Buy-Up Offer with 25 People Standing By?

 
Old Jan 22, 2010, 3:48 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by RustingInSeattle
This week I was traveling with 3 family members from Fort Myers to Seattle (via IAH) on a cheap L fare ($89 or so). I was upgraded 5 days out as platinum. I had split one out from the other 2 for companion upgrade.

When I checked the PDA site prior to checking in, there were 12 people in first checked in (nearly all upgraded) and there were 5 or 6 people on the upgrade standby list. However, all 3 of my family members were added $69 first class upgrades on the RSW-IAH segment. At the airport, I got a companion upgrade for my family member. First was full and there were still 5 or 6 on the upgrade standby list.

I have no idea how $69 could be the buy-up offer for the RSW-IAH segment on a cheapo L ($89) RSW-IAH-SEA fare. But definitely many elites didn't get upgraded on that flight.
If this is happening, we need to gather evidence - photos of check-in kiosk screens, screenshots of the PDA site and such - then we have a case we can take to CO and say 'what gives?'

There is no way $69 is a buy-up fare unless, as others have alluded, CO is dropping F fares to almost L pricing an hour or so before departure, which is firstly ridiculous to do, and secondly if they're doing it, the offers should go to Elites.

CO has been pretty clear that segment-fee upgrades do not happen when elites are waiting - if we have clear and compelling evidence to the contrary, we need to gather and submit it. Either their system is broken and needs to be fixed like yesterday, or there is something else going on.

Either way, we need to get to the bottom of it.
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Old Jan 22, 2010, 4:25 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
IfThere is no way $69 is a buy-up fare unless, as others have alluded, CO is dropping F fares to almost L pricing an hour or so before departure, which is firstly ridiculous to do, and secondly if they're doing it, the offers should go to Elites.
The $69 buy-up amount is the exact same amount I quoted in an earlier post - overhearing an unsophistocated older woman mention to her friend on boarding. And this flight had a good sized wait list. My upgrade on that flight was about T2 and at that point the flight was full minus two seats - and an upgrade list the next day.
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Old Jan 22, 2010, 5:01 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Fishbait
Thanks, I was confused. I thought that only M was capacity-controlled - my bad. So, to do the upgrade online, where should I look? At T-26, there was a link on the flight to upgrade, but for $99. Where would I see the button for the B-up (or Y-up or M-up for that matter)?
When you pull up the reservation there will be a link to Upgrade the flight. IIRC it's near the top of the reservation, along with "Export to Outlook" etc., although the layout may have changed. It shouldn't be difficult to find. If the appropriate inventory is available, then there will be no charge to upgrade. If the appropriate inventory is not available, it seems CO will let you buy up to the appropriate inventory. This could be a full Y fare (which allows last-seat upgrade availability), or a "D" fare (which is often less expensive than full Y).
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Old Jan 22, 2010, 8:08 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by cova
The $69 buy-up amount is the exact same amount I quoted in an earlier post - overhearing an unsophistocated older woman mention to her friend on boarding. And this flight had a good sized wait list. My upgrade on that flight was about T2 and at that point the flight was full minus two seats - and an upgrade list the next day.
I'd like to give CO the benefit of the doubt, but I want to get to the bottom of this too. I never see these offers, but it would be great if folks could start taking screenshots and camera photos so we have some evidence to present.
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Old Jan 22, 2010, 9:38 pm
  #35  
 
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Well here's my story.

On CO 90 today, LAX-EWR. F is booked full, and I'm #5 on the upgrade list. I'm Plat on a M fare.

Sitting in the P-Club at 35 minutes out, I check the upgrade list, and while I'm still #5, I notice that F is now showing booked 18/20.

So I check myself in again online, and low and behold, I'm offered a $70.74 "Difference in Fare, Upgrade Fee".

Now, while that may be the difference between my M fare and a F fare, it still stinks. I essentially stole the upgrade from who ever was #2 on the list, because I knew how to game the system.

I don't know what the solution is, but selling out your best customers for $70.74 certainly isn't it.

David
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Old Jan 22, 2010, 10:52 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by dgilman
I'm Plat on a M fare.

Sitting in the P-Club at 35 minutes out, I check the upgrade list, and while I'm still #5, I notice that F is now showing booked 18/20.

So I check myself in again online, and low and behold, I'm offered a $70.74 "Difference in Fare, Upgrade Fee".

Now, while that may be the difference between my M fare and a F fare, it still stinks.
Well that definitely sounds fishy. I can't imagine how $70.74 is the difference between an M fare on this route and any other fare that would allow unrestricted access to first class seat. Now, if when the flight went to 18/20 revenue management made one or both of those unsold seats available in ZF inventory (or is it ZE?, I can never remember) then you technically should have been able to confirm your upgrade on the spot for free. If it wasn't made available in ZE/ZF then you probably would have had to be buying up to either a full Y fare or possibly a D fare. The difference from M to Y/D is about $450/$678 one-way.

