Dec 18, 2019, 12:31 pm
Last edit by: wyogold
Related discussions in other Flyertalk forums:
AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn
How to know if you're locked: (as of 12/22/2019)
- Call in to aadvantage reservations (800-882-8880) If you locked, you'll be forwarded to customer service instead of getting to the automated reservations system
- If you want to stay on the line, ask CSR if your account is locked (you tried to make a reservation but it wouldn't let you). CSR will inform you there's a note on your account and that corporate security will contact you
- Try to make a reservation for a super cheap hotel through useaamiles.com. There are 1000 miles / night hotels in New Delhi, so at worst you'll risk 1K miles. If you're locked, you'll see "Unable to process points. Please call our customer service for assistance."
So far, nobody seems to have gotten unlocked and gotten access to their miles back. Accounts with upcoming travel seem to be the ones that are getting terminated at the highest rate.
AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn
How to know if you're locked: (as of 12/22/2019)
- Call in to aadvantage reservations (800-882-8880) If you locked, you'll be forwarded to customer service instead of getting to the automated reservations system
- If you want to stay on the line, ask CSR if your account is locked (you tried to make a reservation but it wouldn't let you). CSR will inform you there's a note on your account and that corporate security will contact you
- Try to make a reservation for a super cheap hotel through useaamiles.com. There are 1000 miles / night hotels in New Delhi, so at worst you'll risk 1K miles. If you're locked, you'll see "Unable to process points. Please call our customer service for assistance."
So far, nobody seems to have gotten unlocked and gotten access to their miles back. Accounts with upcoming travel seem to be the ones that are getting terminated at the highest rate.
AA accounts restricted (Nov/Dec 2019)
Jul 13, 2020, 9:18 pm
#3406
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
given AA's position on what the fraudsters did, why are they willing to give them anything and settle? any speculation here?
other reasons the complainant might dismiss the complaint? That the complainant feels in over her head or may have an example made of her by how much AA claims she owes AA?
My speculation if there is indeed a settlement where AA gave her anything is: "drop your case and for ONE account we'll give you back whatever miles that weren't credit card sign up bonus miles."
Otherwise I don't see why AA would give her squat for any of her accounts associated with her 45 cards..
other reasons the complainant might dismiss the complaint? That the complainant feels in over her head or may have an example made of her by how much AA claims she owes AA?
My speculation if there is indeed a settlement where AA gave her anything is: "drop your case and for ONE account we'll give you back whatever miles that weren't credit card sign up bonus miles."
Otherwise I don't see why AA would give her squat for any of her accounts associated with her 45 cards..
AA is a business. They fired a non-profitable set of customers who were - at the very least - trying to take advantage of them or - at the very most - scamming them out of tens of thousands of dollars per customer.
Jul 13, 2020, 11:36 pm
#3407
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Orange County, CA, USA
Programs: AA (Life Plat), Marriott (Life Titanium) and every other US program
Posts: 6,411
More likely that the fraudster dismissed her SCC Complaint for the same reasons as her DOT Complaint. There was no need to sue AA if there was a settlement and it is not as though AA was not paying attention to this. If the deal was: "I'll dismiss my DOT complaint if you reinstate my FFP and pay me something" all that took was a letter counter-signed by the parties.
With lawyers on both sides of the matter, no need to go through the charade of an SCC action.
I'
With lawyers on both sides of the matter, no need to go through the charade of an SCC action.
I'
It is unfortunate (for both AA and the customers) that AA allowed this type of conduct to continue for so long without enforcement. It makes me suspect that AA might have actually, at one time, chosen to condone this conduct by ignoring it. BUT, having taken the position that it was closing hundreds(?) of accounts for related conduct, they are NOT going to be settling with SCC cases for reinstatement of anything.
