting in First, you do not expect to wait for a coach passenger to use the "F" class toilet.
5) Common sense with the "F" class goes a long way.
6) At no time should anyone be standing near the cockpit door.
7) The TSA and United policy are in writing, in your Hemisphere magazine,towards the back with the BOB items.
8) It is part of having a secure flight.

These are simple rules to follow. We have all seen the lazy business person, because they don't want to walk to the back, try to cross the curtain. I have also seen Grandma, that can not walk, be forced back to coach. It is best that crew inforce this policy consistantly, which means everyone is treated equal, but with some common sense. When you get your upgrade, on the next flight, you will get to hear that beautiful First class flush.
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Old Jul 23, 10, 12:41 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by mulieri View Post
Exlusivity of F??? Really??? You must love being 30,000 in the air--on the ground, you have to be around all those non-exclusive people.

You must be confusing F with my membership in MENSA...


How I love that great fabric curtain, cloistering us in F off from the hoi polloi in Y...
So what's your point - the F seats should be an open free-for-all? Whoever boards first should get them? Or F customers should receive the same service as Y?

Before you trot out the Trostky rhetoric, it might be worth repeating that the PEOPLE in F are not better than the people in Y, but the SERVICE and product in F are suppose to be better because the people in F paid more for those seats.

I'd say that if you don't like it, go fly WN - but even WN now offers special services to their full fare customers. There are simply some places and situations where the service or product provided to one group of people is different what is provided to others. It has noting to do with your family lineage or connections, but what you paid for your transportation. For example, if you travel on Cunard Lines, you will find that the class or cabin that you book also restricts where you can eat and other shipboard features.

If you don't think that arrangement is fair, you can select another cruise line. Likewise, if you think giving customers "Elite" privileges (special lines, pre-boarding, free bags, etc) and F customers better service is somehow unfair, you can choose to fly Spirit or jetBlue. Or you can choose to pay for F or earn Elite status and enjoy these benefits as well.
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Old Jul 23, 10, 12:48 pm
  #28  
 
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If I work ISM/FSC posistions, I usually say good morning/afternoon/evening. its a pleasure to work with some of the most outstanding newark/houston/cleveland based f/a's today. We have reached an altitude where it is safe to use approved portable electronics, as a reminder cell phones and two-pagers are not permitted for use. We like to take a moment and extend a special welcome to our onepass members who will be earning valuable milelage towars there onepass account on our flight today. If you are not a member of the onepass program, you may enroll online at continental.com, also available is continental.com check-in where you may check in up to 24 hours prior to your next flight, save time at the airport by checking in online at home, and print your boarding pass. This 757 is equipped with 4 lavatories they are located throughout the aircraft, the lavatory in the most forward part of the aircraft is exclusively reserved for BusinessElite/First Class customers only, etc etc etc.
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Old Jul 23, 10, 12:52 pm
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Boeing747Cowboy View Post
These are simple rules to follow. We have all seen the lazy business person, because they don't want to walk to the back, try to cross the curtain. I have also seen Grandma, that can not walk, be forced back to coach. It is best that crew inforce this policy consistantly, which means everyone is treated equal, but with some common sense. When you get your upgrade, on the next flight, you will get to hear that beautiful First class flush.
Yes, I'm fully aware of UA's psycho-paranoia security culture. I've enjoyed reading this week about the latest passenger who was dragged off a UA flight because they asked the FA if food would be onboard and the ditz thought they said "if police would be onboard" and had a hissy fit and wanted them arrested. This culture is one of the first things I hope CO beats out these people if the merger closes.

We need to drop the security paranoia, as it's useless and distracts attention from real, actually important security issues - like un-screened cargo, un-screened through-the-fence staff and other holes that haven't been plugged in 10 years because they're not as 'theatrical' as radioactive scanners or dragging a big fence across the aisle to close off the flight deck when the pilots want to pee.

The people who are really that scared about another 9/11 need to stay home and the employees who wake up everyday worrying about it need to find new jobs. It's worth repeating that terrorists can buy F tickets too - so the rule as a protection mechanism, is useless.
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Old Jul 23, 10, 12:55 pm
  #30  
 
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TRUE!

Pee in your class, the coach toilet is smaller be careful.
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