Dec 18, 2019, 12:31 pm
Last edit by: wyogold
Related discussions in other Flyertalk forums:
AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn
How to know if you're locked: (as of 12/22/2019)
- Call in to aadvantage reservations (800-882-8880) If you locked, you'll be forwarded to customer service instead of getting to the automated reservations system
- If you want to stay on the line, ask CSR if your account is locked (you tried to make a reservation but it wouldn't let you). CSR will inform you there's a note on your account and that corporate security will contact you
- Try to make a reservation for a super cheap hotel through useaamiles.com. There are 1000 miles / night hotels in New Delhi, so at worst you'll risk 1K miles. If you're locked, you'll see "Unable to process points. Please call our customer service for assistance."
So far, nobody seems to have gotten unlocked and gotten access to their miles back. Accounts with upcoming travel seem to be the ones that are getting terminated at the highest rate.
AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn
How to know if you're locked: (as of 12/22/2019)
- Call in to aadvantage reservations (800-882-8880) If you locked, you'll be forwarded to customer service instead of getting to the automated reservations system
- If you want to stay on the line, ask CSR if your account is locked (you tried to make a reservation but it wouldn't let you). CSR will inform you there's a note on your account and that corporate security will contact you
- Try to make a reservation for a super cheap hotel through useaamiles.com. There are 1000 miles / night hotels in New Delhi, so at worst you'll risk 1K miles. If you're locked, you'll see "Unable to process points. Please call our customer service for assistance."
So far, nobody seems to have gotten unlocked and gotten access to their miles back. Accounts with upcoming travel seem to be the ones that are getting terminated at the highest rate.
AA accounts restricted (Nov/Dec 2019)
Feb 8, 2020, 11:42 am
#2341
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC (LGA, JFK), CT
Programs: Delta Platinum, American Gold, JetBlue Mosaic 4, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Diamond,
Posts: 4,885
It's basically the gathered wisdom of the private Reddit forum--AA seems to be implementing a 4 SUBs from Citi threshold and applying it to everyone, eventually. We're not sure of how their timing works.
The only exceptions from this are people with less than 4 SUBs who have been shutdown when a 4 SUB person is in the same household.
There is no other explanatory variable we can determine and not a single case of a 4 SUB person locked who has been unlocked.
Edit: Just to be clear, we're talking a range of people from 4 SUBs all from public offers directly mailed to them mailers to people with 15+ cards.
The only exceptions from this are people with less than 4 SUBs who have been shutdown when a 4 SUB person is in the same household.
There is no other explanatory variable we can determine and not a single case of a 4 SUB person locked who has been unlocked.
Edit: Just to be clear, we're talking a range of people from 4 SUBs all from public offers directly mailed to them mailers to people with 15+ cards.
Feb 8, 2020, 12:10 pm
#2343
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA
Posts: 2,983
DP: account terminated and award booking cancelled within 24 hours of travel. I had booked WN backup tickets fortunately. I have been locked for at least a month. I tried to book an award ticket that wouldn't ticket. In the past two years, I received 4 SUBs from Citi personal cards (mailers addressed to family members) and one from Citi business (public link). No Barclays. If someone is so kind as to PM me with the points I need to make in my DOT complaint to address the boilerplate response AA is providing, I would appreciate it.
Feb 8, 2020, 12:41 pm
#2344
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 805
AA has begun replying to the DOT complaints, the relevant portion is quoted below. I find it interesting that they're implying that those who they're shutting down have misrepresented themselves in order to sign up for a bunch of Citi cards. They're really backing themselves into a corner with the excuse but I'm not sure the corner they're in will hold up.
The biggest thing I see is when cancelling award tickets they keep referencing an exploitative booking practice, when everyone booked tickets in the exact manner they intended using their website or calling in. But now they're tacking on verbiage to say the exploitative booking process was that the miles used were ineligible. This would imply that customers have misrepresented themselves to Citi and thus the miles Citi has deposited are ineligible, however Citi has been responding to CFPB complaints saying they have nothing to do with the shut down and deposited the miles as agreed.
The biggest thing I see is when cancelling award tickets they keep referencing an exploitative booking practice, when everyone booked tickets in the exact manner they intended using their website or calling in. But now they're tacking on verbiage to say the exploitative booking process was that the miles used were ineligible. This would imply that customers have misrepresented themselves to Citi and thus the miles Citi has deposited are ineligible, however Citi has been responding to CFPB complaints saying they have nothing to do with the shut down and deposited the miles as agreed.
By participating in the AAdvantage program, and each time they log in to their account on AA.com, every member agrees to abide by the terms and conditions of the AAdvantage Program. These terms clearly state:
Fraud, misrepresentation, abuse or violation of applicable rules (including, but not limited to, American or American Eagle® conditions of carriage, tariffs and AAdvantage® program rules) is subject to administrative and/or legal action by appropriate governmental authorities and American Airlines. Such action may include, without limitation, the forfeiture of all award tickets and any accrued mileage in a member's account, as well as termination of the account and the member's future participation in the AAdvantage® program. If your account is terminated due to inappropriate conduct or while under investigation, you may not open a new AAdvantage® account or participate in the AAdvantage® Program in any capacity without obtaining the express written permission of American Airlines. In addition, American Airlines reserves the right to take appropriate legal action to recover damages, including its attorneys' fees incurred in prosecuting any lawsuit.
