Feb 4, 2018, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: mia
This thread is a continuation of: Citi AA Plat/Gold/Bus cards. August 2016: 1 personal & 1 business bonus/24 months.
The Executive card includes an Admirals Club membership. It was previously discussed in a separate thread: Citi AA Executive MasterCard (2016-2017)
The Executive card Wikipost is HERE.
Please read this wiki before posting questions in the thread.
All PUBLIC Citi AAdvantage personal card links now deny bonus miles for personal card accounts if you have opened or closed any Citi AAdvantage personal (gold, platinum, exec) card in the past 24 months.
All PUBLIC Citi AAdvantage business card links now deny bonus miles for business card accounts if you have opened or closed any Citi AAdvantage business card in the past 24 months.
See FAQ #1 below for additional details. See FAQ #3 below for a way around the 24-month restriction, including updated restrictions on mailers as of 10/14/2018.
Previous threads (now closed) on this topic are available for 2013-2014, 2015, and the first 7 months of 2016.
For information on the Executive version of this card, see: Citi Executive AA thread
Recommended application procedure:
Clear cache and cookies prior to applying or use an incognito or private browsing session to apply. Opening multiple different apps in different windows or tabs or failing to clear cookies/cache has resulted in people receiving a lesser offer.
Table of Contents
Top personal card offers
Top business card offers
Other personal cards
Other business cards
Citibank contacts/resources
Frequently Asked Questions
Top personal card offers (currently 60K)
For the sake of continuity, please do not renumber items in this list. Links are listed in chronological order (newest ones last).
Note: except as noted, application pages for offers in this section contain the following (or substantially similar) language:
34)Personal Citi® Platinum Select® / AAdvantage® World MasterCard 60,000 bonus miles after $3,000 in purchases within the first 3 months.
Apply by October 7, 2019. Although it doesn't say so on the offer page, the terms and conditions on the application page do say that the annual fee is waived the first year. Check this and take a screen shot, and please tell us if this changes. Thanks.
33) DEAD Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 60K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; application page.
Landing page for the personal Platinum Select card. 50,000 bonus miles after $3,000 in purchases within the first 3 months and 10,000 bonus miles after a total of $6,000 in purchases within the first 12 months
Top business card offers (currently 75K)
For the sake of continuity, please do not renumber items in this list. Links are listed in chronological order (newest ones last).
Except as noted below, all offers in this section contain language stating that
Prior to August 11, 2016, the standard language read as follows:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/citi...-business.html
Q) Landing page for business Platinum Select World MC offer for 70K miles after $4000 spend in 4 months, $95 fee waived first year.
.
R) Landing page for business Platinum Select World MC offer for 60K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; application page.
S ) Landing page for business Platinum Select World MC offer for 75K miles after $5000 spend in 5 months, $99 fee waived first year.
Other personal cards
24) Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 50K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; a) original application page, b) replacement application page, c) current application page - 4/19/2017.
30) Application page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 50K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year. Application page.
32) Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 40K miles after $1000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year. Application page.
26) Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 30K miles after $1000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; a) new 30K application pageb) original 50K application page. Expired ~ Apr. 18, 2017.
28) Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 30K miles after $1000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; a) new 30K/$1K application page,b) original 50K application page. Expired ~ Apr 18, 2017.
Landing page for Citi Gold Mastercard offer for 25,000 miles after $750 spend in 3 months. $50 annual fee, waived first year; current application page, prior application page.
Other business cards
K) Landing page for business Platinum Select World MC offer for 50K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year. Current (third) application page.
Landing page for CitiBusiness Platinum Select MC offer for 30K miles after $1000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; Application page.
Citibank contacts/resources
Frequently Asked Questions
The FAQs below will almost certainly answer questions you have about Citi AA Platinum, Gold, and CitiBusiness cards. Do not post in the thread "just to double-check if the wiki is correct"; the wiki is here to avoid having people ask the same questions endlessly. With few exceptions, Citi CSRs and bloggers spread a great deal of misinformation.
1. Are these AA cards churnable?
Yes and no. The general rules are:
If you violate the 24-month rule, Citi may still issue you the card but you will not get the bonus.
Most of the above rules are new for Citi. Prior to December 2015, receiving the card meant receiving the bonus. Prior to August 2016, the card type and category mattered.
Note that beginning in late 2014, new Citi AA business card offers began including the explicit requirement that the applicant not be an existing AA business cardholder. This language has not been uniformly enforced.
When closing a business card, be sure to completely cancel the full account; send an SM or call and request that the account, ending in XXXX and the associated cards, ending in YYYY (etc.) be closed, including the master account. (The master account is the actual line of credit, while the cards are the individual cards associated with each employee of the business.) To find the master account number, go to your online account and select the card you want to close. In the bottom left corner there is a dropdown box next to "Cardholder:" that has the master account and any card accounts listed.
2. Does a product change or card conversion count as a card open/close that resets the 24-month clock?
Yes. Downgrading to a different card (aka a "product change" or PC) counts as closing the AA card. This includes downgrades from AA Platinum to Gold as well as downgrades to non-AA cards. A similar rule has also been true for involuntary, Citi-initiated conversions of legacy, no-longer-issued AA Visa & Amex cards to MasterCards; these events are both a closure (of the old card) and an opening (of the replacement MC).
3. Is there any way around the 24-month restriction?
Yes. As of August 2016, there are two ways.
a) Targeted mailer offers Numerous FTers received physical mailers with unique invitation codes since 2015 in which the T&C do not contain the 24-month restriction language. E-mailed mailers do not circumvent the 24-month rules even though the application page does not have 24-month language.
The T&C for these offers will typically say instead that they are "applicable only to new accounts." This is nothing to worry about; all it means is that Citi won't retroactively match you to the offer on an account you already have; it doesn't disqualify someone who has a Citi AA card or has ever had one. Note: not all mailer offers are worded this way; some contain the standard 24-month restriction, so it is important to read closely.
If you would like to get targeted mailers, it is best not to have had a Citi AA card in the recent past. A number of people have gotten mailers by creating an AAdvantage account for a family member with the same last name at their address. Mailers usually start to show up a few months after an AAdvantage account is created, and stop coming once the mailers for that account begin to be used. Frequency of mailers varies widely.
Other noteworthy aspects:
b) Pre-qualified offers Multiple FTers (ref; ref) have reported receiving pre-qualified offers that do not include the 24-month/card-family restriction.