Jul 13, 2020, 11:42 pm
#3408
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,477
1. "Non-Profitable" AA management would not agree with that. Even at the last shareholder meeting they credited mile sales to Citibank as the only profitable part of their enterprise. Citi then distributed those miles to their customers -- and that transaction did not involve AA. If Citi had limited the transfer to 1 SUB per person, that would be profitable to AA without debates. How would that math change if repeated 4 times?
2. Firing Customers. Any business can do it, and it doesn't involve robbery on the way out. In our case it seems like robbery was the objective, and firing incidental to the former. I suspect that some extreme outlier customers (like Ms Borges & family) were truly unprofitable, and will be used by AA to muddy the water.
Jul 14, 2020, 1:23 am
#3409
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,313
I love when people post obvious sarcasm, like this post, and then other people act as though the post is serious. Just for those who don't understand, Often1 was making fun of the idea that AA would even consider entering into a settlement here.
It is unfortunate (for both AA and the customers) that AA allowed this type of conduct to continue for so long without enforcement. It makes me suspect that AA might have actually, at one time, chosen to condone this conduct by ignoring it. BUT, having taken the position that it was closing hundreds(?) of accounts for related conduct, they are NOT going to be settling with SCC cases for reinstatement of anything.
It is unfortunate (for both AA and the customers) that AA allowed this type of conduct to continue for so long without enforcement. It makes me suspect that AA might have actually, at one time, chosen to condone this conduct by ignoring it. BUT, having taken the position that it was closing hundreds(?) of accounts for related conduct, they are NOT going to be settling with SCC cases for reinstatement of anything.
I couldn't figure out why AA would settle, glad to know I thought right.
Jul 14, 2020, 10:24 am
#3410
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,203
These kinds of activities are fair game against AA. They are engaged in fraud and misrepresentation against consumers by advertising miles that they later devalue through arbitrary changes in award pricing, limitation of saver award seats,..
Last edited by hoipolloi; Jul 14, 2020 at 10:33 am
Jul 14, 2020, 10:42 am
#3411
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Im surprised you didnt include that AA doesnt have the right to CX a route eg PHL-PRG since you were planning on using award tkts in 2021 to go there
A long standing motto on FT has been for decades Earn & Burn and dont save them up
Jul 14, 2020, 10:48 am
#3412
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
There are 2 issues with this statement.
1. "Non-Profitable" AA management would not agree with that. Even at the last shareholder meeting they credited mile sales to Citibank as the only profitable part of their enterprise. Citi then distributed those miles to their customers -- and that transaction did not involve AA. If Citi had limited the transfer to 1 SUB per person, that would be profitable to AA without debates. How would that math change if repeated 4 times?
2. Firing Customers. Any business can do it, and it doesn't involve robbery on the way out. In our case it seems like robbery was the objective, and firing incidental to the former. I suspect that some extreme outlier customers (like Ms Borges & family) were truly unprofitable, and will be used by AA to muddy the water.
1. "Non-Profitable" AA management would not agree with that. Even at the last shareholder meeting they credited mile sales to Citibank as the only profitable part of their enterprise. Citi then distributed those miles to their customers -- and that transaction did not involve AA. If Citi had limited the transfer to 1 SUB per person, that would be profitable to AA without debates. How would that math change if repeated 4 times?
2. Firing Customers. Any business can do it, and it doesn't involve robbery on the way out. In our case it seems like robbery was the objective, and firing incidental to the former. I suspect that some extreme outlier customers (like Ms Borges & family) were truly unprofitable, and will be used by AA to muddy the water.
2. AA did not rob anyone. They applied the rules.
And because you brought it up, think of cases like yours (based on your posts)...
- Multiple cards, multiple SUBs.
- Churn with Money Orders at Walmart.
- Churn using GiftCardMall
- Get shutdown and forfeit miles.
- Complain it is not fair your miles got taken away.
Jul 14, 2020, 11:04 am
#3413
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,631
That statement is incorrect. They shut down many people whose actions similar to this blogger: https://www.middleagemiles.com/2020/...dot-complaint/
That statement is also incorrect.