From the conditions of carriage:
Your ticket is not valid when:
· We find that the ticket was bought using an exploitative practice
Upon a detailed investigation, the member was determined to have engaged in fraudulent, abusive, and/or exploitive practices through misrepresentation, to accrue a considerable amount of ineligible bonus miles. This member was not engaged in an equitable relationship with AA, rather, a systematic pattern of abuse that has caused substantial damage to the integrity of AAdvantage Program. These actions have forced us to exercise our right to prevent future losses by terminating the account(s) involved, as well as any future program eligibility. As such, at the time of termination all miles, awards, or associated benefits were removed. They are no longer eligible to participate in the AAdvantage Program.
Fraud, misrepresentation, abuse or violation of applicable rules (including, but not limited to, American or American Eagle® conditions of carriage, tariffs and AAdvantage® program rules) is subject to administrative and/or legal action by appropriate governmental authorities and American Airlines. Such action may include, without limitation, the forfeiture of all award tickets and any accrued mileage in a member's account, as well as termination of the account and the member's future participation in the AAdvantage® program. If your account is terminated due to inappropriate conduct or while under investigation, you may not open a new AAdvantage® account or participate in the AAdvantage® Program in any capacity without obtaining the express written permission of American Airlines. In addition, American Airlines reserves the right to take appropriate legal action to recover damages, including its attorneys' fees incurred in prosecuting any lawsuit.
From the conditions of carriage:
Your ticket is not valid when:
· We find that the ticket was bought using an exploitative practice
Upon a detailed investigation, the member was determined to have engaged in fraudulent, abusive, and/or exploitive practices through misrepresentation, to accrue a considerable amount of ineligible bonus miles. This member was not engaged in an equitable relationship with AA, rather, a systematic pattern of abuse that has caused substantial damage to the integrity of AAdvantage Program. These actions have forced us to exercise our right to prevent future losses by terminating the account(s) involved, as well as any future program eligibility. As such, at the time of termination all miles, awards, or associated benefits were removed. They are no longer eligible to participate in the AAdvantage Program.
Feb 8, 2020, 6:33 pm
#2345
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 745
No longer relevant.
Last edited by OssianBlue; Jul 6, 2020 at 7:05 pm
Feb 8, 2020, 6:34 pm
#2346
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 745
The Chase case isn’t similar at all, since Chase both issued and seized the points in that case. Regardless, it’s been explained multiple times how the AA class wouldn’t be one class. A guy named Tom Smith who mistakenly used a mailer addressed to his brother Tim isn’t at all similarly situated to a person who bought 22 codes from a hacker or to a person who set up AA accounts for their long-dead childhood pets.
Feb 8, 2020, 7:52 pm
#2347
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: SFO
Posts: 487
people were selling their mailer codes on forums. Not sure where you got this notion that a hacker was generating codes
Feb 8, 2020, 8:06 pm
#2348
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Miami, Florida
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Spire, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,009
Feb 8, 2020, 9:14 pm
#2350
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,825
Feb 8, 2020, 10:25 pm
#2351
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
If the claimed hacking “laid out in perfect detail” had been laid out in perfect detail, then it could have been replicated with Citicard mailer codes by you or others. Did you replicate the hacking process with CITI AA mailer codes?
Even if accepting as a given that there may have been some guessing mailer codes, note that Citi has some history of accepting applications for cards even when the mailer code is missing/illegible in whole or in part. Calling up Citi to get in on a mailer offer hasn’t always been off-limits. And it’s up to Citi to decide which applicants get approved for Citicards and under which terms the applicant is approved for and allowed to have a Citicard account.
Last edited by GUWonder; Feb 8, 2020 at 10:36 pm
Feb 8, 2020, 10:29 pm
#2352
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,825
No, it was never posted in perfect detail in this thread. It was claimed as having been done, but no proof of it having been done was ever laid out here in perfect detail.
If the claimed hacking “laid out in perfect detail” had been laid out in perfect detail, then it could have been replicated with Citicard mailer codes by you or others. Did you replicate the hacking process with CITI AA mailer codes?
If the claimed hacking “laid out in perfect detail” had been laid out in perfect detail, then it could have been replicated with Citicard mailer codes by you or others. Did you replicate the hacking process with CITI AA mailer codes?
Feb 8, 2020, 10:38 pm
#2353
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Claiming to be able to replicate a process isn’t the same thing as certainly being able to replicate a claimed process.
Feb 8, 2020, 10:57 pm
#2354
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,825
Feb 8, 2020, 11:42 pm
#2355
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Orange County, CA, USA
Programs: AA (Life Plat), Marriott (Life Titanium) and every other US program
Posts: 6,411
What "proof" have YOU seen that any accounts have been terminated for churning?