You can check for pre-qualified offers here. A good results page will have a heading that starts "[NAME], you're Pre-Qualified to apply for the following credit cards offers." A page that starts with "[NAME], we couldn't match your records to a Pre-Qualified credit card offer. See below for [X number] other cards you may like" does NOT contain a prequalified offer even if the page displays more than X offers; the offers presented will almost certainly contain (and Citi will enforce) the 24-month language.
4. What are the most current time-restriction rules in applying for all Citi cards?
For purposes of these rules,
If you get denied for violating any of these rules, you will probably have to wait the full time period (60+/90+ days) before trying again. Use this calculator to establish your dates: http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadd.html
In addition, FT lore has evolved into soft guidance that you apply for no more than one Citi card (of any kind) in any 8-day period. This is merely prudential guidance, not clearly established Citi policy; there are examples of people applying for two cards in a single day and being approved for the second. However, multiple Citi applications in a short time frame do appear, at least anecdotally, to increase the odds of the second application being denied. (You may see FTers refer to "the 8/65 rule," which refers to this soft guidance plus the strict 60-day rule noted above.)
NOTE: There are enough DP on this thread to indicate that Citi sometimes rejects apps that meet 8/65 rule (this is NOT a Citi rule but presumed by frequent long-term churners based on DP shared by various people on this and other boards over the years. Again, this is NOT a Citi rule. If you do not want to take chance, do NOT apply for more than 1 citi card every 75-90 days.
An example of the guidance above applied in combination:
Day 1 Apply for 65K AA Personal Plat MC - Starts 60-day and 24-month clocks. No apps of any kind recommended for 8 days.
Day 9 Apply for 50K AA Personal Plat MC using Mailer - Restarts 24-month clock for personal AA card & resets 60-day clock.
Day 66 Apply for 50K AA Business - Starts 24-month clock for AA biz card apps, starts 90-day clock for CitiBusiness cards & updates 60-day clock. No apps of any kind for 3 days, recommended 8 days.
Day 74 Apply for 50K TYP Card - Starts 24-month clock for TYP & updates 60-day clock. No apps of any kind for 52 days, recommended 57 days.
Day 161 - Open Costco Business card/Close CitiBusiness AA card - Restarts 24-month clock for Business AA apps, restarts 90-day clock for CitiBusiness cards & updates 60-day clock. No apps of any kind recommended for 8 days.
Day 9 plus 24 months Apply for 50K AA personal plat MC - As long as you have not closed the Day 9 card in the previous 24 months (as that would have reset the 24-month personal card clock).
Day 161 plus 24 months - Apply for 50K AA Business . . .
Not sure what day you applied? The date is written year, month, day in the application number: 201702150000 means you applied on February 15, 2017.
5. Do I need to close existing cards before applying?
There is no requirement that you close previous personal accounts. In fact, with the new applications that include 24-month language, closing accounts will increase the time between applications. People have reported having 6 or more of the exact same card.
The rules for Business accounts vary by individual. Some people can only get a single business card in their lifetime. Others can only get a new business card if their previous business cards are closed. This requires the master account and all employee accounts be closed see FAQ #1 above. Still others can have multiple business accounts open. It is unknown why people end up in one pool versus another. The only way to figure out which pool you are in is to test it out. With the new 24-month language, it is safest to completely close business accounts as soon as the bonus is received.
6. When should I close existing Citi accounts?
Citi cards can be closed immediately after receiving a bonus and paying off the balance. There are no verifiable reports of Citi clawing back miles except in cases where charges forming part of the required bonus spend are later reversed (for merchandise return, etc.).
Reasons to keep accounts open:
Reasons to close accounts:
7. Can I apply for a business card if I don’t have a business?
Anyone can apply for a business card. You do not need a registered business with an EIN. If you do not have a business with an EIN or with bills/accounts in the business name, you can apply using your name as the business. The three possibilities are that: 1. You could be approved unconditionally, 2. You could be asked to fax a couple of bills or accounts (water, electricity, gas, cable, or phone bills, bank accounts, etc.) in the name of the business to Citi, or 3. You could be required to fill out and send a 4506-T tax form. Whatever you do do not make up income etc. about the business. Plenty of people have been issued multiple cards for businesses with $0 annual revenue, 1-5 employees, and 0 years in business. While it may seem that your chances are better with an 'actual' business, Citi does not care.
8. Can I buy Visa gift cards to meet my minimum spend?
Purchases from banks are almost always coded as a cash advance regardless of what they are for. Purchases from stores, e.g. CVS, are almost always coded as a purchase. Citi is not very vigilant about policing MS.
If you are concerned about it, it’s recommended to send a secure message Citi and have them set your Cash Advance limit to zero. Phone CSRs often say they cannot do this.
9. Do I have to use my own AAdvantage number on applications?
Yes. The name on the card application must match the name on the AAdvantage account. You cannot apply for multiple cards for different people and use the same AAdvantage account number. People have reported having as many as 6-7 open Citi AA cards.
10. There is nothing on the application page stating the bonus miles. How do I know what the associated offer is?
You need to have faith in the readers of this thread if you want to maximize your miles. FTers constantly apply for these cards and report back to confirm bonus amounts. If you don't feel like trusting in the experiences of others, then apply for an offer with a landing page.
11. After approval, how can I a) confirm the amount of the bonus I can earn and b) determine the deadline for completing the required spend?
For personal and business cards, you can always send Citi a secure message through your online account to confirm your bonus amount and deadline. (You must first activate the card and set up online access, either by creating an online account or by linking your new card to your existing online account. Unlike some other banks, Citi does not automatically add your new card to your existing online account.)
Note for for Business cards only: Approval letters for business cards do not confirm the bonus.
In addition, for personal cards only (and perhaps only for online applications), there are two additional indicators:
Note that these are the only reliable indicators. Asking a Citi phone CSR immediately after you are approved is NOT a sound approach. Such CSRs can only tell you what the bonus offer terms were, not whether you are eligible. (This is because Citi will issue you a card even if you are ineligible for the signup bonus.)
