Censorship on Flyertalk
 

Over the past few months I have started several threads that were on topic, only to have them disappear a few hours later. I am not talking about a thread being closed or moved (I looked) but just removed without a trace.

I question how many other posts are being handled this way.

I have to agree that deleting threads (or even moving most of them) is really not adding any value to any of us.

It's also annoying when I was just replying to a message by Tango, spending a good amount of time coming up with a response, only to find out the thread was deleted out from under me.

MilesBuzz used to have a lot of really good discussion. Now under this new scheme, some of the topics are more appropriate for TravelBuzz and are moved, and others are deleted completely. TravelBuzz doesn't get anywhere near the amount of traffic MilesBuzz gets, so the responses to questions are fewer and the threads are of less quality.

Before this thread gets deleted for being "off-topic" my issues are specifically about this forum, and I think they should be left here for discussion.

d

Have you tried checking the "Misposted Threads" forum, a/k/a/ "Thread Hell"? I posted something here last night and it was unceremoniously whisked there. Great, now nobody will respond to it.

I don't see how the Thread Nazis make FT better, either, but then I don't see how rules like "no using the bathroom in the last 30 minutes before landing at DCA" make flying safer.

How 'bout this idea: Change the name of MilesBuzz to StuffBuzz. Then nothing's off-topic!

[This message has been edited by Frequent Freak (edited 03-26-2002).]

Tango,

Can you indicate what threads you have started that have disappeared?

If so, I will follow-up with Randy and his team.

I find it hard to believe that the FT staff is just "nuking" posts.

William

I also just had a thread disappear. The thread discussed the recent travel agent commission elimination and was named something about Joe Branatellia (sp)I spent over a half hour replying and was told that there was not enough disk space to reply. When I returned to the Buz it was gone. At least I should have some idea of where it went.

Hope I can get a few words in here. To my knowledge, there has only been one thread deleted in the last let's asay six months and it had to do with a very nasty thread about obese passengers which some members honestly thought was applicable to MilesBuzz!. I was going to move it hwen i decided in a moment of weakness that the topic didn't deserve the courtesy of being handled with care as other threads have been. Now, I will defend the point of this thread. Tango states that several of his has dissapeared that he started and that all have been on topic. Here's the facts: in Misposted threads, there is only one of his that he started (march 25) and that was moved to TravelBuzz!. It was stated that it was on topic. The thread moved was titled "How online booking will cost you." It was a comparison of airfares being different from one online agency to another. Now, I'm not trying to pick on anyone here. but please, will someone tell me how that topic is relevant to MilesBuzz! The purpose of MilesBuzz! is stated as "Discussion of the latest frequent flyer program buzz... " What may be happening is that Tango and others are looking at threads that have their name as the thread starter. When we have to move threads from one forum to another (a different license and board), we have to post it as "TravelAssist" as the thread starter because we can only move threads with everything in place within a forum. Now, I don't believe we caused this problem. If any of the posts noted had been placed in the proper forum, there would have been no loss of thread start.

Now, let's look at the concept that TravelBuzz! doesn't get any traffic vs. MilesBuzz! Somehow the facts don't prove this to be correct. Let's see, as of right now (11:30 am on Tuesday), MilesBuzz! has 34 active threads from the past five days; TravelBuzz! has 51 active threads from the past five days. Seems that TravelBuzz! is fairly active. I got into a little discussion the other day with another member who got made at me for moving a thread from Miles to Travel. She too contended that she only wanted to use FlyerTalk to post things where she wanted and that nothing would get any action over in TravelBuzz!. In the first day of this members post on MilesBuzz! it got 4 replies. I moved it over that evening despite taking some grief from the member. The next day in TravelBuzz!, it got 8 replies in it's first day (double that on the first day in MilesBuzz!) and has gone on to have a totle of 14 replies from TravelBuzz! in the five days total on TravelBuzz! So, the facts say a good topic will get attention if posted in the proper place. One problem that will always exist is that some threads won't get any attention no matter where they are posted. of the current active 34 topics on MilesBuzz!, five of them have less than 4 posts as replies and these are several days old.

