Smisek says he'll cancel flights before paying fines
Mar 9, 2010, 1:40 pm
#46
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It's also not accurate to say imply that it's always an ATC issue for a take-off delay. A lot of the issues that were of concern were basic things like landing and not having a gate, or wanting to return but not being able to get a gate or stairs to get folks off the plane. And of course in the infamous MN incident where pax were forced to remain on the plane overnight.
That's the problem, the airlines are at the mercy of ATC's constantly changing orders. One minute it's 3 hours, the next it's 'let's go now'.
The main problem with these regs is that you can't second guess weather, ATC or other unforeseen circumstances, therefore any law that tries to address these problems is going to fail miserably and unfairly penalize wrong parties.
The airlines are doing the best they can, and while they sometimes make mistakes, overall they do what's best for the PAX because, after all, that's what makes them money.
And frankly, I'm disappointed in Smisek's comments. He's reacting arrogantly to the regulations which were likely caused by his very own company. Not only that, CO's culture is already somewhat arrogant as it is, and as a CEO, he sets the tone for the organization. The last thing the pax need is more arrogance from front line CO staff who hear this cr@p and wrongly think that CO is infallible.
Mar 9, 2010, 1:48 pm
#47
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Oh, and it was hardly CO that caused this. Looking back at the DoT data suggests that B6, DL and UA were much more culpable in terms of frequencies and length of delays.
Mar 9, 2010, 1:49 pm
#48
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the airlines are quick to blame anyone but themselves for this new legislation. If the airlines behaved reasonably in bad situations (providing food, access to clean water and lavs) then it wouldn't be an issue. But you have nonsense like the Rochester ERJ nonsense where passengers were imprisoned on an ERJ for 12 hours.
There was no reasonable response from the airlines (the ground handler, the operator and CO).
There is going to have to be a regulatory response to the airlines' insolence wrt regional carriers too. The major is going to have to be additionally liable for accidents, safety failures and the actions of any flight that operates under their exclusive code.
Airlines b!tch and whine about potential slot restrictions at the NY airports, but if CO hadn't overloaded EWR with more and more ERJ/deathprop departures, they would be able to run a more reliable schedule.
There was no reasonable response from the airlines (the ground handler, the operator and CO).
There is going to have to be a regulatory response to the airlines' insolence wrt regional carriers too. The major is going to have to be additionally liable for accidents, safety failures and the actions of any flight that operates under their exclusive code.
Airlines b!tch and whine about potential slot restrictions at the NY airports, but if CO hadn't overloaded EWR with more and more ERJ/deathprop departures, they would be able to run a more reliable schedule.
Mar 9, 2010, 1:58 pm
#50
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This is all about reacting properly. I think what is being said is reasonable, if they think a delay is going to put them at risk they will cancel instead of taking the risk. the risk vs reward balance has shifted with this legislation. They won't take the risk, so the customers will not get the reward (of getting to their destination).
Kevin
Mar 9, 2010, 2:01 pm
#51
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So easy to say. You make it sound so simple, but to provide the services you suggest would require an amazing amount of logistics as well as money, and yes, money is certainly a factor.
Mar 9, 2010, 2:06 pm
#52
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Do you think it is reasonable to change laws to this extent based on events that are so unlikely to actually affect passengers? If the delay issues were widespread - anywhere close to 1% - I might agree that action needs to be taken. When the numbers are so much less than that it seems ludicrous to me that such drastic changes be required.
Oh, and it was hardly CO that caused this. Looking back at the DoT data suggests that B6, DL and UA were much more culpable in terms of frequencies and length of delays.
We're not exactly talking about a few dozen flights sitting on the tarmac for 4 hours on an ATC delay.
It was definitely CO's incident in Minnesota was the straw that broke the camel's back. Had we been going with just a handful of ATC tarmac delays every month without CO's incident, then this legislation would probably not be in existence.
Don't kid yourself. This law is a direct result of CO's behavior.
Mar 9, 2010, 2:13 pm
#53
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So easy to say. You make it sound so simple, but to provide the services you suggest would require an amazing amount of logistics as well as money, and yes, money is certainly a factor.
Mar 9, 2010, 2:17 pm
#54
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I'm not kidding myself because I'm willing to acknowledge that of the 900 delays of > 3 hours last year the vast majority were actually other airlines. One incident didn't cause this. If it did the rule would have been put in place a few years ago after the Valentines Day massacre at B6. The aggregate data forced this issue.