12. When will my bonus miles post?
Roughly 2-3 days after the statement closing date, of the of the statement containing the charge that takes you across the spend threshold. You can look at the paper statement (or PDF if online/paperless) and you'll see a section that says "miles earned". Ex: If your statement closed on January 10, 2019, and you met the MSR on that statement, you should see a "miles earned" that has the Bonus miles plus the charges/miles earned. Note that the Citi online account info shows the current AA balance, and it make take several days for the "online" AA balance to show the proper miles. The paper statement will show if/when the bonus miles were earned.
13. Do I get 10% back when redeeming miles for awards?
It depends. First, the rebate program (which began in April 2012) applies only to holders of these cards:
Also, the maximum rebate for any cardholder in a single calendar year is 10,000 miles. Having more than one qualifying Citi AA card will not allow you to receive a larger rebate; the restriction applies per AAdvantage account.
For more on the 10% rebate benefit, see AAdvantage Citi / Barclays 10% miles / mileage rebate (consolidated).
14. Can I cancel a card using secure messaging?
Yes, assuming you have set up the credit card in your Citi account. Quick and easy.
15. Which credit bureau does Citi pull and can I force them to use a different one?
Citi appears to use Experian most frequently, followed by Equifax. For some people they pull both. It depends on where you are located. You can check the Credit Boards database to see where card issuers have pulled recently.
For the most part, freezing Experian, or another bureau, will not cause Citi to pull a different bureau. They will almost certainly require you to unfreeze the bureau they wish to pull or deny your application. Some people have been successful providing the PIN but others have not. Mostly, freezing a credit bureau in an attempt to force Citi to pull a different one seems to waste time, money, and effort for little result. But YMMV.
For one person's experiences with various card issuers, check here.
16. When is the 60K (75K, 100K, etc.) offer going to come back?
Nobody knows except Citi & they don't announce these things in advance. If we knew, we'd be talking about it non-stop. Please don't ask about it periodically in the thread.
If you want to make yourself useful, you can easily look for new offers by testing the URLs
17. Is my card World (W) or World Elite (WE)?
It was once useful to know if your card is World (W) or World Elite (WE) because of a loophole that previously allowed applicants to open new accounts and earn signup bonuses less than 24 months since the last open/close of the same card type. That loophole has been closed. (See FAQ #1 above for more information.)
Physical card
In the alternative,
18. Why and when does Citi convert cards to World Elite? Can I do anything to trigger the conversion?
Citi appears to convert recently opened World MCs to World Elite en masse at periodic intervals once every few months. For most new cardholders, this will occur in the second or third full billing cycle; for holders of legacy Citi AA VISA or Amex cards, the conversion may occur at any time.
There is nothing you can do as a cardholder to trigger the conversion.
19. What's the difference between World and World Elite cards?
See the wiki at Difference in MasterCard World and World Elite?.
20. Does Citi match bonus offers?
Yes. After you activate and link your new card to your online account, send an SM explaining that you heard about a XXK bonus and ask if they can match that bonus to your new card. You have to have a bonus on the existing card. You do not need to explain where you saw the bonus. You do not need to lie, simply read about current bonuses in this thread.
The bonus miles normally appear two days after the end of the next billing cycle.
Currently, you can match up to the lesser of 20,000 miles over your existing offer and 75,000 miles.
If you are rejected, send a new request. If rejected more than once, try sending at a different time of day, use different wording, etc.
21. The CSR told me I was not eligible for the bonus, should I cancel the application??
No. Citi CSRs do not always have complete information. When applying for a card, the CSR can tell that the link is associated with a bonus and that you opened or closed a card within 24 months. However, they cannot tell you whether or not you are eligible for the bonus. Wait for the welcome letter for personal cards or SM after activating a business card if you are unsure.
22. I was following the timing rules but got denied for Multiple Applications for Credit ("MAC"). Why??
Multiple Applications for Credit (or MAC) normally means that you violated one of Citi's application timing rules, like applying for more than two cards in 60 days. Because Citi has trouble counting, applications have been denied in the past if they were too close to 60/90 days. However, starting in August 2016, people have been somewhat randomly getting this denial when applying well outside of the 60/90-day range. CSRs frequently say that you can only apply for a single card in a 60-day period but this is not the case and people who have gotten this denial have gone on to successfully apply for 2 cards in 60 days or less.
You can try to request reconsideration or apply again as if the denial was an approval. You do not have to wait 60+ days from the denial to apply again.
The Executive card includes an Admirals Club membership. It was previously discussed in a separate thread: Citi AA Executive MasterCard (2016-2017)
The Executive card Wikipost is HERE.
Please read this wiki before posting questions in the thread.
All PUBLIC Citi AAdvantage personal card links now deny bonus miles for personal card accounts if you have opened or closed any Citi AAdvantage personal (gold, platinum, exec) card in the past 24 months.
All PUBLIC Citi AAdvantage business card links now deny bonus miles for business card accounts if you have opened or closed any Citi AAdvantage business card in the past 24 months.
See FAQ #1 below for additional details.
Previous threads (now closed) on this topic are available for 2013-2014, 2015, and the first 7 months of 2016.
For information on the Executive version of this card, see: Citi Executive AA thread
Recommended application procedure:
Clear cache and cookies prior to applying or use an incognito or private browsing session to apply. Opening multiple different apps in different windows or tabs or failing to clear cookies/cache has resulted in people receiving a lesser offer.
Table of Contents
Top personal card offers
Top business card offers
Other personal cards
Other business cards
Citibank contacts/resources
Frequently Asked Questions
- Are these AA cards churnable?
- Does a product change or card conversion count as a card open/close that resets the 24-month clock?
- Is there any way around the 24-month restriction?
- What are the most current time-restriction rules in applying for all Citi cards?
- Do I need to close existing cards before applying?
- When should I close existing Citi accounts?
- Can I apply for a business card if I don’t have a business?
- Can I buy Visa gift cards to meet my minimum spend?
- Do I have to use my own AAdvantage number on applications?
- There is nothing on the application page stating the bonus miles. How do I know what the associated offer is?
- After approval, how can I a) confirm the amount of the bonus I can earn and b) determine the deadline for completing the required spend?
- When will my bonus miles post?
- Do I get 10% back when redeeming miles for awards?
- Can I cancel a card using secure messaging?
- Which credit bureau does Citi pull and can I force them to use a different one?
- When is the 60K (75K, 100K, etc.) offer going to come back?
- Is my card World (W) or World Elite (WE)?
- Why and when does Citi convert cards to World Elite? Can I do anything to trigger the conversion?