We simply cannot allow members to post topics where ever they want and as the member of FlyerTalk who has served the longest as a member of this board, find it better to know what i will be seeing when i visit a described forum.

Hope this helps and if it doesn't I will try to assit any member contacting me. The secret: know the topic, not the thread starter.

and please, use of the word censorship here is I think misleading.

cy-gone: I understand your frustration, perhaps you might want to email the member - bnaboy - that started the thread in the wrong forum that caused your frustration. Now, let's try a little test here. The thread in discussion here is about travel agent commissions. Below are two forums where members might likely start such a thread, as well as look for that topic. A and B. Here's are the "offical" decriptions of those two threads. Read carefully and post where you think the topic of travel agents and commissions might appropriately be posted. Now, this is not a trick question, doesn't even requite a theme paper of a response...just A or B. I'm voting for B, but don't let my vote influence you in any manner.

(A)
MilesBuzz!
Discussion of the latest frequent flyer program buzz...

(B)
TravelBuzz!
If it's a travel topic worth talking about, it's likely in this forum. (non-frequent flyer program travel)

This thread is now located in TravelBuzz! and here's that link for you...see, we can be helpful.

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...ML/006677.html

Dear Randy,

I just found where the topic I wanted to respond to was placed. It was placed under the misplaced posting topic. I tried to respond in that forum and received a message that you can not respond there. Effectively my voice has been censored and this bothers me. The topic was not moved to the travel related section, as you stated above. It was place at the bottum of the mileage forum and is effectively closed from anyone posting anything further. I would point out that this was a very active topic and had received over 25 postings in the last day. I did not start the topic, but was watching it closely and would like to resopond to what others have posted. Certainly the mileage buzz should take in the hottest topics happening in the travel world today. The ellimination of TA commisions is a big story and the silencing of the discussion should not be tolotated.

I call "misplaced threads" The Island of Misfit Threads.

And you are correct that picking through the 'garbage' is not allowed.

It's Randy's house. He cleans it as he sees fit! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ideasmilie.gif

Thanks Randy,

Did find the thread and will try to post for the third time. One point I would like to make is many of the topics already in the buzz have very little to do with mileage or the ability to get it. But thanks again.

I for one am very glad with the current solution for misposted posts, I have had several emails from Randy pointing me to the correct place for my posts, I guess it's a lot of work but am sure it will create a much clutterless environment in the long run...

cy-gone: Again you seem to operate in a zone that I can't figure out. My instructions (and a link) do not take you to mis-placed posts. Why you would go there after reading my post I have no idea. So, what do I do, I go to the link I supplied you, it takes me directly to the correct thread and guess what - i had no problem posting a reply. In fact, go see it for yourself. As for trying to silence the topic. Hello, is anyone out there? What did i do to silence the topic? If anything is true, it's just the opposite. Why? I own a travel agency that has been devastated by this and I may have to close it. Tip: Follow instructions and no one will get hurt.

Again, you and I must be on different Boards. It's near 2 pm (MST) and I went over to look at MilesBuzz! per your statement. I went through all the threads and all 39 active threads from the past 5 days are about miles. I'm left scratching my head - this is FlyerTalk we're talking about right? Could you list the "many" threads on MilesBuzz! that you don't consider are about miles. It's never too late for me to learn something about this topic. Thanks for any help in this matter.

Dear Randy,

Just on the first page of the buzz: topics that strikes me most are. "Dine Rocks" how about "Hilton Honors, do they expire" Hilton forum maybe,Why am I getting Inside Flyer late, Thank you Randy, and Would this be legal ticketing. These are topics for the Buzz? Who decides what is there.

I too am hopelessly confused by all this "post moving" activity, and I have been around almost since the beginning and have honestly tried to understand the new policies as best I can.

