Dec 18, 2019, 12:31 pm
Last edit by: wyogold
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AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn
How to know if you're locked: (as of 12/22/2019)
- Call in to aadvantage reservations (800-882-8880) If you locked, you'll be forwarded to customer service instead of getting to the automated reservations system
- If you want to stay on the line, ask CSR if your account is locked (you tried to make a reservation but it wouldn't let you). CSR will inform you there's a note on your account and that corporate security will contact you
- Try to make a reservation for a super cheap hotel through useaamiles.com. There are 1000 miles / night hotels in New Delhi, so at worst you'll risk 1K miles. If you're locked, you'll see "Unable to process points. Please call our customer service for assistance."
So far, nobody seems to have gotten unlocked and gotten access to their miles back. Accounts with upcoming travel seem to be the ones that are getting terminated at the highest rate.
AA potentially closing accounts due to credit card churning/churn
How to know if you're locked: (as of 12/22/2019)
- Call in to aadvantage reservations (800-882-8880) If you locked, you'll be forwarded to customer service instead of getting to the automated reservations system
- If you want to stay on the line, ask CSR if your account is locked (you tried to make a reservation but it wouldn't let you). CSR will inform you there's a note on your account and that corporate security will contact you
- Try to make a reservation for a super cheap hotel through useaamiles.com. There are 1000 miles / night hotels in New Delhi, so at worst you'll risk 1K miles. If you're locked, you'll see "Unable to process points. Please call our customer service for assistance."
So far, nobody seems to have gotten unlocked and gotten access to their miles back. Accounts with upcoming travel seem to be the ones that are getting terminated at the highest rate.
AA accounts restricted (Nov/Dec 2019)
Jan 15, 2020, 1:01 pm
#1636
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: BDL, JFK
Posts: 658
This is wishful thinking. Everyone knew (and knows) that there is no reason to sign up for a credit card account, close it, then open it again other than to get the bonus more than once. That is the gaming/abusive/fraudulent/whatever behavior that AA is punishing. How you got the SUBs, and what the T&Cs said at the time, doesn't really matter. If you want to point to the terms, those same T&C's always had an effective "AA can do whatever it wants with the AAdvantage program" statement at the bottom. There are no regulatory protections for that behavior, and no regulations that prevent a loyalty program operator (or company) from firing its least profitable customers. Saying that "AA kept sending me mailers so I kept signing up because they kept giving me miles" isn't a legal defense. No honest lawyer would take your money to sue AA here, and a class-action is going to have an uphill battle since AA is not going to have difficulty painting the plaintiffs in an unsympathetic light and will easily be able to show the financial impact this behavior had on other "honest" airline passengers. AA may settle to make court costs go away, but no one will get any worthwhile award.
If you really can't stomach the idea of taking the L and moving on, then the most realistic opportunity for 'getting back at them' would seem to be complaining to the SEC and claim that Citi/American officers knowingly hid and/or reported fraudulent acquisition/portfolio metrics to investors.
If you really can't stomach the idea of taking the L and moving on, then the most realistic opportunity for 'getting back at them' would seem to be complaining to the SEC and claim that Citi/American officers knowingly hid and/or reported fraudulent acquisition/portfolio metrics to investors.
Jan 15, 2020, 1:10 pm
#1637
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 10
That Citi did not stop the behavior does not mean they encouraged it, nor is it even relevant. Even if Citi was 'encouraging' the behavior, AA can still shut down people who engaged in the behavior. They also have the option to seek remedy from Citi (or not), as per their discretion and contractual terms.
Jan 15, 2020, 1:21 pm
#1638
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 10
Not necessarily. The tax is related to the sale of travel, not the use of travel. Even if the PAX does have standing, they're only going to be able to recover those specific refundable taxes - which AA may not even have to pay. Instead, the individual may need to end up claiming them on their tax returns.