- What's the difference between World and World Elite cards?
- Does Citi match bonus offers?
- The CSR told me I was not eligible for the bonus, should I cancel the application?
- I was following the timing rules but got denied for Multiple Applications for Credit (commonly referred to as MAC). Why?
Top personal card offers (currently 60K)
For the sake of continuity, please do not renumber items in this list. Links are listed in chronological order (newest ones last).
Note: except as noted, application pages for offers in this section contain the following (or substantially similar) language:
American Airlines AAdvantage bonus miles are not available if you have had any Citi / AAdvantage card (other than an AAdvantage MileUp℠ or a CitiBusiness/AAdvantage card) opened or closed in the past 24 months.
Apply by October 7, 2019. Although it doesn't say so on the offer page, the terms and conditions on the application page do say that the annual fee is waived the first year. Check this and take a screen shot, and please tell us if this changes. Thanks.
33) DEAD Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 60K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; application page.
Landing page for the personal Platinum Select card. 50,000 bonus miles after $3,000 in purchases within the first 3 months and 10,000 bonus miles after a total of $6,000 in purchases within the first 12 months
Top business card offers (currently 75K)
For the sake of continuity, please do not renumber items in this list. Links are listed in chronological order (newest ones last).
Except as noted below, all offers in this section contain language stating that
This card is not available if the business already has a CitiBusiness/AAdvantage Platinum Select World MasterCard account. Bonus miles and any additional special offer not available if you have had any CitiBusiness/AAdvantage account opened or closed in the past 24 months.
Bonus miles not available if you have had a CitiBusiness/AAdvantage Platinum Select World MasterCard opened or closed in the past 24 months.
Q) Landing page for business Platinum Select World MC offer for 70K miles after $4000 spend in 4 months, $95 fee waived first year.
.
R) Landing page for business Platinum Select World MC offer for 60K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; application page.
S ) Landing page for business Platinum Select World MC offer for 75K miles after $5000 spend in 5 months, $99 fee waived first year.
Other personal cards
24) Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 50K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; a)
30) Application page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 50K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year. Application page.
32) Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 40K miles after $1000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year. Application page.
26) Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 30K miles after $1000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; a) new 30K application page
28) Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 30K miles after $1000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; a) new 30K/$1K application page,
Landing page for Citi Gold Mastercard offer for 25,000 miles after $750 spend in 3 months. $50 annual fee, waived first year; current application page, prior application page.
- Note: offer terms now state thatPrior to August 11, 2016, the standard language was less restrictive:American Airlines AAdvantage bonus miles are not available if you have had any Citi / AAdvantage card (other than a CitiBusiness/AAdvantage card) opened or closed in the past 24 months.
American Airlines AAdvantage bonus miles not available if you have had a Citi/AAdvantage Gold MasterCard opened or closed in the past 24 months.
Other business cards
K) Landing page for business Platinum Select World MC offer for 50K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year. Current (third) application page.
Landing page for CitiBusiness Platinum Select MC offer for 30K miles after $1000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; Application page.
Citibank contacts/resources
- Inquiry form for prequalified offers: https://www.citicards.com/cards/cred...on~BrowseCards
- Application status: https://www.accountonline.com/cards/...?screenID=3187
- (800) 695-5171 – Personal Application Status and Reconsideration Line with live rep
- (800) 763-9795 – General Personal Application Inquiries with live rep
- (800) 645-7240 – Business Application Status and Reconsideration Line; press 1 for English and then follow prompts
- (800) 288-4653 – Business Application Status and Reconsideration Line; press 1 for English and then follow prompts
- (866) 606-2787 – General Application and Account Questions with live rep
- (888) 201-4523 – Application status
- (866) 606-2961 – Reconsideration Line.
- Twitter : @AskCiti. Very powerful tool.
- Executive Office - useful for getting a more empowered agent for reconsideration purposes: CitiBank Executive Review Department, P.O. Box 6000, Sioux Falls, SD 57117
Frequently Asked Questions
The FAQs below will almost certainly answer questions you have about Citi AA Platinum, Gold, and CitiBusiness cards. Do not post in the thread "just to double-check if the wiki is correct"; the wiki is here to avoid having people ask the same questions endlessly. With few exceptions, Citi CSRs and bloggers spread a great deal of misinformation.
1. Are these AA cards churnable?
Yes and no. The general rules are:
- Personal AA cards: As of August 11, 2016, all public offers require you to wait 24 months from the date of opening or closing any other personal Citi/AAdvantage account, regardless of type (AmEx, Visa, MC) or category (Gold, Platinum, Executive). This includes voluntary and involuntary conversion of an AA Personal card of any type.
If you violate the 24-month rule, Citi may still issue you the card but you will not get the bonus.
Most of the above rules are new for Citi. Prior to December 2015, receiving the card meant receiving the bonus. Prior to August 2016, the card type and category mattered.
- Business AA cards: As of April 22, 2016, all public business card offers contain a 24-month restriction, as noted above.
Note that beginning in late 2014, new Citi AA business card offers began including the explicit requirement that the applicant not be an existing AA business cardholder. This language has not been uniformly enforced.
When closing a business card, be sure to completely cancel the full account; send an SM or call and request that the account, ending in XXXX and the associated cards, ending in YYYY (etc.) be closed, including the master account. (The master account is the actual line of credit, while the cards are the individual cards associated with each employee of the business.) To find the master account number, go to your online account and select the card you want to close. In the bottom left corner there is a dropdown box next to "Cardholder:" that has the master account and any card accounts listed.
2. Does a product change or card conversion count as a card open/close that resets the 24-month clock?
Yes. Downgrading to a different card (aka a "product change" or PC) counts as closing the AA card. This includes downgrades from AA Platinum to Gold as well as downgrades to non-AA cards. A similar rule has also been true for involuntary, Citi-initiated conversions of legacy, no-longer-issued AA Visa & Amex cards to MasterCards; these events are both a closure (of the old card) and an opening (of the replacement MC).
3. Is there any way around the 24-month restriction?
Yes. As of August 2016, there are two ways.
a) Targeted mailer offers Numerous FTers received physical mailers with unique invitation codes since 2015 in which the T&C do not contain the 24-month restriction language. E-mailed mailers do not circumvent the 24-month rules even though the application page does not have 24-month language.
