Dec 18, 2019, 12:31 pm
Last edit by: wyogold
Related discussions in other Flyertalk forums:
AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn
How to know if you're locked: (as of 12/22/2019)
- Call in to aadvantage reservations (800-882-8880) If you locked, you'll be forwarded to customer service instead of getting to the automated reservations system
- If you want to stay on the line, ask CSR if your account is locked (you tried to make a reservation but it wouldn't let you). CSR will inform you there's a note on your account and that corporate security will contact you
- Try to make a reservation for a super cheap hotel through useaamiles.com. There are 1000 miles / night hotels in New Delhi, so at worst you'll risk 1K miles. If you're locked, you'll see "Unable to process points. Please call our customer service for assistance."
So far, nobody seems to have gotten unlocked and gotten access to their miles back. Accounts with upcoming travel seem to be the ones that are getting terminated at the highest rate.
AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn
How to know if you're locked: (as of 12/22/2019)
- Call in to aadvantage reservations (800-882-8880) If you locked, you'll be forwarded to customer service instead of getting to the automated reservations system
- If you want to stay on the line, ask CSR if your account is locked (you tried to make a reservation but it wouldn't let you). CSR will inform you there's a note on your account and that corporate security will contact you
- Try to make a reservation for a super cheap hotel through useaamiles.com. There are 1000 miles / night hotels in New Delhi, so at worst you'll risk 1K miles. If you're locked, you'll see "Unable to process points. Please call our customer service for assistance."
So far, nobody seems to have gotten unlocked and gotten access to their miles back. Accounts with upcoming travel seem to be the ones that are getting terminated at the highest rate.
AA accounts restricted (Nov/Dec 2019)
Feb 20, 2020, 6:47 pm
#2701
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
Do you have several data points of people who have many SUBs, not using any (e)mailer addressed to anyone else, who are not shut down? If not, then it doesn't really disprove anything.
I have a lot of blue shirts but that doesn't prove (or even suggest) that all shirts are blue.
I have a lot of blue shirts but that doesn't prove (or even suggest) that all shirts are blue.
You have every right to believe or not believe. It does not change the facts. (It is why I showed only the DPs from FT... so you could check for yourself.)
Feb 20, 2020, 7:00 pm
#2702
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
To be perfectly blunt, we are not interested in the "/r/aa_shutdown" thread. While it does have some data, it is equally about how wronged people are. Again, no judgment, but also it has all been said many times over.
As for the criteria, let's keep it simple and verifiable... look at the last several DPs in this thread and here only (so everyone can check):
So each data point has 3 or more SUBs PLUS another "violation". Not one here has only SUBs as a criterion. (Again, ignoring the I know a guy" reports for now.)
We are over 1100 verified DPs. (Full disclosure - Well over 600 are open/ non-suspended accounts with SUBs.) DPs are collected from multiple threads and duplicates removed.
Be skeptical if you would like, but the data here on FT (as well as our 400+ terminated/suspended DPs elsewhere) supports our criteria (mentioned above) and disproves the SUB only theory.
As for the criteria, let's keep it simple and verifiable... look at the last several DPs in this thread and here only (so everyone can check):
- 6-8 SUBS - used mailer with someone else's name.
- 5 SUBs -used mailer with someone else's name and fake account
- 6 SUBs - stated only used correct mailers. Later stated used other mailers and churned.
- 2 with no specific except saying multiple same CC.
- Every 40 days for 18 months - used family mailers
- Every 40 days for 2 years, churning before 8 years 2 accounts
So each data point has 3 or more SUBs PLUS another "violation". Not one here has only SUBs as a criterion. (Again, ignoring the I know a guy" reports for now.)
We are over 1100 verified DPs. (Full disclosure - Well over 600 are open/ non-suspended accounts with SUBs.) DPs are collected from multiple threads and duplicates removed.
Be skeptical if you would like, but the data here on FT (as well as our 400+ terminated/suspended DPs elsewhere) supports our criteria (mentioned above) and disproves the SUB only theory.
While I don’t have any doubt that AA shutdown accounts (by suspending or terminating accounts) based on what AA considered and found to be program violations, the selection of people reporting DPs to the “we” group may also not be free of the problem of “how representative of the whole set of ____ are these volunteering suppliers of the accumulated DPs”.
Feb 20, 2020, 8:04 pm
#2703
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
Who is “we” in the above? And for what are the supplied data points being verified, and how are the supplied data points verified?
While I don’t have any doubt that AA shutdown accounts (by suspending or terminating accounts) based on what AA considered and found to be program violations, the selection of people reporting DPs to the “we” group may also not be free of the problem of “how representative of the whole set of ____ are these volunteering suppliers of the accumulated DPs”.
While I don’t have any doubt that AA shutdown accounts (by suspending or terminating accounts) based on what AA considered and found to be program violations, the selection of people reporting DPs to the “we” group may also not be free of the problem of “how representative of the whole set of ____ are these volunteering suppliers of the accumulated DPs”.
