flyer4512

So you are saying that you called AA, gave your AA number and then zip code and the auto attendant read your info ( miles balances, whatever) and then when you talked to a live agent you found out you were locked ?

If so I have to think many here who are using the method where they call AA. enter their AA # and if NOT transferred to an agent assume they are not blocked may be mistaken.

DVDBob

If true, it seems like the first DP of its kind. So far every other DP I’ve seen or heard has been an immediate transfer after entering the AA# or being matched. I think calling and speaking with a live agent is ultimately the only way to know for sure anyway, but the prompt method was a good preliminary check.

luv2vacay

This is correct. There are folks who have encountered this, where the only true way to know if you are locked is to ask the CSR to look at any notes in your account, upon which the CSR sees the Corp sec notation or whatever. Alternatively, trying to book an award ticket that sits in pending forever (AA metal) or hotels/magazines. Basically the calling in and looking at your account/auto-transfer isn't 100% reliable. Unless you're terminated/shutdown, possibly.

Further, you may not be locked today, but could be locked tomorrow, etc.

IkeEsq

And?

It does not state that Credit Card applications are subject to the terms of the AAdvantage program. And don't even say that that is implied or common sense or anything else, because it is not. It says "for complete details about the . . . program," not "subject to the rules of the . . . program."

This paragraph is meant to make you aware that you can't rely on the current AAdvantage terms to remain in force indefinitely because AA can change them. The implication of which is that when AA devalues miles by changing the reward cost of flights, etc. you can't come back to Citi and claim you were promised a free round-trip flight in the continental U.S. Nothing in this wording or in the AA T&C suggests that applying for the credit card could reasonably subject you to the termination of your AA account along with all miles and status earned through flying, purchase, gift, purchases on partners, or credit card spend.

mhdena

Can you please start this?

GUWonder

There is zero chance of the US banking regulators using this AA issue to apply any real pressure on Citi anytime soon over shutdown AA accounts. Even as the US DOT is more captured by the US airlines than the Federal Reserve and other US banking industry regulators are captured by Citi, the idea of the US banking regulators doing much of anything over this kind of situation is about as believable as the existence of Santa Claus flying in the air on a gift-laden sled dragged through the skies by flying reindeer. While I may wish for it to be otherwise, wishful thinking or scare stories about the consequences of this situation and card applicant behavior won’t change the way our regulators operate currently.

GUWonder

While I agree, there are plenty of people that think there’s funny business going on when told that signing up for a bunch of credit cards and getting the sign-up bonuses from normal spending activity on five very different bank cards could get them a week-long miles and points paid vacation to Europe. And if I tell this to my contacts in the developing world about what goes on in America in this regard, they often default to thinking something crazy is going on and there is some kind of corruption going on.

If someone wants to know if the AA account is shutdown in any sort of way, isn’t one way of finding out to just try to donate a few miles to an AA partner charity from aa.com and see what happens?

flyer4512

Or booking a hotel and car rental like I did

Happy

Very true. US is a very unique, saturated credit card market. Even our closest neighboring country Canada, does not have these many incentives to entice qualified consumers to open new credit cards.

Probably not, as that mechanism has been tried and reported elsewhere. It most probably is due to the miles deduction is not instant, but in a process that would be stopped at the point where the miles would be deducted, but can't be due to the balance is frozen, inaccessible. Same can be said about redeeming for a gift card as normally it is a 10 days process regardless.

Trying to book a hotel or to pay for a rental car but met with an error message as reported here and elsewhere, is sure indicator of account being locked. Trying to ticket an AA metal award booking but the booking not getting ticketed in the usual few hours, is another indicator.

Reporting elsewhere there were EXPs had no idea of the fiasco, they just called in on unrelated matters, such as on existing reservations, then being told by the agents their accounts were under review, i.e. notes from corporate security dept in their accounts. One such incident the poster was totally not aware what was going on. He called on something totally unrelated but then was told by the agent his account was under review. He later put thru an award reservation on AA metal, and thought his account was fine due to award reservation went thru, at pending... Yet the reservation is never ticketed after over 30 hours... a very good sign his account is locked.