The T&C for these offers will typically say instead that they are "applicable only to new accounts." This is nothing to worry about; all it means is that Citi won't retroactively match you to the offer on an account you already have; it doesn't disqualify someone who has a Citi AA card or has ever had one. Note: not all mailer offers are worded this way; some contain the standard 24-month restriction, so it is important to read closely.
If you would like to get targeted mailers, it is best not to have had a Citi AA card in the recent past. A number of people have gotten mailers by creating an AAdvantage account for a family member with the same last name at their address. Mailers usually start to show up a few months after an AAdvantage account is created, and stop coming once the mailers for that account begin to be used. Frequency of mailers varies widely.
Other noteworthy aspects:
- In order to access the application page, you must have both the 9-digit or 12-digit invitation code and the surname of the offer recipient.
- After you authenticate the offer code and are redirected to the application page, you may enter a completely different applicant name and address.
- Caution: 12-digit mailers may allow the name change but the application will not be approved.
- Offers do not always expire on the nominal expiration shown on the mailer. Offers with 9-digit codes that direct you to citi.com/applynowAAplatinumselectcard generally last an extra 2 months (i.e., a mailer with a stated May 15 expiration was fully valid through July 14).
- As of 10/14/2018, mailers cannot be used repeatedly. Each mailer can only be used once after 10/14/2018. Additional attempts will not load the application page.
- Use of the mailer by the named individual will cause the mailers to stop coming for that individual.
b) Pre-qualified offers Multiple FTers (ref; ref) have reported receiving pre-qualified offers that do not include the 24-month/card-family restriction.
You can check for pre-qualified offers here. A good results page will have a heading that starts "[NAME], you're Pre-Qualified to apply for the following credit cards offers." A page that starts with "[NAME], we couldn't match your records to a Pre-Qualified credit card offer. See below for [X number] other cards you may like" does NOT contain a prequalified offer even if the page displays more than X offers; the offers presented will almost certainly contain (and Citi will enforce) the 24-month language.
4. What are the most current time-restriction rules in applying for all Citi cards?
- No more than 2 Citi applications of any kind in 60 days (65 days to be safe). Any kind includes personal and business, approved and denied, regardless of type (e.g. AA, TY, CostCo, etc.).
- [In addition to the above:] No more than 1 CitiBusiness application in 90 days (95 days to be safe).
For purposes of these rules,
- count all Citi applications, including denials and/or applications for non-AA cards.
- the only day that matters is the application date (not approval date, not activation date).
- count all calendar days, not just business days.
If you get denied for violating any of these rules, you will probably have to wait the full time period (60+/90+ days) before trying again. Use this calculator to establish your dates: http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadd.html
In addition, FT lore has evolved into soft guidance that you apply for no more than one Citi card (of any kind) in any 8-day period. This is merely prudential guidance, not clearly established Citi policy; there are examples of people applying for two cards in a single day and being approved for the second. However, multiple Citi applications in a short time frame do appear, at least anecdotally, to increase the odds of the second application being denied. (You may see FTers refer to "the 8/65 rule," which refers to this soft guidance plus the strict 60-day rule noted above.)
NOTE: There are enough DP on this thread to indicate that Citi sometimes rejects apps that meet 8/65 rule (this is NOT a Citi rule but presumed by frequent long-term churners based on DP shared by various people on this and other boards over the years. Again, this is NOT a Citi rule. If you do not want to take chance, do NOT apply for more than 1 citi card every 75-90 days.
An example of the guidance above applied in combination:
Day 1 Apply for 65K AA Personal Plat MC - Starts 60-day and 24-month clocks. No apps of any kind recommended for 8 days.
Day 9 Apply for 50K AA Personal Plat MC using Mailer - Restarts 24-month clock for personal AA card & resets 60-day clock.
Day 66 Apply for 50K AA Business - Starts 24-month clock for AA biz card apps, starts 90-day clock for CitiBusiness cards & updates 60-day clock. No apps of any kind for 3 days, recommended 8 days.
Day 74 Apply for 50K TYP Card - Starts 24-month clock for TYP & updates 60-day clock. No apps of any kind for 52 days, recommended 57 days.
Day 161 - Open Costco Business card/Close CitiBusiness AA card - Restarts 24-month clock for Business AA apps, restarts 90-day clock for CitiBusiness cards & updates 60-day clock. No apps of any kind recommended for 8 days.
Day 9 plus 24 months Apply for 50K AA personal plat MC - As long as you have not closed the Day 9 card in the previous 24 months (as that would have reset the 24-month personal card clock).
Day 161 plus 24 months - Apply for 50K AA Business . . .
Not sure what day you applied? The date is written year, month, day in the application number: 201702150000 means you applied on February 15, 2017.
5. Do I need to close existing cards before applying?
There is no requirement that you close previous personal accounts. In fact, with the new applications that include 24-month language, closing accounts will increase the time between applications. People have reported having 6 or more of the exact same card.
The rules for Business accounts vary by individual. Some people can only get a single business card in their lifetime. Others can only get a new business card if their previous business cards are closed. This requires the master account and all employee accounts be closed see FAQ #1 above. Still others can have multiple business accounts open. It is unknown why people end up in one pool versus another. The only way to figure out which pool you are in is to test it out. With the new 24-month language, it is safest to completely close business accounts as soon as the bonus is received.
6. When should I close existing Citi accounts?
Citi cards can be closed immediately after receiving a bonus and paying off the balance. There are no verifiable reports of Citi clawing back miles except in cases where charges forming part of the required bonus spend are later reversed (for merchandise return, etc.).
Reasons to keep accounts open:
- Having large credit lines improves your utilization percentage.
- Maintaining old cards improves average age of cards.
- Credit lines can be moved from old cards to new cards.
- Anecdotal evidence suggests that Citi counts the credit lines of recently-closed accounts for 3-6 months against your total available credit. You can call/SM to reduce credit lines instead or prior to closing to free CL more quickly.
- You can receive retention offers once every 6 months per card. See this thread for details on the latest retention offers.
- Closing cards now resets the clock for future applications for the same type and category of card.
Reasons to close accounts:
- Having a large amount of available credit with Citi will eventually reduce your chances of instant approval. You may end up with 1K/2K credit lines, especially on Business cards. You can also SM and request that your CL be reduced.
- There is little incentive to pay an annual fee if Citi does not ofset it with a credit.