The evidence does seem to be piling up that CO is selling out its elites, and yet CO management has remained silent.
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Old Jan 24, 2010, 7:01 pm
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OK, don't know if this helps any, but saw another strange anomaly last night. Mr Fish is traveling on this itinerary this week:

1/26 EWR-IAH H CLASS (737)
1/26 IAH-DFW Q CLASS (RJ145 - SINGLE CLASS)
1/29 DFW-IAH Q CLASS (735)
1/29 IAH-EWR H CLASS (753)

So, I looked at the res last night to see if he was in M, B, or Y (for upgrades), which he wasn't. Clicked on the top of screen for "Upgrade Reservation". Under the "Buy Up to First" section, it offered $119 for outbound (1 leg upgradeable), and $131 for return (2 legs upgradeable), or $172 for BOTH outbound and return (3 legs total). Is this because of the difference between a OW vs RT in M/B/Y? BTW, the EWR-IAH and IAH-EWR flights were showing "waitlist only" for mileage upgrades - don't M and B upgrades come out of the same bucket as mileage upgrades? If so, then the difference would have to be the diff in OW vs RT in Y, right? $172 RT EWR-DFW seems like a small price to pay from H/Q/Q/H to Y. I am getting more confused by the minute.....

Edited to add: He was EUA'd for the outbound flight. Now it's showing the return available for $141 upgrade for the two flights, up $10 from yesterday (still waitlist only for mileage upgrade IAH-EWR).. Go figure..
Robin
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Old Jan 24, 2010, 8:53 pm
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Fishbait
...don't M and B upgrades come out of the same bucket as mileage upgrades?...
No. Mileage upgrades come from "R" inventory, and M/Bs come from "ZN" or something like that.

ETA: It is ZN, which is this bucket:

Originally Posted by Continental FAQ
ZN - First/BusinessFirst non-Elite capacity controlled EasyPass reward (tracks similar to Z availability to book)
You normally see much better buy-up versus miles-up availability.

Last edited by Bonehead; Jan 24, 2010 at 8:58 pm
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 6:25 am
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by dgilman
Well here's my story.

On CO 90 today, LAX-EWR. F is booked full, and I'm #5 on the upgrade list. I'm Plat on a M fare.

Sitting in the P-Club at 35 minutes out, I check the upgrade list, and while I'm still #5, I notice that F is now showing booked 18/20.

So I check myself in again online, and low and behold, I'm offered a $70.74 "Difference in Fare, Upgrade Fee".

Now, while that may be the difference between my M fare and a F fare, it still stinks. I essentially stole the upgrade from who ever was #2 on the list, because I knew how to game the system.

I don't know what the solution is, but selling out your best customers for $70.74 certainly isn't it.
Ya know, I think CO is onto something @:-)@:-)

Let's see, of the 20 seats available in first class; let's pretend that 15 of those seats were pre-upgraded either through the purchase of upgradeable fares or elite upgrades at the window.

That leaves 5 seats for a BF upgrade. Now, if there are let's just say 15-20++ people on the upgrade list on a popular route (just making this up), no matter how you slice it, there are going to be upset (elite) people. 15 of these 20+ will be sitting in Y, there just aren't enough seats.

So, quite possibly, CO is saying... "Well, since we are going to upset people anyway, why NOT grab some extra revenue" -- so they offer the kiosk upgrade/buy-up upgrade. Chances are, only 2-3 people maximum will take an offer like this. (many want free upgrades, but aren't interested in paying and/or don't see the value when they have to fork over $$) That leaves another 1-2 elites upgraded BF; and basically an equivalent number of unhappy peeps.

BUT, CO has scored some extra revenue for this flight. Multiply that extra $$$$$ by thousands of flights, and even if on average, they only pick up an extra $80-$200 per flight; that could still be some nice change.

It seems a bit devious, but makes a lot of sense to me.

I guess if you are going to pi$$ off people anyway, why NOT at least make some extra $$$ while doing it.....
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 7:07 am
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Steve GadFly
Currently, if someone only flies occasionally but buys all B/Y, there's no incentive for them to get higher than silver because they will always be booked into F ahead of platinums.

Thoughts? Ideas?
The mileage bonus for the higher elites is nice, too.

Originally Posted by CO_Nonrev_elite
I've said this before. The only thing that elites that truthfully have a right to complain about with this is that the elites are generally not being offered the buy ups, yet the non elite is. It should be that everyone is offered the buy up:

"You can confirm first class for this flight for x dollars, or you may remain on the standby list for complimentary upgrade.