IkeEsq

No one except AA, who will shut you down with no explanation or recourse. That is the entire problem. Everyone with half a brain expected Citi to shut down the train eventually. No one I know of ever expected AA to do so. Certainly, no one expected AA to do it in such a poorly defined and heavy-handed fashion. There are multiple reports of people doing less than what you describe (opening one of each available card) getting locked or shutdown.

Honestly, what does AA even gain from this? If you don't make it clear why you are shutting people down, it leaves everyone wondering what is OK and what is not. The only deterrent this causes is a deterrent from using your program as uncertainty is going to lead people who have the choice to use an airline that is more stable and whose rules are understandable.

More importantly, where is the financial reward? Let's assume that they cancel 1000 people with an average of 1,000,000 miles each (which is probably a very serious stretch). That's 1 billion miles. Which is what, 0.1% of outstanding miles (as of 4 years ago)? Barely even a drop in the bucket. And how much does that save AA? At $35 cost per 25,000 reward that is a whooping $1,400,000 saved. AA execs can retire now, they just raised annual profit by 0.014%! Stock is going to hit $60 on this news. Or maybe you want to use the 1 mile = $0.005 and they save $5,000,000, increasing the year's profit by 0.05% That is what is known as rounding error.

Troopers

I agree that applying/approval/use of the card is not subject to AA T&C’s.

Now separate that from accruing miles, which is subject to AA T&C’s.

akr1970akr

There are all kinds of enforcement actions that organizations take that cost more than what they save, but they do them for the sake of program integrity. Our local light rail system spends 10-15mm on transit officers who check whether fares are paid, and maybe write 2mm a year in summons/trespasses to violaters. So in theory it looks like they should not do this, but if they didn't the nature of the passengers would change, and no one would pay, making the system worse over time for everyone. When they poll passengers and the transit board, everyone is in favor of some kind of enforcement, to give the rules some meaning.

=========

That doesn't mean that I agree with what Citi/AA did here. I think they are a bit crazy/cruel, and hope there is some kind of regulatory response. I don't understand how they can sell a product (AA miles) to customers directly, or banks indirectly, and then just casually vaporize them in their own sole & absolute control. It doesn't matter if their T&C state they can do that; that just doesn't seem to me to be anything that would allowable under many states consumer laws. If a company stated in their fine print that any gift card bought could be zeroed out like that, would states attorney generals be ok with that? I don't think so.

And AA - among others - has been selling these miles non stop, printing them like a hyperactive Venezuelan central banker.

IkeEsq

That's the thing. If AA was making a statement, then the cost would be largely irrelevant. But they are instead looking like a bunch of two-bit thugs stranding people at Christmas, leaving people wondering if their tickets will be honored, and preventing innocent people from using their miles. All the while they are unable to provide a rational basis for their actions which seem to be a ridiculous interpretation of their T&Cs and out-of-proportion to the crimes relative to what has happened to people who violated the black-and-white letter of the T&Cs.

I think that ultimately they are going to get some blowback from this and their meager savings are going to pale in comparison. If someone takes a good look at Citi and/or AA or congress decides to start regulating FF programs I think you can say goodbye to AA, if they don't self-destruct before then.

fttc

Please, if you want to engage in logical arguments, provide logic. Otherwise, everyone knows your opinion. There is no point rehashing your opinion alone anymore.

I asked you earlier too, and you keep on citing blank T&C without any details. The T&C only states that AA believes that it can do whatever it wants. It does not specify multiple SUB are not allowed, so there is nothing related to compliance here. Those are completely two separate concepts.

fttc

I'm not sure AA is cancelling many tickets yet. I thought it let most people complete their travels. Any new insights from reddit? The way I see it, there are probably more protections associated with issued award tickets than miles in the accounts. That's probably also why AA let those go, not because it wants to be nice, rather there is more risk/cost associated in cancelling people's tickets.