- Citi has become stingier with credits to offset annual fee.
- Having a large number of open Citi cards will show up on your credit report and may affect non-Citi applications as well as the overall age of your accounts.
- Closing multiple accounts of the same type and category simultaneously resets the clock only once. Doing so shortly after opening a new account minimizes the wait for future churn eligibility.
7. Can I apply for a business card if I don’t have a business?
Anyone can apply for a business card. You do not need a registered business with an EIN. If you do not have a business with an EIN or with bills/accounts in the business name, you can apply using your name as the business. The three possibilities are that: 1. You could be approved unconditionally, 2. You could be asked to fax a couple of bills or accounts (water, electricity, gas, cable, or phone bills, bank accounts, etc.) in the name of the business to Citi, or 3. You could be required to fill out and send a 4506-T tax form. Whatever you do do not make up income etc. about the business. Plenty of people have been issued multiple cards for businesses with $0 annual revenue, 1-5 employees, and 0 years in business. While it may seem that your chances are better with an 'actual' business, Citi does not care.
8. Can I buy Visa gift cards to meet my minimum spend?
Purchases from banks are almost always coded as a cash advance regardless of what they are for. Purchases from stores, e.g. CVS, are almost always coded as a purchase. Citi is not very vigilant about policing MS.
If you are concerned about it, it’s recommended to send a secure message Citi and have them set your Cash Advance limit to zero. Phone CSRs often say they cannot do this.
9. Do I have to use my own AAdvantage number on applications?
Yes. The name on the card application must match the name on the AAdvantage account. You cannot apply for multiple cards for different people and use the same AAdvantage account number. People have reported having as many as 6-7 open Citi AA cards.
10. There is nothing on the application page stating the bonus miles. How do I know what the associated offer is?
You need to have faith in the readers of this thread if you want to maximize your miles. FTers constantly apply for these cards and report back to confirm bonus amounts. If you don't feel like trusting in the experiences of others, then apply for an offer with a landing page.
11. After approval, how can I a) confirm the amount of the bonus I can earn and b) determine the deadline for completing the required spend?
For personal and business cards, you can always send Citi a secure message through your online account to confirm your bonus amount and deadline. (You must first activate the card and set up online access, either by creating an online account or by linking your new card to your existing online account. Unlike some other banks, Citi does not automatically add your new card to your existing online account.)
Note for for Business cards only: Approval letters for business cards do not confirm the bonus.
In addition, for personal cards only (and perhaps only for online applications), there are two additional indicators:
- The approval letter for a personal card will confirm the amount of the bonus for which you are eligible, but not the spend deadline. (As noted in FAQ #1 above, Citi may approve you for a personal card even if you do not qualify for a bonus. No bonus language in the letter means no bonus.)
- In many cases, your online account for a personal card also provides information on eligible bonus and spend deadline. Log into your Citi account and select the applicable card. On the Account Details page you'll see a "My Miles Summary" link; click that link, scroll down, and you will see a pie-chart graphic showing the spend deadline and your progress as of your last statement. (Charges made since your last statement are not included in this total.)
Starting in autumn 2016, some users reported that they had no tracker in their accounts despite being bonus-eligible. If your welcome letter confirmed the bonus, you will receive it regardless of the presence/absence of the online tracker. (In other words, the presence of the tracker reaffirms what was conveyed in your approval letter, but its absence proves nothing either way.)
Note that these are the only reliable indicators. Asking a Citi phone CSR immediately after you are approved is NOT a sound approach. Such CSRs can only tell you what the bonus offer terms were, not whether you are eligible. (This is because Citi will issue you a card even if you are ineligible for the signup bonus.)
12. When will my bonus miles post?
Roughly 2-3 days after the statement closing date, of the of the statement containing the charge that takes you across the spend threshold. You can look at the paper statement (or PDF if online/paperless) and you'll see a section that says "miles earned". Ex: If your statement closed on January 10, 2019, and you met the MSR on that statement, you should see a "miles earned" that has the Bonus miles plus the charges/miles earned. Note that the Citi online account info shows the current AA balance, and it make take several days for the "online" AA balance to show the proper miles. The paper statement will show if/when the bonus miles were earned.
13. Do I get 10% back when redeeming miles for awards?
It depends. First, the rebate program (which began in April 2012) applies only to holders of these cards:
- Citi Platinum Select AAdvantage Visa Signature
- Citi Platinum Select AAdvantage World MasterCard
- Citi Platinum Select AAdvantage World Elite MasterCard
- Citi Select AAdvantage American Express
Also, the maximum rebate for any cardholder in a single calendar year is 10,000 miles. Having more than one qualifying Citi AA card will not allow you to receive a larger rebate; the restriction applies per AAdvantage account.
For more on the 10% rebate benefit, see AAdvantage Citi / Barclays 10% miles / mileage rebate (consolidated).
14. Can I cancel a card using secure messaging?
Yes, assuming you have set up the credit card in your Citi account. Quick and easy.
15. Which credit bureau does Citi pull and can I force them to use a different one?
Citi appears to use Experian most frequently, followed by Equifax. For some people they pull both. It depends on where you are located. You can check the Credit Boards database to see where card issuers have pulled recently.
For the most part, freezing Experian, or another bureau, will not cause Citi to pull a different bureau. They will almost certainly require you to unfreeze the bureau they wish to pull or deny your application. Some people have been successful providing the PIN but others have not. Mostly, freezing a credit bureau in an attempt to force Citi to pull a different one seems to waste time, money, and effort for little result. But YMMV.
For one person's experiences with various card issuers, check here.
16. When is the 60K (75K, 100K, etc.) offer going to come back?
Nobody knows except Citi & they don't announce these things in advance. If we knew, we'd be talking about it non-stop. Please don't ask about it periodically in the thread.
If you want to make yourself useful, you can easily look for new offers by testing the URLs
- away*.citicards.com
- fly*.citicards.com
- travel*.citicards.com
- miles*.citicards.com
- go*.citicards.com
- aadvantagecards*.citicards.com
17. Is my card World (W) or World Elite (WE)?
It was once useful to know if your card is World (W) or World Elite (WE) because of a loophole that previously allowed applicants to open new accounts and earn signup bonuses less than 24 months since the last open/close of the same card type. That loophole has been closed. (See FAQ #1 above for more information.)