What is accommodating about telling all passengers that their flights are canceled and that they won't be making their desired trip for several days?
Yup, you gotta plan for it. Planes don't sit on the tarmac for 3 hours under normal circumstances, you don't get lineups like that instantly. If there's something that big coming through they'd better prepare for it. A nice stick will help airlines to be more accommodating.
Mar 9, 2010, 2:20 pm
#55
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I'm not kidding myself because I'm willing to acknowledge that of the 900 delays of > 3 hours last year the vast majority were actually other airlines. One incident didn't cause this. If it did the rule would have been put in place a few years ago after the Valentines Day massacre at B6. The aggregate data forced this issue.
It was a significantly different political environment during the B6 incident.
While the data supported the legislation, the CO MN incident brought it to the forefront and made it happen. Someone didn't exactly wake up and start counting flights. Someone saw how CO behaved and said enough is enough.
Mar 9, 2010, 2:24 pm
#56
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This is not directed at the passengers.
Mar 9, 2010, 2:26 pm
#57
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It was a significantly different political environment during the B6 incident.
While the data supported the legislation, the CO MN incident brought it to the forefront and made it happen. Someone didn't exactly wake up and start counting flights. Someone saw how CO behaved and said enough is enough.
While the data supported the legislation, the CO MN incident brought it to the forefront and made it happen. Someone didn't exactly wake up and start counting flights. Someone saw how CO behaved and said enough is enough.
Mar 9, 2010, 2:27 pm
#58
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Valentines Day massacre at B6. The aggregate data forced this issue.
JetBlue will provide customers experiencing an Onboard Ground Delay with 36 channels of DIRECTV®*, food and drink, access to clean restrooms and, as necessary, medical treatment. For customers who experience an Onboard Ground Delay for more than 5 hours, JetBlue will take necessary action so that customers may deplane.
Arrivals:
Customers who experience an Onboard Ground Delay on Arrival for 1-1:59 hours after scheduled arrival time are entitled to a $50 Credit good for future travel on JetBlue.
Customers who experience an Onboard Ground Delay on Arrival for 2 or more hours after scheduled arrival time are entitled to a Credit good for future travel on JetBlue in the amount paid by the customer for the roundtrip (or the oneway trip, doubled) less taxes and fees.
Departures:
Customers who experience an Onboard Ground Delay on Departure for 3-3:59 hours after scheduled departure time are entitled to a $50 Credit good for future travel on JetBlue.
Customers who experience an Onboard Ground Delay on Departure for 4-4:59 hours after scheduled departure time are entitled to a Credit good for future travel on JetBlue in the amount paid by the customer for the oneway trip less taxes and fees (or $50, whichever is greater).
Customers who experience an Onboard Ground Delay on Departure for 5 or more hours after scheduled departure time are entitled to a Credit good for future travel on JetBlue in the amount paid by the customer for the roundtrip (or the oneway trip, doubled) less taxes and fees.
Arrivals:
Customers who experience an Onboard Ground Delay on Arrival for 1-1:59 hours after scheduled arrival time are entitled to a $50 Credit good for future travel on JetBlue.
Customers who experience an Onboard Ground Delay on Arrival for 2 or more hours after scheduled arrival time are entitled to a Credit good for future travel on JetBlue in the amount paid by the customer for the roundtrip (or the oneway trip, doubled) less taxes and fees.
Departures:
Customers who experience an Onboard Ground Delay on Departure for 3-3:59 hours after scheduled departure time are entitled to a $50 Credit good for future travel on JetBlue.
Customers who experience an Onboard Ground Delay on Departure for 4-4:59 hours after scheduled departure time are entitled to a Credit good for future travel on JetBlue in the amount paid by the customer for the oneway trip less taxes and fees (or $50, whichever is greater).
Customers who experience an Onboard Ground Delay on Departure for 5 or more hours after scheduled departure time are entitled to a Credit good for future travel on JetBlue in the amount paid by the customer for the roundtrip (or the oneway trip, doubled) less taxes and fees.
Last edited by entropy; Mar 9, 2010 at 2:29 pm Reason: spelling
Mar 9, 2010, 2:27 pm
#59
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Mar 9, 2010, 2:42 pm
#60
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Personally I would rather be deplaned and have the flight cancelled after sitting on the tarmac for 2.5 hours rather then risk a greater then 3 hour delay. After 4 or 5 hours I would most likely start to have chest pains, feel imprisoned, etc.
Scott
Scott