Old Dec 18, 19, 1:31 pm
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AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn

How to know if you're locked: (as of 12/22/2019)

- Call in to aadvantage reservations (800-882-8880) If you locked, you'll be forwarded to customer service instead of getting to the automated reservations system
- If you want to stay on the line, ask CSR if your account is locked (you tried to make a reservation but it wouldn't let you). CSR will inform you there's a note on your account and that corporate security will contact you
- Try to make a reservation for a super cheap hotel through useaamiles.com. There are 1000 miles / night hotels in New Delhi, so at worst you'll risk 1K miles. If you're locked, you'll see "Unable to process points. Please call our customer service for assistance."

So far, nobody seems to have gotten unlocked and gotten access to their miles back. Accounts with upcoming travel seem to be the ones that are getting terminated at the highest rate.
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AA accounts restricted (Nov/Dec 2019)

Old Feb 1, 20, 11:54 am
  #2176  
 
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Originally Posted by radonc1 View Post
If one does a quick and dirty count of the amount of money AA lost on free tickets alone, it is easily within tens of thousands of dollars (if not more). If some (or all) of the flights were in J or F, the sums are even more revealing.

It does not surprise me that AA (once they figured it out) wanted to axe as many of the players as possible. With the losses that they incurred, I imagine that they will be more than willing to contest any legal questions that may arise from this.

One quick question I had from the post. Is the member actually banned from the AA program, or do they just have to start from ground zero with a new accounnt?
It's not at all clear to me that AA lost money. Citi paid them a fortune for the miles, so instead of a customer giving AA cash for the flight, Citi did. The catch is that by banning people, AA gets to keep the money Citi paid them and not incur the expense of letting people fly.
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Old Feb 1, 20, 12:01 pm
  #2177  
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Originally Posted by LWT3 View Post
It's not at all clear to me that AA lost money. Citi paid them a fortune for the miles, so instead of a customer giving AA cash for the flight, Citi did. The catch is that by banning people, AA gets to keep the money Citi paid them and not incur the expense of letting people fly.
Youre arguing that AA ran the numbers, concluded it was making money from churners, and then decided to take action anyway, thus costing itself money?
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Old Feb 1, 20, 12:07 pm
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I'm in Ocean's 13.
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Old Feb 1, 20, 12:45 pm
  #2179  
mia
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Thread closed for cooling off period because many are more interested in commenting on others' worthiness to post than participating in a thoughtful discussion. Meta-discussion of who should post in a thread is always off topic. This is a settled issue. Flyertalk threads are public, EVERYONE is welcome if they make substantive contributions. If you cannot respectfully reply to those with whom you disagree you will not be able to post in this thread. Learn to use the Ignore List function.

Likewise, if you are not familiar with the history of Citi AAdvantage card application strategies, please READ some of the older threads to understand the context for this discussion.
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Last edited by mia; Feb 1, 20 at 1:33 pm
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Old Feb 3, 20, 3:16 pm
  #2180  
 
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Originally Posted by sbrower View Post
Actually, I would think that AA (or, more specifically, their legal counsel) is counting on this. They will find someone who creates the most fake accounts, and is the most abusive, and then they will sue that ONE individual in Federal Court in Dallas. That will be the poster child for abuse of credit card mailers, etc. The benefit will be that IF there are a bunch of other suits filed they might even be able to move to consolidate all of them in the Federal Court in Dallas (there are a LOT of "buts" to this assumption of jurisdiction, but it is a strategic possibility).
Wouldn't Citi need to be a party to that lawsuit? So far, it does not seem like Citi is involved.
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Old Feb 3, 20, 3:39 pm
  #2181  
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Originally Posted by IAD_flyer View Post
Wouldn't Citi need to be a party to that lawsuit? So far, it does not seem like Citi is involved.
I don't see them as a "necessary party" (a term of art in legal pleadings).
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Old Feb 3, 20, 5:03 pm
  #2182  
 
