Unemployed - Tales from the Front
 

hoping others will post their ideas and stories here too! we might as well try to enjoy this predicament and I wanted to share the laugh of the day with you! Well, I have to laugh. By the way, Walgreen's has Kellogg's on sale 2/$5 or even $1.99/box, beans 2 cans for $1.00, I just stocked up.

I think that the worst part of being unemployed, besides the uncertainty and wondering if one will EVER work again, is dealing with what seem to be reasonable rules to the employed but to those of us laid off, scream "idiocracy". First, there was the recruiter last week. I do not feel that it is unreasonable to request a Word copy of my resume after viewing on Monster.com, but I was in the unfortunate state of not having any electricity at that time. (Note to others: make sure you have a printed copy of your res, and one on a floppy, or stored in a yahoo or hotmail mailbox just in case.) Of course I did not have this. I had to email back (from unemployment office where you can do this free) and explain that I could not get at it since my electricity was off and the only place I had a copy was on my hard drive. For simplicity going forward, let's call this response #1.

He writes back, "well then can you fax me a copy?" I write back, <response #1>

He writes back, "well how about putting it on a disk and taking it to another computer?" <response #1>

I then suggested that I could email another recruiter whom I had recently emailed my res to (of course no copy is in my outbox due to yahoo's space limitations) and forward on to him ... I did this. Of course, he then wanted the resume tweaked to fit his job description <response #1 modified>

arrghh after a few days of trying, I found that the library has Word, but on the downstairs floor, and you can't email from there, upstairs you can email but not do word ... after several trips up and down finally managed to do this.

Yesterday he emails wanting a phone conversation. I write back, "My phone has been disconnected, I can't make any calls." This is response #2 ... anyway he and I had ALREADY spoken last week before my phone was disconnected. Oh did I mention that this is a 3 month temporary job that pays by the hour! And not a lot by the hour, either.

this goes back and forth for a few more emails. Today I received email that they want to set up a phone interview for this job <response #2> and chat with me first <response #2> ...

Meanwhile, I decide to try to solve my problems which all stem from not having received any unemployment checks for the past three weeks. They don't let you use phones there but they do have pay phones. Of course, I didn't have enough change yesterday - you have to first put in 50 cents even though it is just a local call, the money will be returned and you then pay 25 cents for first three minutes, but need the 50 cents to get started. I came back today with enough money. several calls later, finally went up to the desk and they let me use THEIR phone to call the state unemployment office where I could check on status of a claim.

Guess what? After finally getting a human voice on the phone and getting to explain my problem, that I have not received the June 2 check nor any checks subsequent, the woman told me: "You need to call back from the 917 number on record". I said, "I can't, that's a cellphone, the service was shut off because I couldn't pay the bill because I never got the check that I am calling to ask you about now!"

She said "Can you go to someone's house that has a 917 number and call from there?"

I said "NO! there is no such thing! all 917 numbers are for cellphones and anyway I don't know anyone."

She then said, "Well you are not even supposed to use a cellphone to register for benefits" and I asked, "Well what do you recommend, I don't have a home phone, I can't use the office phone SINCE I AM UNEMPLOYED ..."

Makes you want to scream, but really, I just have to stand back and kind of laugh, it is kind of funny, and anyway, adversity is supposed to be good for you!!!!

Two good things did happen though just to balance it out - I got an early distribution of retirement funds in the mail today and my bank, with which I have had altercations with in the past, was decent enough to let me deposit as cash so it is available right away. And, even though I moved into this house almost 2 years ago, I never cashed in the coupons I got for free wine, pizza, flowers and so on so now am living high on the hog! And of course there's that sale at Walgreen's, I hit two stores, too bad they don't have AAmerican Airlines coupons on the boxes though.

OK, anyone else have a story to share???



[This message has been edited by CozumelJen (edited 06-18-2002).]

Hi Jen,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. The 917 story sounds like a typical government red tape run around.