Here, for example, is why I am confused. I need to fly to SEA/MPL and want to find the most cost-effective way to get there that will allow me to earn miles (general and status) and get an upgrade. I tried the UAL website without any luck and posted my question in Miles Buzz because (as stated therein) earning miles was my primary goal. I got quite a few very knowledgeable replies very soon after posting and then went on-line the next day to find that the topic had been moved to the misposted threads forum. I thereafter received an e-mail telling me that it had been moved to Travel Buzz and have since made several attempts to search for it on there using my name, the subject, etc., all to no avail. To the best of my knowledge, all respoonses ceased after the topic was moved. I don't understand why it was moved, can't find it and I still need help. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

The frustration and unrest that this post movement (almost 100 topics and nearly 2,000 posts) has caused is apparent across the boards and does, I am afraid, discourage frequent posting (at least it has for me). Another problem that has resulted from the new (and at least for me, mysterious) policy is that forums that were previously fairly well defined (like this one for instance) are now becoming cluttered with random topics (like this one for instance) simply because very intelligent, seasoned and well meaning FlyerTalkers can't figure out where their posts should go.

It would seem that all of these problems could be easily resolved by simply creating a "General Travel Talk" area on FT Miles. Since the confusion seems universal and the demand for a "General" area on FT Miles has been so high and persistent, and because it seems like such a quick and rational fix, why is it not done? Is there some technical reason that this can't be done? If there actually is some technical problem that is at the base of this new policy, it would help a great deal if that were explained, which would make it a great deal easier to understand. FlyerTalkers are, IMHO, a very intelligent, cooperative group who honestly do their very best to work together when they understand the goal.

It would make me very sad indeed if this tendency to over manage posts resulted in robbing FlyerTalk of the joy and spontaneity that have over the years made FT the best (and most addictive) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif site on the internet.

Punki - there is an old expression - "there is nothing new under the sun".

There used to be as I am sure most here will recall, a heavily used Forum called exactly that. "GENERAL TRAVEL TALK". Since it was abolished for whatever reason the Buzz has got cluttered with stuff that used to go into it. And threads like this now occur, and folks get heated. Thats progress for you.

Let's try and help the last three members that posted:
cy-gone - Let's see, did you read iDine? It is all about earning miles for dining with tips on how to register which cards and how to leverage the mile earning. It's probably there because IDine exists with several frequent flyer programs and that member chose to place it there - rather than a lot of cross posting to the various airlines in which iDine participates in. As for Hilton, you got me there. On the list to move to Hilton but just not possible in the five minutes a day i have available for FlyerTalk. I took a long weekend away and thus it was only today those (both of the Hilton threads) were moved to Hilton. Now as for the Thanks Randy, that is over in community as i just coulnd't think of a more specific spot for it other than delete it and then that action might bring up a "censorship" issue here on FlyerTalk that we can't say anything nice or bad as it will lead to censorship. As for legal ticketing. Again, have you read the post? It's all about an award ticket and a chage to the route, Actually an interesting topic that I hope gets more input since there are some very peculiar rules attached to award ticket changes after the award use has started. And as for the InsideFlyer thread. I'm not sure where to put it since it is really about a frequent flyer publication, kind of like why were some miles i earned from United posted late. sorry if it offends you but as soon as we get insideflyer.com launched, i'll make sure those threads go elsewhere. Again, while some of the comments in that thread aren't too complimentary, I allowed them to stay - uncensored and take the heat. Sure, could have deleted it, but censorship isn't a real practice around here as you may or not believe. As for who decides? Well, you're talking to him, with some help from another moderator. Yep. it's just craig and i against some 487,000 of you all. Not sure if this is an Alamo, but we'll go down to the last thread if we have to......Just like the real world, someone decided the speed limit you drive, the amount of money you pay for electricity, the books your kids will read in school (if appropriate), the way your taxpayer dollars are spent, the date on which your income taxes are due. Yes, there's people out there making decisions for you. Are they always correct? No, not always. But think of what life would be without any decisions? Well, maybe you can think of life without the income taxes..... hope this helps.