That statement is also incorrect.
Jul 14, 2020, 11:41 am
#3414
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
But, to be clear. There is no earthly reason why AA would spend $ thousands mounting a defense before DOT and then settle for cash and a couple of miles in some SCC. While the fraudster may have enjoyed playing games, large enterprises such as AA don't litigate for the fun of it. They evaluate the risk of contesting a matter (including not only cash but also brand damage, legal costs) and settle or not. Here, there was zero reason to settle.
In fact, AA not only "won" the immediate case against this fraudster, but has surely deterred all but the most hardy from this sort of conduct going forward.
Jul 14, 2020, 12:24 pm
#3415
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
That statement is incorrect. They shut down many people whose actions similar to this blogger: https://www.middleagemiles.com/2020/...dot-complaint/
That statement is also incorrect.
That statement is also incorrect.
As for your link, are you are defending the 45-card Borges? Yes, many people are like them were shut down.
Or are you referring to the link to the apology thread when they admit they led people astray with their bad advice?
Or are you referring to the author as a 'victim'... the one that applied for and received 4 IDENTICAL Citi AA Platinum cards over 15 months using mailers addressed to OTHER PEOPLE in the household?
I doubt you will ever find a sympathetic judge that will believe you are entitled to miles from SUBs from IDENTICAL cards approved using other people's mailers. It doesn't pass the sniff test.
Jul 14, 2020, 2:27 pm
#3416
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,477
I predict we're getting close for certain transportation exec's to make an encore begging trip to the Treasury. That would explain why AA is acting overly aggressive in discouraging complaints and lawsuits. Such begging trips are a prime chance to put pax grievances on the table. If there are any lawsuits with enough merit (of which I'm not yet convinced), now would be a good time work on them as well. You can tell that the airline's case is weak, when they start going personal and call names (e.g. "fraudsters").
Jul 14, 2020, 2:40 pm
#3417
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
I predict we're getting close for certain transportation exec's to make an encore begging trip to the Treasury. That would explain why AA is acting overly aggressive in discouraging complaints and lawsuits. Such begging trips are a prime chance to put pax grievances on the table. If there are any lawsuits with enough merit (of which I'm not yet convinced), now would be a good time work on them as well. You can tell that the airline's case is weak, when they start going personal and call names (e.g. "fraudsters").
Jul 14, 2020, 2:49 pm
#3418
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 805
Saying a statement is incorrect without any POV to back it up is not very helpful. But, from your posts in the churning threads, I think we can all understand your POV.
As for your link, are you are defending the 45-card Borges? Yes, many people are like them were shut down.
Or are you referring to the link to the apology thread when they admit they led people astray with their bad advice?
Or are you referring to the author as a 'victim'... the one that applied for and received 4 IDENTICAL Citi AA Platinum cards over 15 months using mailers addressed to OTHER PEOPLE in the household?
I doubt you will ever find a sympathetic judge that will believe you are entitled to miles from SUBs from IDENTICAL cards approved using other people's mailers. It doesn't pass the sniff test.
As for your link, are you are defending the 45-card Borges? Yes, many people are like them were shut down.
Or are you referring to the link to the apology thread when they admit they led people astray with their bad advice?
Or are you referring to the author as a 'victim'... the one that applied for and received 4 IDENTICAL Citi AA Platinum cards over 15 months using mailers addressed to OTHER PEOPLE in the household?
I doubt you will ever find a sympathetic judge that will believe you are entitled to miles from SUBs from IDENTICAL cards approved using other people's mailers. It doesn't pass the sniff test.
The mailers used didn’t explicitly break any rules and having 4 of the same card doesn’t break any laws, nor does having 45 cards.
Jul 14, 2020, 3:05 pm
#3419
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Not worth relitigating the same issue again. This one is officially dead. Shutdowns won't be reinstated, nobody is going to get reinstated or collect a nickel, and perhaps AA and Citi will monitor more closely to shut people down faster in future.