If you deposited your retirement check into a regular account, brace yourself for a nasty bill from the IRS come next April. You'll have to pay taxes on the amount, plus a penalty (10%?). You can avoid that by re-depositing it into a qualified plan within (I think) 60 days, including the amount that your old employer probably withheld. But it sounds like cash flow is an issue for you. Unemployment benefits, if you ever get those worked out, are also taxable. You usually have an option to have taxes withheld or not - if you don't, again, just be prepared come April.

Good luck, and hang in there.

swag

I'm looking now myself, since about a month ago. I've been out since last summer, but was fortunate enough to have enough in the bank to take some much needed time off.

Probably the biggest surprise / disappointment / frustration that I found the last time I was looking, back in '97, was not hearing back from potential empolyers. I'm not talking about resumes that you sent in blindly. I'm talking about after an in-person interview, when you're told you'll hear something within some time frame; that passes and nothing. Then my calls to the company go mostly unreturned. I didn't understand - and still don't - why they can't give you a simple call or even a letter letting you know where you stand, or don't. That was at a time when jobs were plentiful. I can't imagine that it's gotten any better in this economy.

Again, good luck.

a note on unemployment taxation:

It is taxable at the Federal Level but at the state level it all depends on the state you are in. So make sure that you check your state and local tax codes before including in your income when filing

Thanks! For me the taxes are not an issue as I doubt I'll be redepositing since I feel like I will never have a job so no way to redeposit, and it is a sad fact that I had no choice, taxes or not, I had to do this to survive though I HATE to do this. This is the price I pay for independence.

Anyway, swag, I hear you about people not getting back to you. What is up with that? It is so awful. I have one good recruiter who was contacted by a large bank for positions and he said that he is calling them EVERY DAY asking for status on people he has sent them. He submitted my resume MONTHS ago. He said, why did they even bother asking him to round up people if they are not going to fill the jobs? He could understand if they decided later to delay the decision, or just got so many resumes they need more time to review them, but to not even respond to HIM ... I like his attitude! he said, someday the tables will turn and these same companies will be calling him begging for people. I can't wait! I had another company that I really thought liked me after the personal interview and said I would DEFINITELY be called back for the second interview. This was on Feb 4. 4 months is a long time to wait. I have emailed and called but no one will even have the courtesy to reply. Last Friday I even called the first guy that I had initially talked to and said, hey, you've probably filled the position but I am still interested in any consulting/contracting (he had originally put this out as a possibility). Of course, I am ignored ... but one day, as that recruiter says, the tables will turn! Hang in there everyone!

I can give an employer's perspective on the "waiting to hear" scenario...

... generally, I only interview on one day of the week and sometimes not even that frequently because of my travel schedule. All too often, I get my list of next week's interviews this week. In the meantime, I might come across the resumes of more qualified candidates I want to bring in to interview.

This happened recently...

I interviewed two candidates one day... one wasn't a good match for my division so I passed her back to HR with a suggestion of other divisions where she might go... the resume now had to go to THOSE hiring managers for review... I'm sure that HR, rather than tell a candidate "no thanks" would like to get another internal interview... so they string them along while waiting on the next hiring manager to take or pass.

The other candidate that day was someone I genuinely liked but didn't feel was as strong as an internal transfer candidate I was having a second interview with two days later. I felt confident that the internal person would accept our offer. Instead, she took a three-day weekend to consider it and by the time we called the second choice candidate, she was no longer interested in the position (felt she had been strung along too long).

I will tell you three things I value in a candidate that often don't come out until AFTER the interview:

1. the ability to follow up (which it sounds like you guys are doing great)... and to me, following up includes sending me a thank you note (your last chance to really sell me on why you belong with my group)

2. the ability to be persistent but not a pest (in other words, asking the recruiter "when should I follow up again" and then following their lead)

3. the ability to make a relatively quick decision if I do offer you a position and not come back swinging. (For example, if you told the recruiter you want $50k but would accept $40k, I know that usually - not matter what they TOLD you they would/wouldn't tell. If I offer you $45k, and you come back and insist you must have $50k PLUS some benefit not previously discussed, I'm gonna start reconsidering my decision.) It is very important when you work with a recruiting firm (which is my industry, btw) that you set parameters for what you will/won't take. If you aren't gonna take the $45k, don't waste your recruiters time or you won't find yourself getting sent out on interviews anymore.

