cheaptom

No doubt. But I wonder if some DOT workers who skim these complaints are beginning to notice a bunch of "AA terminated my miles" complaints. One or two or even dozens won't get on the DOT's radar I bet, but if they keep coming...who knows.

joe_miami

The DOT is unlikely to care regardless of the volume, but I bet there will prove to be a weakness in numbers in this case as far as recourse. If AA terminated only a few people, it might be easy to find a sympathetic judge somewhere who sees it as the big company picking on the little guy. But if AA shows a pattern across thousands of people, the individuals start looking less sympathetic. That�s why I�m surprised there are still no known lawsuits.

VegasGambler

That is boilerplate. The DOT has no authority to order compensation. They do, however, have authority to take enforcement action against the airline (ie, fine them). What will happen then is essentially a negotiation between the airline and the DOT -- the DOT may offer reduced (or no) fines if the airline offers compensation to everyone involved. They will also order the airline to cease and desist from violating their regulations.

This will not be done for an individual case, but it is something that DOT will start to investigate if they get many similar complaints. This is why it is important that everyone who gets shut down files a DOT complaint. It is the only way to get the DOT to investigate this. The DOT will definitely have a problem with there being a pattern of AA unilaterally shutting down accounts and confiscating miles for no defensible reason -- this constitutes unfair and deceptive business practices. More complaints makes it more likely that the DOT investigates this thoroughly.

joe_miami

What, in DOT�s history, gives you this level
of confidence? Has anyone found a single example of DOT caring about FF accounts being terminated?

VegasGambler

I'm unaware of any airline doing anything like this before. This is uncharted territory.

The DOT has, in previous EOs, said that confiscating miles would constitute unfair and deceptive business practices if it were done for an unfair reason. So all that's left is to argue that the people who opened credit card accounts (as AA encouraged them to do) did nothing wrong.

I think AA has bitten off more than they can chew here...

mia

The difficulty with relying on DOT investigation is that AA does have reasons, and if there are only two parties in the room (AA, DOT) there is no one to challenge the evidence and reasoning that support AA's decision. You may think their reasons are weak, but unless there is someone there to challenge they are likely to be sufficient. "Some people created dummy frequent flyer accounts for the purpose of opening additional credit card accounts and receive bonuses intended for new customers."

Often1

The chances that DOT is going to take an enforcement action based on the AA response is close to nil. It doesn't really matter how many people complain. If anything, DOT will order a systemic remedy, e.g., ordering carriers (not just AA) to develop systems to preclude the conduct which AA found abusive here. DOT could also forward its own report to the CFPB and other financial regulators asking the regulators to consider doing the same with card issuers and directing card issuers to take a careful look at when and why multiple cards of any flavor are issued.

VegasGambler

This is why the DOT claims are important; they give you a chance to tell your side of the story. If AA responds claiming that you acted fraudulently and abusively, respond back and ask for specifics. Deny that you acted fraudulently and abusively. Claim that they unilaterally confiscated miles as a result of false claims, which constitutes unfair and deceptive business practices. Get them to commit to specific (not vauge) accusations, and, if their allegations are false, focus on that. If they are true, focus on how they are not fraudulent and abusive.

mia

Do DOT rules require airlines to respond to follow-up statements, or only to the original complaint?

catsfroggy1

6 million AA miles are worth around $60,000.

VegasGambler

So, file a new complaint. You are complaining to the DOT, not to the airline.

VegasGambler

They charge a lot more than that for them...

nomiiiii

You're wrong here - there was actually a limit to 3 attempts. I know because I tried a code with last name combo and made the same typing error 3 times in my last name (turns out my mac's N key was broken). After the 3rd attempt, that code became invalid for use even after I tried it from a different working computer.

sethMCOflyer

I don't believe they require a follow up statement however the DOT has what seems like a case administrator that looks over the complaints and responses. So if AA says "you weren't profitable to us so we cancelled your tickets" and you respond "that doesn't seem legal" it might be in their best interest to respond instead of letting the DOT purse enforcement and fines.

Finkface

I am not wrong - I was not posting the process itself as fact, I was merely describing the process that the now-deleted post laid out. I described what was posted accurately (I have a screenshot) and that was what was stated in that post. They clearly said there was no Captcha or similar that limited the number of attempts. I have no idea if that is true or not as I did not, and would not, attempt to generate fake codes. But I am not wrong in what I posted as I was only repeating what was claimed in the original post.

And in any case, you were trying the same code three times, which is what likely caused that code to be invalidated. Those generating fake codes were trying different codes each time so each code was only tried once until they got a match. Hence the no limit claim. Different scenario.