Guangzhou-Things to see?
 

I will be in HKG on a mileage run next week and plan on taking a day trip to Guangzhou. I do have a visa. Is there anything I definitely have to see?
Thanks

perhaps a day trip to macau instead (think u dont need visa). not much to see in guangzhou and it takes you 4+ hour door2door going oneway by train, and 3hr by plane..therefore a day trip may not work out well, try shenzhen, if you want a flavor of mainland china, they have most of what guangzhou can offer

Thanks, Pegasus:
I have been to Macau and would prefer something on the "mainland", since I have the visa. Actually, I did think of Shenzen, but thought that Guangzhou was more desirable. I am prepared to change my plans, though.
What do other flyertalkers think?

I haven't been to the mainland in years. From what I remember about Guangzhou, there isn't too much to see a Pegasus8228 mentioned. The markets may be a good place to see (and smell) the local fare.

I do remember going to sme restaurants in a classical chinese setting. The restaurant is housed in a walled court with tables around a sculptured garden. A guide book may be able to give you some suggestions.

Vulcan
Did a one day tour from HKG to Shenzen AND Guangzhou, Ferry to Shenzen (1 hour), Morning tour of Shenzen including visit to kindergarten, coach to Guangzhou, lunch in old part of city, express train back to HKG. Long day, 7am to 9pm but definitely worth it and good value, around US$100. Booked mine with travel agent in the basement of the Hyatt in Nathan Road. You need your passport AND a visa(takes 2 days) and the travel agent will do it for you. Make sure the spelling of your name on the visa application you sign is EXACTLY the same as the passport. Three of our party were held up in Shenzen customs by zealous officials and had to join us later, missing the Shenzen tour so make sure your visa is applicable. The food in Guangzhou was excellent and our tour guide, a young Chinese girl who spoke better English than I do was outstanding. We all tipped her voluntarily at the end of the day and she was overwhelmed. I strongly advise you to do it.

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JBC

My parents did the Shenzen trip from HKG last year but they got 48hr visas issued at the border post itself for free. They were carrying Indian passports. Any idea if this is still the case? I am planning a day trip to the mainland next month too while transiting HKG and didn't think that the visa would need 48 hrs.

The outdoor markets in Guangzhou are unbelievable. Be prepared. Everything is sold there. The scenery on the train ride to/from Hong Kong in pleasant enough and the train ride is an experience itself. Great destination. If you decide to spend the evening, try the White Swan hotel. It is right on the river and just a few blocks walk from the larget outdoor market in the city.

Yes... the market by the White Swan will really give you a taste of China... That would be my #1 recommendation.
I LOVE Guangzhou, have been there about 6 times. In one day you will likely only do tourist things. *DO* have a tour as opposed to trying to do anything on your own. GZ trivia - the surface area of the cars there is greater than the surface area of the total roads... can you say gridlock? And yes, the train ride from HK to GZ is a rich experience. IMHO, GZ is much mor *China* than Shenzhen and worth the extra travel time. (I think Macau is a dump.)

the main reason i suggested shenzhen is mainly logistics, i.e. if u are planning for a day trip, u sd probably think about shenzhen instead of guangzhou. however, if u plan to stay overnight, guangzhou is a better place than shenzhen.

what u wd see in shenzhen is post-80 china. but guangzhou is a much older and more sophisticated city, with a number od cultural sites as well.
1. white swan is the best hotel, by the river....also walk by the river bank reminds u of what GZ is like 50 years ago...similar to bunk in shanghai...
2. places to see: sun yat-sen memorial hall, huanghuagang memorial, yuexiu park (an ancient tower and the ram sculture)
3. as for food/etc...similar to Shenzhen but GZ of course has more of the authenic cantonese food

I'd also suggest going with the tour, unless you have a lot of time. If you're doing the night, you can pre-book the White Swan or elsewhere thru some of the agents here in HKG.
If you need some agents contact numbers, drop me a line.
If you're in Shenzhen, check out Lo Wu Commercial City (above the bus station, 2 mins walk from Customs) - best selection of brand names at well...far from brand name prices...