TG, I hate to disagree with you but I do take a different approach. I ensure that HR or another rep contacts the candidate in some way shape or form even if the application is still being considered, delays that suddenly pop up, or that you are no longer interested. I have a list of candidates that I interview on my files at all times and follow up with HR to ensure that they are notified of their status. Now if it is still within the decision making period that I notified the candidate, then NO I don't send anything, but once that decision period has passed ,then they get notified. Have I ever slipped, yes of course, but as a rule they get notification.

IMHO, It is HR's job, but it is up to the hiring manager to see that they follow up with the candidate and the hiring manager can contact HR or the other designated rep by email. As for your scenarios, I don't blame you for reconsidering. I know I sure would if that happened to me, knock on wood, it hasn't. I would imagine that they needed you in this case more than you needed them so you could reconsider. I would reconsider as well, although it does come down to bargaining power and how bad do they need you and how bad do you need them and whether or not they are gamefully employed or not.

that is nice to hear, TrojanHorse! These banks here, I guess are so fat that they don't even reply to the recruiters much less some poor schmoe like me ... they could learn something from you. From my side, eventually I figure out that I am not going to get the job, but how much nicer it would be if they just called me back or emailed back to let me know. It is bad if they do not take initiative to contact me, but when I call/email asking for an answer and they still ignore me? After four months or more? I think that is bad. I have recruiters that act that way too.

Thanks both techgirl and TrojanHorse for your perspectives!

I'm not saying that we don't notify candidates. We always do. All I'm saying is that sometimes there IS a reason behind those lengthy waits and it is not always that one is out of contention for the position.

One other tip, not always possible to do... we've hired lots of people over the last few months, and hardly ever used recruiters, since the job market is soft in Silicon Valley, and you can find lots of qualified people through employee referrals and direct inquiries from candidates.

With the money we saved on recruiters, we were able to hire even more people.

Oh, how I wish that were true of most recruiters. Instead I repeatedly see headhunters desperately send me every candidate they come across that even vaguely matches my parameters. This is why I never give an opening to a headhunter unless I have already trolled all the job boards, posted usenet ads, and given it a goos 3 weeks or so of internal efforts first. Nothing annoys me more than spending $20,000 on someone who did nothing more than run a search on monster.

</rant>

Thanks for the tips Trojan/Techgirl. I was interested to see what you wrote about the 'Thank you' note after the interview. Now I had never heard of this, but it came in very useful for me. I should explain, that I was employed by TWA in the UK, and wasn't in the first wave of people taken on by AA. This meant that we weren't able to apply for internal positions, and had to apply for all positions along with the public.

Of course, many people we in the same position as us, and one of my friends in Boston, had gone for 75 jobs at AA, all over their system without any response! She had sent a note to everyone of her interviewers, so I decided to give that a try. I had been for 10 jobs at that point, and had heard back from only 1. I sent notes to each of the interviewers I had not heard back from, and got replies one way or the other from every single one. Some even called to talk to me, and thank me for my thank you note, as they had never had anyone do this before.

Now as Techgirl mentioned, sometimes the delay in reply, is in fact due to your resume being passed round. This is exactly what happened to me here in AA. I got a phonecall from a guy, whose name I won't mention, who told me to pop by his office in Terminal 3 at Heathrow, "sometime on Friday". Now I was still employed by TWA at this time, but we were all wrapping things up, and delaying so we all had jobs. I went to the terminal on the Friday, and met with this guy in his office, and we chatted about all sorts, some work related, some not. He told me that a couple of the people that had interviewed me, had asked around other area managers, and had been trying to bend job descriptions around my resume! To say I was stunned would be understatement. At the end of this meeting, I had a date for a second interview with this guy, and two others in his department, one of whom had to come from Dallas.

The interview was unlike anything I had ever faced before, as it was all laid back, and we all sat at a round table. The one thing I have found with panel interviews, is that usually, I would be sitting in front of a long table, with people sitting at either end and in the middle, so that my head is bouncing from side to side to try and keep eye contact. It is almost like trying to watch a game at Wimbledon! The interview was kept really short, as many had studied previous interview notes, and at the end of it, I was offered the position.