Now on to Punki - Let's be a little fair here: you mention you could not find the thread after you got an email that said it was moved. We have been trying to help people with their posting and have tried as you have identified to make it easy to continue posting. In your note above, you mention that after receiving the email you "have since made several attempts to search for it on there using my name, the subject, etc., all to no avail." The fair part here is that the email I sent Punki explaining the change in her post, also included a direct link to the new thread. Why you would not choose to clink on that and instead bemoan that you could not find it is beyond me. However, it was a judgement call. your post indicated several things you wanted to know: Is it possible to get any miles flying Ryan Air?; Do they have any partners?; What experiences have you had, both good and bad?; Where the heck is Stansted?

I read the responses and after the short "no" on the miles, all the rest of the thread dealt with Stanstead and experiences of flying the airline - again, a judgement call since 99% of the information was not about miles. If we offended you, then we are truly sorry, but look at our reasoning and the fact we actually read the post before taking any action. Not only that, but provided a personal email to you and the others who had posted to the thread as to where is was now located.

Punki and sendoisan: So we're back on General Travel Talk now. What did we do but change that name to TravelBuzz! last July and that small change, which was announced, has set you into a swirl? Well, it seems to be working for a large majority of FlyerTalk. There are more active threads on TravelBuzz! than on MilesBuzz! today than ever. Here's an interesting look at how things have chaged over there. 100 days ago there were 31 pages of active threads on MilesBuzz!, only 15 pages on TravelBuzz!; 60 days ago there were 17 pages of active threads on Milesbuzz! and 12 pages on TravelBuzz!. as of 45 days ago there were 11 pages of active threads on MilesBuzz! and 10 pages on TravelBuzz!, and this is before we really have been working on things over the last three weeks. What this factually proves is that TravelBuzz! is not the siberia you think and has started to rival milesBuzz! for the attention of FlyerTalk members. In fact, today there are more active threads on TravelBuzz! than on MilesBuzz!. I think you would be hard pressed to not visit TravelBuzz! and say it doesn't portray what General TravelTalk looked like as of last year. Actually, cigarman two weeks ago visited us on the topic of better navigation to that area and what was great is that rather than just complain, he actually proposed soemthing that will work for navigation and we would have had it up and running except that the graphics person is on spring Break..... So, around here at work i have a rule - never bring me your problems unless you have also taken the time to bring me a few solutions. It makes better thinking employees and maybe if you brought me solutions it might make a better FlyerTalk. Just one thing, don't suggest that any member can post anything they want anywhere they want. I argues with a member about that issue last week and in the end, I won, I blocked their ability to post on FlyerTalk. I was here before any of you, and really don't find it difficult at all to use common sense when posting. Simply - it's like posting apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

I hope i haven't stepped on any toes when answering this. In an attempt to try and catch up on a few things i ran out on some time.

Randy,

First let me thank you for this forum and the free exchange of ideas, for that you should be applauded. I know that censorship was never what was intended when the moderator system was put in effect.

When I first came to Flyertalk it was much less regulated than today and I loved it. It was in the Buzz where I first learned about the Latin Pass mileage run. I would escape to that forum every day and prepare for my own LP run. If a frequent flyer program were offering a million mile promotion today, I may not learn about it because it may be quickly moved to the appropriate forum. Postings last year in the Buzz made me aware of Hiltons 50,000 point promotions, my wife and I did these twice to accumulate over 200,000 points. We were not even members of Hilton Honors before, and in one year we are Diamond members. It was the Buzz and not the Hilton forums, which attracted me to those offers.

I recently received a letter from Sprint telling me about the end of its alliance with Northwest. A pretty significant announcement: considering both my phones are enrolled in 40,000 mile promotions. I thought of posting this announcement but was uncertain where it should go. The Buzz, Northwest or Sprint, in the end so as not to be censored, I ended up not posting at all. A forum where free thought is allowed should be located somewhere

Although I have significant amounts of miles in Continental, United, Northwest, Latin Pass, Starwood and Hilton I do not have time to scan these topics everyday. I generally just read the Buzz and move on. I would like to see an unregulated section that covered mileage earning announcements, and other travel related news.

I would rather read ten thousand worthless postings and discover one brilliant one, than one thousand mundane mileage postings. I’m not only looking for the gems; another million mile offer; a 99 dollar airfare to Europe or Australia, with double miles involved, but maybe just a significant discussion about a travel related issues. Something that moves me to act, and I really don’t care how many worthless postings are allowed. One thing I notice about postings no one is interested in; they quickly become lost from the boards when the acquire no responses. If a topic has no interest it will disappear on its own.