Instead, at least on my limited exposure to the buyups, non elite travelers I have been with have been offered it while myself as a platinum was not offered it.

It gives the impression that they value the buy up money coming from the non elite than the buy up money from the elite.
Same (disappointing) experience here.

Anyone know if UA does the buy-up game, too? If not, they might be getting the bulk of my flights (especially since they have E+). Even though I'm hub-based, most of my "normal routes" require EWR/CLE connections, except GRU. So even though I'm IAH based, I might have to re-think my strategies.
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 7:32 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by IAHtraveler
Anyone know if UA does the buy-up game, too? If not, they might be getting the bulk of my flights (especially since they have E+). Even though I'm hub-based, most of my "normal routes" require EWR/CLE connections, except GRU. So even though I'm IAH based, I might have to re-think my strategies.

UA does buy-ups too, but only when all upgrade requests have been accommodated.

I've posted this before, but while UA's website may not be as flashy, UA's technology seems to be more solid. When they do stuff, it usually works. If there's a waitlist going, they're not selling upgrades. It's simple.

Frankly, I'm not sure why people are so upset about this on CO. CO has been plagued with these sorts of upgrade-related issues for years -- whether it be checkin loopholes upgrading Silvers before Platinums, EUA glitches for periods at a time when it just wasn't running, or B/M/Y-purchasers who cannot confirm their upgrade at time of booking and are unable to waitlist, so the person who catches the space open up and calls/goes online gets it, even though he may not be the highest status, or the first one to have bought one on the flight. And now we have this.

There's always something, and it really doesn't bother me anymore. I really don't care if some non-Elite gets an upgrade ahead of me for $69. Last year it would have been a Silver who checked in at the right time. Or 3 months ago, it was the guy who was able to sweet-talk the phone agent to manually do it because EUA wasn't working. The net effect is the same. Someone's always able to jump the queue on CO. It's been like this for years.
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 7:41 am
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by Steve GadFly
Currently, if someone only flies occasionally but buys all B/Y, there's no incentive for them to get higher than silver because they will always be booked into F ahead of platinums.

Thoughts? Ideas?

Originally Posted by IAHtraveler
The mileage bonus for the higher elites is nice, too.
Ok....I should have said there's no "upgrade-related" incentive to get to higher levels.
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 7:51 am
  #43  
 
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I think it's pretty clear by now that we have established that there are some processes in place that allow non-elites to get benefits that were marketed to elites, and lower elites have regularly the ability to jump over higher elites. We have established that there are a bunch of loopholes that have not been patched (some of them in place for years). Then, there are the tales of shenanigans.

In the meantime, CO is generating extra revenue from buy-ups and gives itself more "flexibility".

Unlike other posters here, I don't give CO the favor of the doubt at all. If I thought for one moment that they had any intention of fixing a broken system or process, I believe they would have the resources to do so. The fact that nothing has been done to address the persistent issues we all see and report here makes it very clear what CO's stance on this issue is.

Things are EXACTLY how they want them. The process works as designed and by its sheer complexity, it is nearly impossible to know for regular and frequent flyers alike, whether their system is working as designed, or if it malfunctioned. The beauty is that CO gets to trot out both sides of the story.

If a pax gets upgraded, the system "worked as it should". If squirrely situations arise, then the system isn't working.

COInsiders total silence on this issue is deafening and the most obvious sign that the upgrade process works exactly as CO wants it to.

Frequent flyers are not retarded though. If they keep up the current system, they will lose tons of frequent flyers who will then only fly them if their ticket is far cheaper than the competition. That will put pressure on yields long term.

Good luck with that business strategy.
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 7:54 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by channa
UA does buy-ups too, but only when all upgrade requests have been accommodated.

Things are changing at UA, although as far as I know it has not been officially acknowledged.

There has been all sorts of anectodal evidence of this and I witnessed it first hand last month. As a 1K attempting to use a SWU, I was bypassed by several pax who took advantage of a buy-up offer. Agents were very clear that this is happening.
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Old Jan 25, 2010, 8:00 am
  #45  
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New to CO and wondering if this is ow their system works.

I'm platinum flying ORD-IAH-SJU on Friday. ORD-IAH did not clear and IAH-SJU did. I am the only person in FC to SJU.

On Expertflyer ORD-IAH has F9 on almost all flights 01/29. Mine at 7:25pm shows F9. I can understand keeping some seats or missing due to fare class but to not seem to give any or maybe just 1 seems against the concept of what the benefit brings to the table.

Is this the game CO plays with the upgrades?
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