Physical card
- If your card is W the back of the card will say "World" and have a red and yellow MasterCard logo.
- If your card is WE the back of the card will say "World Elite" and have a silver MasterCard logo.
- If your card has been converted, the summary for that card (on the home Accounts page) will include, at the bottom, a line with a green flag and the legend "We've mailed your new Citi card. After it arrives, activate it for use. Learn more Activate"
In the alternative,
- Log into your online account.
- Select "Account Management"
- Select "Profile & Settings"
- Select "Set Default Credit Card"
- If the card is listed as "Citi® / AAdvantage® Platinum Select® World MasterCard®" it is W.
- If the card is listed as "Citi® / AAdvantage® Platinum Select®" it is WE.
- If the card is listed as "Citi® / AAdvantage® Gold World MasterCard®" it is W.
- If the card is listed as "Citi® / AAdvantage® Gold" it is WE.
18. Why and when does Citi convert cards to World Elite? Can I do anything to trigger the conversion?
Citi appears to convert recently opened World MCs to World Elite en masse at periodic intervals once every few months. For most new cardholders, this will occur in the second or third full billing cycle; for holders of legacy Citi AA VISA or Amex cards, the conversion may occur at any time.
There is nothing you can do as a cardholder to trigger the conversion.
19. What's the difference between World and World Elite cards?
See the wiki at Difference in MasterCard World and World Elite?.
20. Does Citi match bonus offers?
Yes. After you activate and link your new card to your online account, send an SM explaining that you heard about a XXK bonus and ask if they can match that bonus to your new card. You have to have a bonus on the existing card. You do not need to explain where you saw the bonus. You do not need to lie, simply read about current bonuses in this thread.
The bonus miles normally appear two days after the end of the next billing cycle.
Currently, you can match up to the lesser of 20,000 miles over your existing offer and 75,000 miles.
If you are rejected, send a new request. If rejected more than once, try sending at a different time of day, use different wording, etc.
21. The CSR told me I was not eligible for the bonus, should I cancel the application??
No. Citi CSRs do not always have complete information. When applying for a card, the CSR can tell that the link is associated with a bonus and that you opened or closed a card within 24 months. However, they cannot tell you whether or not you are eligible for the bonus. Wait for the welcome letter for personal cards or SM after activating a business card if you are unsure.
22. I was following the timing rules but got denied for Multiple Applications for Credit ("MAC"). Why??
Multiple Applications for Credit (or MAC) normally means that you violated one of Citi's application timing rules, like applying for more than two cards in 60 days. Because Citi has trouble counting, applications have been denied in the past if they were too close to 60/90 days. However, starting in August 2016, people have been somewhat randomly getting this denial when applying well outside of the 60/90-day range. CSRs frequently say that you can only apply for a single card in a 60-day period but this is not the case and people who have gotten this denial have gone on to successfully apply for 2 cards in 60 days or less.
You can try to request reconsideration or apply again as if the denial was an approval. You do not have to wait 60+ days from the denial to apply again.
Citi AA cards: All (Platinum, Gold, Executive; Business) 2018
Jan 20, 2018, 3:47 pm
#166
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,055
And I have the same question on mailers. I read they expire 2 months after the date listed in the mailer. Is Citi's count known to be accurate on this? And if so, does that mean you can still apply on the listed date +2 months? Or is the last date the day before the listed date +2 months? ie if the mailer date says Feb 15, can you still apply on April 15, or only by April 14?
Jan 20, 2018, 4:12 pm
#167
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,760
The reps are very nice but this "verification" process is a circus. They ask me to verify phone numbers associated with me...well that doesn't work. Ask for employer's phone number...that doesn't work either. Then finally they ask me for a CC number from a different bank, and they will call that bank to verify.
Then, as I'm on hold...I get a voicemail on my Google Voice number...
Rep comes back on the line saying it will be longer because of long hold times at the other bank. I then told her about the voicemail I received, she got excited and asked for the code that was left in that voicemail. Voila, I'm verified. This was an account which the min spend was done and already paid off.
Calling from my home phone number isn't good enough, but an unregistered VOIP number is.
These people also left a voicemail on a family member's cell phone who lives in another state. No idea how they associated me with that person's number. I'm guessing they're using some sort of Lexisnexus type system.
Then, as I'm on hold...I get a voicemail on my Google Voice number...
Rep comes back on the line saying it will be longer because of long hold times at the other bank. I then told her about the voicemail I received, she got excited and asked for the code that was left in that voicemail. Voila, I'm verified. This was an account which the min spend was done and already paid off.
Calling from my home phone number isn't good enough, but an unregistered VOIP number is.These people also left a voicemail on a family member's cell phone who lives in another state. No idea how they associated me with that person's number. I'm guessing they're using some sort of Lexisnexus type system.
I dont believe the Manila folks actually call some bank to verify your ID.
Jan 20, 2018, 5:13 pm
#169
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,760
On a call the customer initiated to Citi Fraud Dept, the same "other bank's CC" verification method is brought up because the customer was not at home hence the home phone number method would not work. Customer offered the last 4 digits of the card and the name of the bank. After lengthy hold rep came back asked for age of the card, and then the first 4 digits of the card. Rep went back on hold. Then came back to confirm the account is now "fully validated". At no time the rep had the full account number. However the method reported is NOT a scam because in this case, it is used during a phone call the customer initiated to Citi via the number from the back of the AA card, then was transferred to Fraud dept in Manila when the front line rep saw the card was under "temporary block".
The reason I suspect Citi does not call "the other bank" to verify card ownership is, the rep on the above call never had the full account number. He actually needs the first 4 digits to identify the card on some type of report - presumably the same credit report information every bank's fraud / security dept guys used to verify ID. Just that instead of asking where you live 14 years ago, or when was the last car loan you have, (could be none) Citi Security Dept chose to comb thru the reported account number on the report when you can provide one. Now WHY AMEX card does not work is another puzzle.
BTW, this same verification method was questioned by the customer on another subsequent call, this time also initiated by the customer but talked to a US-BASED call center. And the rep at the US-Based call center confirmed this is one of the ways they used.
Last edited by Happy; Jan 20, 2018 at 5:26 pm
Jan 20, 2018, 6:12 pm
#170
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 889
Amex last 4 is always x001, hence useless to verify identity. Other Banks it's essentially random.
