krazykanuck

Well I'm feeling no regret about cancelling my Prestige a couple months ago. I could handle the 2x/yr restriction on the 4NF but the loss of being able to book through the concierge just kills the remaining value there. Of my 2 4NF stays in my most recent year, both needed the concierge to access member only rates or use my corporate rate code. The increase in earn rates is nice, especially the 5x on dining. Oh well. This card and I had a good run. Depending on what the landscape looks like re the 24 month family rule and how lucrative the sign up bonus is I may be back in the future.

Duke787

+1. Sometimes I forget to notify Chase of my travel and I've never had a problem using my CSR anywhere on the planet where Visa is accepted

akr1970akr

I think this is going to be very individual specific - bank/card/history - and is not something that can be generalized.

Banks do not want to block valid legit transactions.

They have about 50 milliseconds to make a decision, after you tap, swipe, or insert.

I haven't had much trouble in Europe with Prestige (it worked very well) but had other random widgets freeze up, inexplicably.

Cards I never used were sometimes ok, and daily drivers (who'd been given notification of travel) would be balky.

I think anyone on FT should just keep a small quiver of cards from different banks/payment networks in their wallet and on their watch/phone no matter what.

And even being super old school, I still get a little cash in the local currency from an ATM or ahead of time too.

The costs are not high for those kinds of protection.

akr1970akr

Citi's goal with their all of their credit cards, even their flagships, is to make profit. Prestige customers are unlikely to pay lots of late fees, interest, or other junk costs like cash advance surcharges etc. So whatever is being doled out has to be balanced with what is being taken in on the the revenue side. Chase has been getting hurt with CSR -- they took a 200 or 300mm charge to earnings for it. I doubt Prestige - if analysed on a separate line item basis - is wildly different although mgmt was a little less flagrant in handing out sign up bonuses. Every action they have taken for 2-3 years has been about restoring profitability, or at least stopping the bleeding.

Things that can't go on forever, don't. This is the iron law of travel hacking, churning, and so on.

If anything the CARD act has made it far more dangerous for issuers - if they do something deranged (like 4NF) - they cannot easily extricate themselves from it. Unlike a biz card, which can gets its T&C changed lightning quick if they realize there's some loophole they've left open.

Ultimately as people cancel, and don't get baited into bs retention offers, they'll either reach some equilibrium, or (again) adjust what they offer to holders.

=========

So weirdly, I caught up with a family member today at a memorial service. They just won the first level of status with Star Alliance, and have been getting no loving from their airlines still, and they actually were saying how happy they were with their Premier and TYP in general. They'd gotten more out of that than the lowest rung of whatever United hands out. This was mostly TYP transfers into SQ for longhaul. It was strange to hear a non FT type wax on about TYP.

kesco

Has anyone had any good luck in booking WITH the ThankYou service center @ 1-800-THANK-YOU? e.g. is the availability EXACTLY the same as online, and you get no hotel status benefits to boot? Just curious if the phone is the same as online.

swag

It gets much harder to discern a pattern when you limit your data set to two data points per year.

Super Mario

Banks are way smarter than previously. It's no longer "you're out of state, this is dangerous". If you book travel on your card, they know where you're going.

The name of the game is to get people in the door, first and foremost. Then, if need be, you can scale back. Chase isn't seeing doom and gloom from the CSR charges. They surely understand that they have to right size the model, but that 200m charge is marketing for them. As they cut purchase protection, extra PP guests, rewards for the initial $300, abusers, and other stealth things we will never see, they do what they believe will save money, but keep customers around. They have not alienated their base.

Citi, unfortunately, has completely revamped their product, directed towards the average consumer. They have completely alienated the original base. The vast majority of people will never care about transferring points to business first class or use a concierge to implement their corporate rate to book 8 nights in Bali. They see 5% return, and think 5 > 3 elsewhere. It seems like smart marketing on the outside. However, the internet talks. This product does not compete well with Chase or AMEX.

mia

If you follow the link to my original post, you can see that I think they added this provision to deal with some booking made between now and September 2019 when the cap is applied.

None of the announced changes restrict transfers, and increasing points per dollar would seem to make Prestige more attractive for those who redeem by transferring.

From a customer perspective it's great that Citi announces changes far in advance, but from a competitive perspective I don't know why they do this. It makes it much easier for Chase to offer something just slightly more appealing, as they did when Sapphire Reserve was introduced after changes to Prestige had been published.

MapleLeafss

damon88

Explorer789

It's almost like they wanted to curb the abuses to their benefits that they allowed for so long, especially with bloggers like TPG who blatantly brag about it how many thousands of dollars in hotel bookings they have avoided using 4NF each year.

As for the average consumer, I'm glad they at least reduced it to only two. It could have been worse by making it one or even removing the benefit altogether. Two equates roughly to the number of week long vacations I might actually pay for out of my pocket each year, as the rest of the nights are usually award redemptions or free night certificates I accumulated from my other cards.

To say that the product does not compete with Chase or Amex is a bit overstatement. They still retain their key differentiating benefits like 4NF and trip delay protection, and sweetened the pot by giving higher category bonuses as well. The average consumer isn't going to read the forums to understand why this card is or is not good. Marketing is what will hook them in.

worldfreqtrav

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm interpreting this as saying that we can make bookings through August 2020 as most hotels allow bookings to be made for at least a year out. So basically, as long as we have made a booking through Aspire prior to 9/1/19 we should still receive the 4NF without any use cap. As long as we know our schedules, we'd be able to make bookings a year out and if we didn't need the booking then we could cancel?

Anyone else reading it the same way I am?

One problem I see is, who we would contact if we needed to cancel a booking after 9/1/19 if Citi is no longer working with Aspire?

Also, is there a difference between a "booking" and a "reservation?" I notice Citi is using the word "booking" and not "reservation."

pinniped

I've been blocked randomly by all banks - but I've learned over the years (after calling a couple times about it) that it's often not the bank doing the blocking. The denial is coming from in-country somehow.

Example: in Nepal, Amex and Chase were getting universally declined, but my one Citi and one Barclay card were working fine. In India, it was the reverse: the Amex and Chase worked, but my Citi card wasn't working. In Peru, my Chase cards wouldn't work at all but Amex and Barclay worked fine. Always at merchants that were displaying all of the various card logos, and sometimes even at pretty established places like medium-sized inns/hotels or upscale restaurants.

I've also had my entire wallet of cards rejected for certain airlines. I cannot buy a ticket directly from Jet Airways or Egyptair, for example. Tried everything...Amex, Citi, Chase, Barclay. Booking through Orbitz and flying those airlines works.

Then I'd call Chase or Amex to complain, and they'd say "we don't see that we've denied any charges. To our systems, it looks like you haven't tried to use your card."

So something else is going on, and I honestly don't know enough about foreign banks and networks to know exactly what.

Super Mario

If I was a betting man, it was probably not Citi's intent to offer 4NF on rock-bottom rates through concierge. It was likely a loophole that the internet took advantage of again, so I get that. However, that with the 4NF cap is another big change to the product. I'm sure the average person doesn't use it more than twice, but I would be a bit agitated if this is what I wanted it for.

Maybe it was a bit much to stay it doesn't compete with Chase or AMEX, but what is the definitive competitive advantage for having this card? If you say it's hotel discounts, I disagree. Chase portal gives a 33% discount on everything vs Citis 2-time 25% discount on 4 nights. AMEX plays a different game with FHR getting the premium market edge.

I've had Citi cards for years. While most companies end up evolving their cards, Citi tends to be the most drastic with their changes.

yugi

CNB Crystal Visa Infinite. Unlimited guests.