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Originally Posted by joe_miami View Post
Youre arguing that AA ran the numbers, concluded it was making money from churners, and then decided to take action anyway, thus costing itself money?
The underlined part is incorrect. AA made money from churners (via selling of miles). Now it confiscates those miles, and will sell them the 2nd time.
Will there be any buyers this time?
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Old Feb 3, 20, 5:07 pm
  #2183  
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Originally Posted by MaxVO View Post
The underlined part is incorrect. AA made money from churners (via selling of miles). Now it confiscates those miles, and will sell them the 2nd time.
Will there be any buyers this time?
AA made money selling miles. That part is true. But it's highly unlikely AA made money from churners, both because common sense says they didn't, and because companies rarely sacrifice future profits just to take action against a person or group out of spite.
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Old Feb 3, 20, 5:11 pm
  #2184  
 
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Originally Posted by joe_miami View Post
AA made money selling miles. That part is true. But it's highly unlikely AA made money from churners, both because common sense says they didn't, and because companies rarely sacrifice future profits just to take action against a person or group out of spite.
AA made money when Citi payed them for those miles. Then they closed peoples' accounts and refused to provide the services which they advertise that those miles can buy. They are not doing it out of spite, any more than a common thief who breaks into your home steals things out of spite. They are doing it because they want to keep the money and not provide the service.
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Old Feb 3, 20, 5:14 pm
  #2185  
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Originally Posted by VegasGambler View Post
AA made money when Citi payed them for those miles. Then they closed peoples' accounts and refused to provide the services which they advertise that those miles can buy. They are not doing it out of spite, any more than a common thief who breaks into your home steals things out of spite. They are doing it because they want to keep the money and not provide the service.
None of us have any idea what's happening behind the scenes with the AA-Citi accounting in this matter. None.
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Last edited by joe_miami; Feb 3, 20 at 5:23 pm
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Old Feb 3, 20, 5:49 pm
  #2186  
 
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Originally Posted by joe_miami View Post
I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt all of the above could even be in the same class action.
In the absence of any clear explanation into why AA is terminating accounts (it could be just because a rogue AA employee doesn't like people born in July, we simply don't know), there is only one class:

"People who had their accounts terminated and any associated flights cancelled with a simple boilerplate email claiming expoitative practices, and no explanation or communication otherwise when pressed for further information".

Maybe later during discovery AA can help us slice and dice the class, but till that happens this is a very simple class of people who have been unjustly terminated and thousands of dollars worth of miles confiscated. It would be very similar to if e.g. Amazon or Uber or any other company did unexplained account terminations while those accounts had balances of "UberCash" or "AmazonCredit" etc worth thousands of dollars.

We can start with that class and if/when AA admits that this is related to Citibank, we can drag Citibank into the lawsuit since it looks like AA & Citi conspired to have a scheme where one corporation will issue the miles (after doing a full credit and background check against one's ssn, so these are legally gotten miles), while the other corporation will mark those miles as fraudulent to terminate accounts. If AA ever names Citi, then they are admitting to a criminal conspiracy here to defraud users by deciding the miles they sold Citi were ineligible if Citi ever issued them to their most loyal and frequent customers.
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Old Feb 3, 20, 5:56 pm
  #2187  
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Originally Posted by nomiiiii View Post
In the absence of any clear explanation into why AA is terminating accounts (it could be just because a rogue AA employee doesn't like people born in July, we simply don't know), there is only one class:
Nah, we know. And AA will make sure the court formally knows if/when anyone files a class-action against it.
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Old Feb 3, 20, 6:22 pm
  #2188  
 
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Originally Posted by nomiiiii View Post
..We can start with that class and if/when AA admits that this is related to Citibank, we can drag Citibank into the lawsuit since it looks like AA & Citi conspired...
If it got that far, AA might want to negotiate, they would fear discovery as they would be required to reveal a lot more than they would feel comfortable doing. But it is a big if to get that far.

Last edited by mia; Feb 3, 20 at 7:26 pm Reason: Formatting
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Old Feb 3, 20, 7:18 pm
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Last edited by billybayswater; Jul 13, 20 at 12:56 pm
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Old Feb 3, 20, 7:49 pm
  #2190  
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Repetitive personal squabbling over who-knows-what does not advance discussion of the topic. Please make your point once, and move on. Repetitive content will be deleted.
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