But Eric, they are fake! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif

talk about shenzhen/guangzhou/hk....u can also look for "fake" cdrom/vcd/dvd...although nowadays they r difficult to find, mainly on streets in HK during nights/sundays....viva napster!

Onepasslover - what ? I just *can't* believe that... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
A fake with the labels inside ? Come one - a pair of 101% authentic Timberland boots for 20USD - it's just a good deal..

Actually I wonder does Lo Wu Commercial City (5 floors or is it 6) qualify as the larest enclosed emporium of upmarket fake goods anywhere ?

1. The Brand name good at Lo Wo Commmercial Center are... either Fake (copy design from magazines) or rejected/surplus (that means from the same factory) from local manufacturers. It is morally bad to buy a fake brandname but if you want most trendy thing and don't expect that to last forever, it is a way to go. (think about those crazy design handbag/shoes that you will only use it once or twice and will be odd to use it next season, you gonna spend US$1xxx or US$50?) BUT REMEMBER to BARGIN!!

2. GZ do have more "China" feeling, do walk along the former embassy district (sound like) "Po Dong". I don't know which restaurants will have English speaking waitress so if you are not in tour, go to hotels. Restaurants in Hotel normally good. (even locals will go to hotel for Dim Sum and Tea)

3. I do NOT recommand you go to transborder with KCR train (especially HK-China in the morning and China-HK in the evening since many locals goes through, long queue and jamed train) (but fare is cheaper, of course).

4. Canton-Kowloon Throughtrain is price around $2xx HKD (US$30), around 2 hour train ride and there are two types of train now, one is more "China" (single deck) and anotherone is doubledeck "KTT". Seating for me KTT is a little bit better. REMEMBER to check schedule.

5. Maybe I am HK Food "adapted", I found that HK's food somehow more declicious, especially dim sums. Hee..

6. (Haha) If you goes through a train station called TaiPo (4th from the Chinese border), say "Hi" to my Home distrcit http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Have a Great Trip.

some interesting story to share about the "up-scale" brands in shenzhen

there is this very famous pop singer in HK (kelly chan, one of THE most famous), she had a LV handbag photoed by the taboos. Then teh local LV shop received a few thousand inquiries, with some girls bringing the photo into the shop. the local manager then called Paris to ask (not all merchandise are availabel to all markets).

Eventually, they called the singer out for tea, and offered her sponsorship (LV never sponsor any celebrity in HK) of all LV goods on the condition that she do not use Shenzhen merchandise any more. (she later admitted her grandmom bought it at Shenzhen)

the latest rumous is: LV is producing that handbag! in this case if i am the shenzhen merchant i would sue them for piracy/plaguism!

Pegasus8228: I am salute to you for bring this story (a ring on my head now). I know this story but forgotton to post it.

Yeah! Believe it or not, my mum have different brandname stuff from Fedi (spelling?but it is a real one), LV, Burberry.... but she always say that sometimes the real stuff is not as convinent as the fake or no-brand stuff.

Just like Kelly's bag, it is a CUTE LV "Fabric" bag with design that (possibly from another brand or "designed" by the SZ factory people) that suit girls in HK. Small enough to be cute and portable while just big enough for Moble phone (Hey, a lot smaller than US's counterpart) and other girl stuff like lipstick, etc.. Unlike its real "sister" sometimes to bulky or (please forgive my language, cannot find the right word)... just not Cute!

another little vignette.....

they sell cheap VCD players a couple years back (now DVD players)...some 400RMB (aorund $50).....the funny thing is: after u made the deal (picked the brandless machine, they would ask what brand you like most...then STICK the brand label (e.g. Sony) onto that machine!! i heard they also do this to some handbags...

Pegasus8228...like it! (Hadn't heard that one before...guess I've been travelling way too much in the past 4 years) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Eric the half a bee (edited 01-30-2001).]