I would second Punkis’ suggestion of a General travel talk forum in the miles section. I know you may argue one already exists. The problem is no one can find it. Let me give you an example of what happens to a post that is moved to the present General Travel Talk forum. Yesterday in the same thread that started this dialog between you and I, there were twenty-eight postings, with different expressions of views while it was in the Buzz. Today after the move there are two postings in the Travel forum. One is mine and the other is yours. We may be the only two people who now know where it is.

I also understand that complaining is not the solution. If I can help become part of the solution please advise me, and I will do what I can. Again I would like to thank you for these forums.

cy-gone, I agree.

While I am sure that the number of posts/pages on Travel Buzz is on the rise, I also believe it is because of the thousand+ Miles Buzz posts that are arbitrarily transferred thereto.

Why????????? If it is not intuitive and doesn't work for the large numbers of FlyerTalkers who have erroneously posted almost 2,000 inaccurately positioned posts, why continue this plan/regime. It obviously isn't working to achieve the mysterious goal it was intended to reach.

Yes, Randy, to be fair, I did receive an e-mail, telling me that my post had been repositioned to............wherever it is, that I honestly don't remember--maybe FT Travel, but I deleted the e-mail believeing that I could locate my post via search. I receive about 200 e-mails daily and only hold on to those that are crucial to my business, assuming (obviously wrongfully) that I could find my post.

The real issue here is Why is this happening? What is the goal? It makes no sense to me and obviously makes even less sense to 1,999 other FlyerTalkers who have misposted, not to mention the XX,XXX,XXX poster/lurkers, who are just confused by it all.

I'm extremely nervous about posting on this topic as it's so often dangerous to get in the middle of a hot topic like this, but I'll try to see if I can do some good.

Punki, I am not a fan of moving all of these posts out of MilesBuzz!, and I have posted previously (not much, but some) disagreement with the practice.

However, it's clear that this is the way things are going to be. The choice I have now is whether or not to tilt at windmills or say that the decision is made and see what I can do to make FlyerTalk as good as possible in the context of this being inevitable.

If it succeeds, then hopefully I'll have the satisfaction of helping make a difficult situation work, and if it fails, I'll have the supreme satisfaction of saying "I told you so," and additioanlly, I'll have some suggestions on new approaches.

But the fact the remains, that this approach is absolutely, positively going to be tried out, and for a sizable period of time, so is there any way that you can help as an important longstanding member and role model to make the trial be fair and given a good shot to succeed?

Thanks for at least consdering it.

robb, I most definitely share your concern about posting on this topic and that is exactly my point.

FlyerTalk has always been my favorite cyberspace specifically because it was populated by gracious, civilized, highly intelligent and sophisticated world travelers who drove the direction of the board by their very amazing wisdom, and sometimes craziness and spontaneity (witness the PIP which was once just a whacky glimmer in the eye of someone in The Buzz. I don't even remember who had that goofy idea in the beginning, but WOW do I ever remember where that idea went. It scares me that posters are now hesitant, even frightened, to say what they truly believe.

This site has changed my life much for the better both in terms of wonderful friendships earned, phenomenal experiences and the most delightful broadening of my almost crochety old mind. Trust me, 5 years ago the idea of hopping off to Singapore for a quick business meeting and the celebration of Hunki's big 60, would have been beyond my comprehension, whereas I now suffer the jetlag from that wonderful notion. My old friends actually believe that I may have gone mad these last few years, but, of course, my children think that we have become wonderful (maybe slightly nutty) old adventurers rather than stodgy old parents. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

You are further absolutely right, however, that we must make every effort to try to go with the flow and I am most certainly trying to understand the logic behind these new policies and work with them to the best of my ability. It would, however, be much easier if I had an understanding of the reasoning and ultimate goals driving these decisions. They, at this point just seem rather random, frivolous and ............ I don't know what.