The important thing was that I had to just keep plugging. Now I know I was lucky in as much as I had a job, so the money was still coming in. I have been unemployed before, and it was hard, as unemployment benefit in the UK never used to start for six weeks, but there are jobs out there, and I am sure you will all find them.

Good luck in your respective searches.

It's good to hear that there are jobs out there! here, I don't know a single person that has found a job. And I don't think that the delay is because our resumes are being passed around. Four months is too much, and it has happened to friends, too. I have an update on the recruiter from my starting post. I was supposed to go in to the city today to have a phone interview. I had suggested that we do it at the recruiter's office since they insist on meeting me and since I was already coming into the city I said today would be good, so they arranged the appointment with the company.

Now at almost the last minute, as I would have to leave in one hour, they want to reschedule it for tomorrow. I had to tell them YET AGAIN that I DO NOT HAVE A PHONE. I even added, I am not likely to resolve this situation in the near future so please don't even ask. I did try to be as nice as I could about it but I don't know what else to do to get through to them. They then emailed back to please be at their offices TOMORROW after I had already stated that I only have one old set of train tickets that I am using today for another appt. Finally I was so disgusted with all this that I just said, I can't do this at all. I just have to wonder if these people are all there. I try to be nice, but I have to wonder, "just what part of 'I DON'T HAVE A PHONE' don't they understand?"

This phone interview, too, was not even with the hiring manager at the company, but with some assistant in IT. I have repeatedly told recruiters I am not interested in IT (of course this is not even really IT, but building spreadsheets!) but as someone posted above, many recruiters are interested only in throwing candidates at the companies.

Being unemployed for so long really changes your perspective, too. I used to think in terms of getting 100 miles each day. Now I think about getting 100 dollars each day. The other night in the ambulance there was this kid who was talking about how he had just bought a new bag (for carrying emergency stuff, I guess for his own use, since it is not required). It cost about $88. I was listening to this and wondering how anyone could afford this. Eight months ago, I would not have thought twice about such an expense.

It absolutely amazes me to see people going to their jobs and to realize that people DO have jobs out there while I don't.

A guy in the Walgreen's suggested that I fill out an application, even that started to look good. They get discounts there too!

[This message has been edited by CozumelJen (edited 06-19-2002).]

Here is my 2 cents on Thank You notes. I think that you should send one, however mine is a bit different. All the books I read say that you send a nice hand written note, well I completely disagree. You are not writing to Grandma thanking her for the lovely scarf, you are trying to sell yourself. A letter in the mail can sometimes take longer than the decision making process. Also in large companies mail is sometimes lost in the abyss and not delivered timely.

When I was looking for a job a few years back I sent an email "thank you". Generally everyone you interview with hands you a business card with their email address, so you know that the email will go directly to them, and not through the HR department. Many people on this board have jobs that require travel and rarely make it into an office on a regular basis. The partner I now work for joked that it was a week after I started that she got the snail mail version of my thank you (I sent both.) Most people replied fairly quickly after receiving my email, which helped put the ball back in their court.

Our company is pretty quick to make a decision. You interview with 4 or 5 people in a short amount of time and everyone gives a "yeh" or "neh" by the end of the day. The thank you email a few hours interviewing could cinch the deal and it shows you are interested.

I agree that not all of the companies are passing applications and resumes about, but it does happen. People who just don't let you know, one way or the other, are just plain rude. I have tended to follow up one week after I was told I would know, and have, on more than one occasion, been told to not call, they will make their mind up in their own time.

I wish you all the luck in the world I really do. I had to take a pay-cut in the job I took at American, and it is unlikely that we will get pay raises in the forseeable future. In fact, we are going to be asked to take pay-cuts. The important thing is that markets will improve, and you will find another job.

How long have you been out of work, if you don't mind me asking. Another thing, as you are short of a phone, I have a tri-band Motorola Cell phone, which you are welcome to, if you can get a pre-pay sim. The reception on the phone is good, and people think I am on a landline when I talk on it. If you can make use of it for a while, let me know.

Everybody keep the faith, it will work out.