I will admit verified might be a bit strong. When someone reports a DP on one the various sites we DM/PM only some folks, when it is not clear what happened. (Cross-referencing posts usually gives a more accurate story.)
Fair enough about how representative any group of DPs are; no one knows for sure. Of course FT DPs supports our theory, so there is that. And, in terms of bias, that is the problem with "/r/aa_shutdown"; is it is full of terminated folks with an ax to grind and a reason to push the 'I did nothing wrong' story.
Non-terminated accounts – we reached out through a private travel list and asked about Citi SUBs and account status.
Given that EVEN the FT data points support what I have been posting for over a month, I am somewhat surprised at the pushback.
Feb 20, 2020, 8:14 pm
#2706
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MSP
Programs: DL, BA, AA
Posts: 270
AA has no justification for confiscating those miles.
There probably was some kind of an internal spat between AA and Citibank over this. And Citibank went persona non grata and said this is your problem AA.
Pressure needs to be put on Citibank as well to resolve this. You might want to send complaint letters, maybe even a CFPB complaint and certainly include them in any small claims action if you get to that.
Feb 20, 2020, 8:16 pm
#2707
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 255
Feb 21, 2020, 7:06 am
#2709
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 746
No longer relevant.
Last edited by OssianBlue; Jul 6, 2020 at 6:49 pm
Feb 21, 2020, 7:08 am
#2710
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 746
No longer relevant.
Last edited by OssianBlue; Jul 6, 2020 at 6:49 pm
Feb 21, 2020, 7:20 am
#2711
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 805
Who cares? At this point it doesn't matter whether one group considers using mailers a "violation" or not. All that matters is everyone who didn't directly violate the T&Cs band together and stick it to AA.
Feb 21, 2020, 8:16 am
#2712
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2
Are you looking at lifetime miles earned at all?
Feb 21, 2020, 9:13 am
#2713
Join Date: May 2014
Location: LAX
Programs: AA, UA, DL, NSA, CIA, MIB
Posts: 537
Absolutely correct. All accounts were approved by Citibank. All miles were issued by Citibank after meeting all criteria including spending. By approving your card and issuing your miles they have confirmed that you were eligible to receive them. Furthermore, they have not closed your account down or cited any violations.
AA has no justification for confiscating those miles.
There probably was some kind of an internal spat between AA and Citibank over this. And Citibank went persona non grata and said this is your problem AA.
Pressure needs to be put on Citibank as well to resolve this. You might want to send complaint letters, maybe even a CFPB complaint and certainly include them in any small claims action if you get to that.
AA has no justification for confiscating those miles.
There probably was some kind of an internal spat between AA and Citibank over this. And Citibank went persona non grata and said this is your problem AA.
Pressure needs to be put on Citibank as well to resolve this. You might want to send complaint letters, maybe even a CFPB complaint and certainly include them in any small claims action if you get to that.
I wondered if maybe all Citi bankers have been informed about all the AA accounts being closed. Perhaps letting Citi know through their survey system or direct emails might bring some extra (needed) attention to what has been done.
Yes, I did also use 2 mailers last year that was sent to my home for the SUB. Also, I have a Barclay AA card which I've had for over 5 years and was using it for normal spending. I even flew to Italy last April on a paid AA ticket just to accumulate more miles. The plan was to build up AA miles to use after I retire next spring 2021 for travel. I went from 560k to ZERO. Now I have nothing.
Feb 21, 2020, 9:30 am
#2714
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: East or West
Posts: 388
I walk into a store and know a way around their security system,, since they just redid it and left a bunch of holes.I load my pockets with goods and walkout with the known run around if caught afterwards weeks or months later when they start to review the tapes to try and find out why their goods are gone while sales dont merit it. I guess its tough luck on that biz they have no right to come after me since they were the ones who set up the system (not discussing if its legal or not just the merits)
BTW how can AA steal whats theirs in the 1st place, their T&Cs state that the miles in your acct belongs to them and not the person
BTW how can AA steal whats theirs in the 1st place, their T&Cs state that the miles in your acct belongs to them and not the person
Feb 21, 2020, 9:37 am
#2715
Join Date: May 2014
Location: LAX
Programs: AA, UA, DL, NSA, CIA, MIB
Posts: 537
I'd say it's more like a store set up a free sample basket of Snickers at checkout and has a sign that says limited to 1 per person, yet the same 2 people go every day for a couple samples and the clerk doesn't stop them (either because they don't care or don't know about the rule). Eventually the store implements a coupon system, but then the same guy gets coupons from other people and still takes a lot of Snickers, maybe even more than before since they now have wads of coupons, again with a clerk who doesn't know or doesn't care. Then at some point Mars looks at their books and says why are we sending so many Snickers to this one store, so they go back and review the tapes and say hey it's the same couple guys. They then coordinate with SWAT to raid the offenders' pantries and clear out the kitchens.