You are further right that if, in the end, the new policies do indeed help achieve the ultimate goal, then they will have proven successful and I will be wrong in my assessments (a not unheard of reality). I promise, however, never to say, "I told you so". http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

My only point in posting my experience is to help the powers that be at FlyerTalk understand that the new procedures and policies are cumbersome for ordinary posters like me and discourage the easily confused like me from posting. If, however, on the other hand, this new plan encourages thousands of other people to post more, and that is the ultimate goal, then it will have succeeded.

I apologize if my posting my opinion and experience is in any way counter productive to the new goals. That is most certainly not my intent. I just want FlyerTalk to remain the wonderful meeting place for the ultimately hip old and young world travelers that it has always been.

I can hardly imagine Randy making himself any clearer on these issues than he already has -- repeatedly. Some of this continuing to sound the same point in the face of a very clear response reminds me of my teenager who tells me "You don't understand" when I do understand -- I just don't agree.

Precisely, imo, precisely!

I'm not entirely clear, Punki , as to why your inability to remember which forum that your post was in is Randy's problem, particularly when he had sent you the exact link to find it ! I'm not sure why your email practices have any bearing on the issues at hand.

Here's the way I see it: There are changes on this board.

As robb put it so well:

Some of these changes I agree with, some of them I don't. Some of them I initially thought I disagreed with I am nonetheless finding are good changes as I live with them. The bottom line is that it is Randy's board, we are guests here, and he can choose to do this place any way he wants and should.

Indeed. Randy is not the government.

(edited for coding)

[This message has been edited by cblaisd (edited 03-27-2002).]

cblaisd, first of all I honestly do not understand the ultimate goal of these new policies. If you really do, please be so kind as to specifically enlighten me. I am sure that greater understanding would lead to ............... well greater understanding. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I further assure you that I am not being confrontational with regard to my trip to Provence--I am simply trying to pick the cumulative brain of all of the wonderfully intelligent and knowledgeable FlyerTalkers to help me get the most miles and most comfort for the least money on my SEA/MPL trip.

I did indeed receive an official e-mail from FT telling me that the post had been repositioned (I still don't know why) to, I am almost certain, Travel Buzz. I have a limited amount of space in my "on the road" account was traveling to SIN and trying to keep my account under 1,000 indispensable business e-mails and just assumed that this one could be dumped because I could search for the thread in Travel Buzz. I am just an ordinary traveler with ordinary means, making ordinary decisions and honestly lack the superior cyber sophistication that many of you enjoy. I have searched Travel Buzz many ways and cannot find my thread but still need answers. If you can find it (the thread), please supply me with the link as I am still in need of wonderful FlyerTalk assistance for this trip.

I most wholeheartedly agree that we are all gracious (I hope) guests on this wonderful board and am simply seeking a clear understanding of the new rules so as not to embarrass myself or anyone else by future mispostings.

Is this what you are looking for Punki?

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...ML/006633.html

Edited to add: P.S. Go to bed already! Its the middle of the night!

[This message has been edited by missydarlin (edited 03-27-2002).]

Precisely, missy darling (how did you find it), and thank you for the wonderful sleeping advice. My poor old body is still trying to figure out where it is and what time it is supposed to be responding to. Ah, the joys of world travel. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

As you can see, the post received good response until it was moved and then.....nothing. I am still looking for good ideas on how to get the most miles and comfort for the least money SEA/MPL during mid June. Where should I post?

Punki - I could have told you to avoid Ryan Air and Stansted, but I also have never been to Travel Buzz. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif I just clicked on the link Missy Darling gave above.

I have to scratch my head a little here in confusion. I have never seen "Travel Assist" before - assume he/she is a moderator/staffer of some kind? Fine. But if whomever it is who now makes these calls decided Punki's thread was not in the right place, why isn't is possible to move it as a thread reading normally, and showing Punki as the thread starter? Just in a new Forum decided by whomever?

The one in blue a post or two up is a jumbled montage of what used to be a normal thread it looks like. I will go do a test post there soon to see what occurs if I try to post. How is it that some threads that Craig6Z etc moves leave the original thread there in the wrong forum, (which soon fades from view but is there for archival purposes), with a link to new thread work fine, and in this case it is all different. Just wondering.