Jan 15, 2020, 1:32 pm
#1639
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 746
Everyone refers to the average American consumer with a basic understanding of credit cards. They would all understand that there is no practical purpose for opening and closing the same credit product, particularly within a short time frame, other than to obtain whatever bonus/benefits comes from opening accounts. That is absolutely a true statement.
That Citi did not stop the behavior does not mean they encouraged it, nor is it even relevant. Even if Citi was 'encouraging' the behavior, AA can still shut down people who engaged in the behavior. They also have the option to seek remedy from Citi (or not), as per their discretion and contractual terms.
That Citi did not stop the behavior does not mean they encouraged it, nor is it even relevant. Even if Citi was 'encouraging' the behavior, AA can still shut down people who engaged in the behavior. They also have the option to seek remedy from Citi (or not), as per their discretion and contractual terms.
Jan 15, 2020, 1:54 pm
#1641
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,435
AA's terms are not almighty. Yes, then can and do put in writing "We reserve the right to do whatever we want to your account" So that covers them to do whatever they want? No.
Just look at any store that has the familiar sign, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." A minority couple goes in, so the store is legally allowed to kick them out because they are a minority? Uh, no. Doesn't work that way.
Just look at any store that has the familiar sign, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." A minority couple goes in, so the store is legally allowed to kick them out because they are a minority? Uh, no. Doesn't work that way.
Jan 15, 2020, 2:07 pm
#1643
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
For some AA-issued award tickets’ taxes, AA’s conversion of some such taxes collected into revenue for AA may be legally problematic for AA in the eyes of some government authorities. I won’t say more about that here.
Jan 15, 2020, 2:25 pm
#1644
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 615
Thinking about the miles zeroed out...
Assuming 20k accounts...
If the average is only 50k per account... 1 Billion Miles
If the average is 500k per account... 10 Billion Miles
If the average is 1 Million per account... 20 Billion Miles
Just a staggering number of miles.
If AA values/sells them at a penny each and assuming 500k miles per account... $100 million dollars recouped to AA/Citi.
No real point. Just gives the scale.
Assuming 20k accounts...
If the average is only 50k per account... 1 Billion Miles
If the average is 500k per account... 10 Billion Miles
If the average is 1 Million per account... 20 Billion Miles
Just a staggering number of miles.
If AA values/sells them at a penny each and assuming 500k miles per account... $100 million dollars recouped to AA/Citi.
No real point. Just gives the scale.
Jan 15, 2020, 8:40 pm
#1647
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 274
It I go to a store to buy something. I pay sales tax. But if I return the item, I get the sales tax back from the store.
As long as the tax is not paid to the government by the customer directly, it's the store/airline's responsibility to refund those. I have canceled award bookings, all sorts of tax and fees from multiple governments always get refunded. If your tickets are refundable, the tax and fees always get refunded. AA only pays the tax and fees based on how many people actually traveled or landed at the particular airports, just like retail stores where the tax is only calculated from the net sales revenue.
Jan 15, 2020, 10:07 pm
#1648
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PWM
Programs: AA Plat
Posts: 1,335
By law, this tax applies to the sale of air transportation, not to the transportation itself.
Under the law, if an airline refunds the air fare, it is free to, but not required to, refund the tax. If the airline refunds the air fare but does not refund the tax, the traveler can claim the a refund of the tax from the IRS by filing form 8849 with that agency.
Under the law, if an airline refunds the air fare, it is free to, but not required to, refund the tax. If the airline refunds the air fare but does not refund the tax, the traveler can claim the a refund of the tax from the IRS by filing form 8849 with that agency.
Jan 15, 2020, 10:38 pm
#1649
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 274
That's exactly my point. You pay for the service, not the service + tax. So if you bought a service nonrefundable, and can't use the service because issue on your side, you don't get refunded the tax because you paid for the service. But if the service is cancelled by the service provider, you get full refund including all tax.
The title of the article clearly match what I say.
The title of the article clearly match what I say.
Jan 16, 2020, 7:51 am
#1650
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
No. It is totally right.