Wow. I can't believe that this thread is still going. I actually spent last week in HKG and I'm back. Unfortunately, I did not read anything beyond geo1004's post. Here is what happended.
First, the "bad" news. I was pressed for time and decided to take the one day "Shenzen/Guangzhou" tour mentioned by one of the posters. It was OK, but I was somewhat disappointed as I did not see the outdoor markets in Guangzhou and other things I had hoped for. I guess this reinforces my dislike of tours.
I found Shenzen fascinating. We went to the zoological gardens, the display of the terracotta warriors, and drove past the theme parks, one with a massive 1/3 scale Eiffle Tower. I would like to see these parks with more time.
Incidentally, as an aside, after touring the terracotta warrior museum we we led to the attached "Friendship Store" for some shopping. These used to be owned by the government and may still be, but they are probably the most expensive place in China to shop. Even, here, though, EVERYTHING is negotiable. I was looking at a 3x5 silk rug with a $850US price tag. I am reasonably competent to evaluate these for quality and it was very good. By the time we left, they were offering it to me for $500 US and I had the feeling that I probably could have gotten it down to around $400 if I really wanted to try. I didn't, but in retrospect, I should have.
On to Guanzhou. I was impressed with about 100 miles of residential/commercial development I saw while riding the coach between thw two cities.
I found Guangzhou intertesting for what we saw and the typical CHinese lunch we had a a group. I defintiely found it older, more crowded, and not as clean as Shenzen, but that was to be expected. We were put on the thru train back to HKG first class, which was nice after 11 hours on the road. Incidentally, the cost of this ticket is $190HGD one way, about $25US.
Now for the good news. I can't pass up taking advantage of Continental's $600 EWR-HKG roundtrip and plan tomorrow to book a return, probably, March 28-April 1. I will definitely use one of the days on this next trip to back to China, probably Shenzen for the day.
Thanks everyone for all the nice suggestions.
I plan on doing a full trip report in a few days, once I get back on schedule.
Ed

one day trip must be a rush, buyt glad u enjoyed it ;-)

in your april trip, make sure it does not colide with hk holiday (long weekend, where too many people try to pass the border), but i believe week of 4/1 is fine (but not hte following 2 weeks)

for the carpet and stuff like that, a rule of thumb is at most half the price of simialr product u buy in the state (most likely 1/3). there is no correlation what the 1st quote is (for chinese the quote is usually double the final price, for u foreigner the quote is usually more than double)

now u know the place, u can spend a whole day in those theme parks. the best one is the minority nationality village (which i had not been to)...then window of the world (the effeil that u went), and window of china (miniature china)...do stay there in the evening as there r good live shows!

Pegasus:
Thanks for the input. I suspect that you are right about the weekend of April 1 being a holiday. Before booking the flight, I checked on hotels (I like the YMCA Kowloon). Most hotels (Including the "Y") are full that weekend or have extremely high rates. I have enough flexibility to switch. I'll probably go March 15-18.

in fact, apr 1 is probably not too bad, but the hotel rate does indicates the market demand...
the correlations are: long weekend in hk means congestion at immigration to shenzhen (not neccessarily bad if you only plan to stay in hk though)

however, defintely avoid the easter (4/13-16) if u plan to go to shenzhen/guangzhou

Pegasus .. I always wondered when it comes to things like rugs, carvings etc, HOW much to try and bater down to. A (genuine) brand name watch or Palm Pilot or Laptop etc or camera we all know pretty much what the exact duty free lowball is, but on a rug it really is a guessing game. Try for UNDER half asked price you are saying??

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif


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~ Glen ~

Vulcan:
I took the same one day tour to Shenzen/Guangzhou and settled to see the few terracotta warriors at that museum because I didn't have the time to go to Northern China when I went to Hong Kong. I also found the prices at the Friendship store too high. I want to see the miniature park with the world's wonders. If you see them during your next trip, please give a report.