I went to travel buzz and changed the parameter to show me posts in the last 10 days instead of 5. (Since I knew you'd been gone the last 5 days) Then looked for posts by TravelAssist.

you should still post in TravelBuzz...but your RyanAir post didnt mention where and when you were going..just asked for opinions on Ryanair.

BTW..you can fly NW SEA/LGW and earn AS miles and status..then connect to GB Airways AMS/MRS (about 60 miles from MPL) it has a BA flight number..and you may be able to earn AS miles (but not towards status) on that as well.

I too benefitted greatly from the Hilton bonus, found the LP bonus to be intriguing, etc.

Guess what guys?? These things are MILES RELATED and similar types of promose WILL BE in MilesBuzz because of this.

I also think that Randy has now made himself quite clear on this subject about 20 times now on various threads and am dumbfounded that people are unable to accept the way that things are. Personally I probably check into the Travel forums about a third as much as I do Miles, but that still allows me to keep current on what is there.

Also, Punki, I just checked that thread and to be perfectly honest there is very little left to say about your questions as each seems to have been answered several times.

Thank you hyfly for your investigative effort on this issue on my behalf. I am still not comfortable, however, that I have all the best answers that are typical of a normal in depth FlyerTalk discussion. Iter-Europe travel is a great source of confusion to me.

Because my most logical choice would be to find a cheap UA ticket to somewhere in Europe where there is a logical and cost-effective connection to MPL, it would perhaps have made a great deal more sense (in retrospect) to have made my original post in United Forum. I chose FT Miles Buzz instead because I thought it would garner more responses from the very sophisticated Inter-European travelers in that space, as proved to be the case.

Now I am just baffled. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Punki, now I realize that in moving your Ryan Air thread that you feel i put it out to pasture in TravelBuzz! and the blame is that it only got 2 responses after the move. Fine, blame me. But I think I may have something else about that subject you might take into consideration before bringing out the voodoo doll on me for that. Fact is, there was another thread about Ryan Air (with Ryan in the subject) that was started on 1/25/02. It received some 30+ replies, the last one being 3/4/02. Your thread was started on 3/17. The reason why you might not have got much - not because of just the move to TravelBuzz!, is that many of the people who really know about Ryan probably just answered on the other thread since it was so recent and seeing Ryan in the subject again didn't bother since they had said all they could add. Hey, that's not United Airlines we're talking about here and it might be there was just enough said on the topic. I think if you would have done a search for Ryan in the subject in TravelBuzz! first, you would have found this thread and really learned every single thing you were asking about from the 30+ replies it had. There is some really good stuff in there, but again, i think it might have been partially because they threads were so close apart and the title with Ryan air in them were seen as similar. Again, I'll take all the blame in the world for the move to TravelBuzz!, but go read all the replies of yours and of the other thread and see how much was really said about miles. My guess - less than 1 percent. I think perhaps using the search engine for TravelBuzz! will really help many people understand how much valuable information is in there already. Please, go to this link of the existing thread about Ryan Air and see what the advice and opinions are. Hope this helps.

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...ML/006545.html

Thank you Randy. You are most certainly and absolutely right that I did not do a bang up job of wording my query. In truth and in fact, I am not remotely interested in Ryan Air per se, it was just one of the inter-European airline names that I knew. What I am truly interested in is how to travel SEA/MPL earning the most miles, enjoying the most comfort (so that is probably upgraded on UAL), for the best price and I still am not sure where to post it.

I am thinking UA because I don't want to get a bunch of people telling me about BA, or AA or NWA fares and routings and I am sure that these days there are UA flyers who face this same dilemna.

This is the first time that I have ever felt this type of hesitation and confusion on FT and it is not a great feeling. In the past I could have just posted it and waited for responses. Now it is really complicated. My only concern is that there are others who feel this way too who simply go away. I have made so many wonderful FlyerTalk friends and don't want to lose any potentials to this kind of confusion or frustration and am sure you must feel much the same way.

It will all work out.