I will do a report if I go there. I am trying to write a report to post on my recent trip this weekend.
I definitely want to spend some time at the Lo Wu shopping complex and depending how much time is left, go to at least one of the theme parks.
Oz:
I think something like a rug is very subjective. I think I'm fairly well qualified to judge quality, since have a small collection. Assuming the quality is good, then I look at it more like buying a painting and I want something that I will enjoy looking at on the wall for years to come. Of course I want to pay as little as possible, and in my estimation, around $400US for a silk rug that was probably at least 300 lines and about 2 1/2 x4 to 3 x 5 feet in size is a good buy, based on prices/quality in the US and in HKG. I did look in China Arts and Crafts in HKG and the prices for a similar rug in size/quality taht was "on sale" at $5,500HKD(~$700US).
Finally, if I know I'm going to be trapped in the store for 1/2hour, I wouldn't even think of getting serious until the last 2 or 3 minutes. I want the pressure to be on them to make the sale.
AND, If I really thought I got a great deal at $400, as I was completing the sale, I would say " By the way, would you like to do two for $600?" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif You never know.

Vulcan -

I have to bring this great thread back to life. Im planning the same trip and this gave me loads of information.

Dont plan on buying any rugs, but well see.

One question I would like to throw out to the group. Is it true that I can get a visa at the Lo Wu border for my daughter so we can visit Shenzhen on a day trip? I've read where this is possible for 100 HKD. It would certainly be easier than hunting one down in HKG.
Thanks

i myself am not a good bargainer.
for these artifacts you really need to understand the quality.
(under half of what you can get in other countries ia a rule fo thumb, otherwise why bother? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

but if you see the same item across a few different shops, you could benchmark the prices then. but bargaining is a hard topic i have to admit http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif) sometimes they will sell 30 to some customer but insist on 50 for me.....when you bargain hard, also make sure there is no one around (if there are some other potential customers they could charge higher, giving in on you means giving away also for everybody else)

Vulcan has the most painless way of looking at it. Buy it as you would a painting, and you can never go wrong! Coming from the west we often spend 5 minutes trying to beat the poor vendor down $5-10HK (or fill in 20 other currenices in this same space!) that we would think nothing of tipping even at a Wendy's! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

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~ Glen ~

White Swan Hotel is bad because the river is smelled stink. I suggest Garden Hotel.

Vulcan, when I was in Hong Kong, I went to the travel agency located in my hotel to see if they had another one day trip to China that it was not the one that I already had (the Guangzhou one). The travel agent asked me if I needed a visa so they could process it. She was quite surprised that I already had the visa in ORD. So I assume that yes you can get a visa there.

Thanks:
I've been in contact with some FTers in HKG who are looking into the availability of Visa's at Lo Wu. I'm sure I can get it in HKG, but I just thought it would be easier, and faster at the border, if that could be done. I am still awating difinitive word.

I encountered the same thing while there at the end of 1999. My wife and I were looking around and saw a unknown Chinese brand priced higher than a Sony and a Panasonic machine. We were asking each other what features might be present in the unknown brand to make it more expensive than these brand name machines. The shop keeper heard us and said oh, no problem if we liked Sony better, he'd put the Sony label on any of them we would want to buy!

As to visas, we just saw on the local Chinese TV news last night that visas were no longer needed for Shenzhen and Guang Zhou. Don't know if applies to all passports or what other restrictions there are.

Oddly, I heard yesterday from a HKG based FTer who checked rather thoroughly and was told that you CANNOT get one at the Lo Wu border crossing. I am going to try and double check but, this means euither getting it before we go or getting it the same day in Hong Kong for use the next day.

Well, the conflicting advice continues. Following is an email I received from China Travel Service in HKG in response to my email. Note that they say one can get a Visa at Lo Wu for Shenzhen. This is good news.
============================================thanks for your email on 26 february, 2001.
you can apply china visa at my office in hongkong. the regular service take three working days within weekday and the cost is hk$180.00. we also offer one day service within weekday for visa application and the cost is hk$380.00.
of course, you also can apply china visa in your country, and you can get the visa for shenzhen special economic zone at the lo wu border, but we do not have any information, if you would like to have more information of them, you can contact chinese embassy in you country.
with kindly regards.