Jan 20, 2018, 6:21 pm
#171
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CLT
Programs: AA, UA, BA, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 2,074
The last digit of all credit card #s is a checksum digit (to ensure the full number satisfies the Luhn algorithm).
Jan 20, 2018, 7:51 pm
#172
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,760
I would guess that business cards also cannot be used to verify ID this way due to they are not listed on Credit Reports.
Not quite. https://www.doctorofcredit.com/last-...thday-problem/
The last digit of all credit card #s is a checksum digit (to ensure the full number satisfies the Luhn algorithm).
The last digit of all credit card #s is a checksum digit (to ensure the full number satisfies the Luhn algorithm).
Also this seems to be a valid method employed by Citi to verify ID, and not a scam to fish your other bank's CC.
Last edited by Happy; Jan 20, 2018 at 7:59 pm
Jan 20, 2018, 8:55 pm
#173
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 889
Not quite. https://www.doctorofcredit.com/last-...thday-problem/
The last digit of all credit card #s is a checksum digit (to ensure the full number satisfies the Luhn algorithm).
The last digit of all credit card #s is a checksum digit (to ensure the full number satisfies the Luhn algorithm).
Jan 20, 2018, 11:24 pm
#174
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,477
I've experienced personally that the process really works that way, when a retail store wanted to verify my payment method. The cc bank authorized the payment, but would not disclose the account owner's name. So even with all the weirdness coming from Citi, I do not believe that a major bank would involve its competitor in identity verification.
Jan 21, 2018, 4:40 am
#175
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: Spg Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 1,578
Did they ask for the full number of the account? The reason I asked is, this "other bank's CC" verification has been encountered but the rep only asked what the first 4 digits of the card was and how long the customer has had that card. On top of that, an AMEX card would not work for this purpose according to the Manila rep.
I dont believe the Manila folks actually call some bank to verify your ID.
I dont believe the Manila folks actually call some bank to verify your ID.
The US fraud SPVR can call Chase to verify who you are . They did for me twice on a 3 way call with Chase.
Jan 21, 2018, 8:59 am
#176
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,784
Excellent, that really makes it easy to deal with, Thank You So Much. 👍
Jan 21, 2018, 9:55 am
#177
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,933
That's exactly what 8/65 is about, 1 Citi app in 8 days, 2 Citi apps max in 65 days. Citi does that!
The only thing we know that Citi counts from credit reports is pulls on the one bureau they're checking. Pulls on one bureau is not the same thing as apps! (For example, some banks do pulls for credit line increases too, while some banks don't do pulls for all credit card applications.)
Anyway, obviously the pulls are on the credit report, but Citi only cares about 6 months, while the pulls stay on your credit report for 24 months, and so Citi must do their own math to figure out which pulls are in the last 6 months.
But since these are just pulls on the bureau they're checking, it may just be a fraction of the pulls resulting from cards you applied for at other banks. (But if you've been applying for Citi cards about once a month, you may be near the limit on just that alone, and if Citi is consistent about which bureau they check for you, and some other banks uses the same bureau, and your YMMV limit happens to be 6 pulls in 6 months, that's when you might be in danger of hitting this limit.)
Jan 21, 2018, 11:50 am
#178
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 506
Yes I was asked for the full CC number. No, there are no fraudulent charges on the card. The rep implied that it was going to be a 3-way call, as the above poster noted, presumably to get my consent and such.
The only thing I was scammed out of was the half hour I wasted on the pointless call.
Jan 21, 2018, 2:32 pm
#179
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,477
I called the 800 number that was presented to me when logging into my Citi account.
Yes I was asked for the full CC number. No, there are no fraudulent charges on the card. The rep implied that it was going to be a 3-way call, as the above poster noted, presumably to get my consent and such.
The only thing I was scammed out of was the half hour I wasted on the pointless call.
Yes I was asked for the full CC number. No, there are no fraudulent charges on the card. The rep implied that it was going to be a 3-way call, as the above poster noted, presumably to get my consent and such.
The only thing I was scammed out of was the half hour I wasted on the pointless call.
Jan 21, 2018, 7:38 pm
#180
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,760
TD rep was totally confused by the Chase rep, especially why the Chase rep wanted to know if my TD account had enough balance to support the Transfer OUT. I also did not understand the need of such information because this is a PULLING money from TD to Chase!
I later complained this to my Chase banker who was astonished to learn about this. She heard about clients had similar issue but they verified their accounts by instant method. She said never heard anyone using the deposit method had same experience, added that if the verification was thru deposit method, it should never trigger the locked access and the 3-way call. Well, it did.
Hence I am not surprised the Citi rep would call the other bank for verification. But in the incident I reported, there was NO full account number provided. Only the last 4 and the other bank's name. Then the rep wanted the first 4. It looks to me the rep did not use the 3-way calling method, but went thru the credit report to identify the account instead.
And yes, a Citi US-based Early Warning dept rep confirmed the verification method by using other bank's CC owned by the Citicard holder.
If the alleged cross-bank info sharing were true, it would be violating the bank secrecy laws. When there's a specific charge on a credit card, then the issuing bank would respond whether they'll pay it, given the provided name, account number and amount. But they would not disclose if the person with that name is their customer. Without a charge, there's no basis for them to talk to the other bank at all.
I've experienced personally that the process really works that way, when a retail store wanted to verify my payment method. The cc bank authorized the payment, but would not disclose the account owner's name. So even with all the weirdness coming from Citi, I do not believe that a major bank would involve its competitor in identity verification.
I've experienced personally that the process really works that way, when a retail store wanted to verify my payment method. The cc bank authorized the payment, but would not disclose the account owner's name. So even with all the weirdness coming from Citi, I do not believe that a major bank would involve its competitor in identity verification.
This is NOT the usual card declined due to Fraud Alert, nor the register prompts the cashier to call for approval which is the scenario you described and the call usually goes to a processor, not the bank.
This latest scenario is for the validity of the card - whether it is applied by the cardholder himself or fraudulently applied, plus whether the card is activated by the rightful owner or by someone else who intercepted the card. Because the question of "Are you the person activated the card online?" is asked, I start to think that activate the card by phone and talk to Security Dept to make sure a "full validation" is done, probably is a prudent approach in current Citi practice.
You can choose to stay skeptical but as you can read here, there are already THREE posters reported such experience. PETERNYC's post quoted above said Citi has done this TWICE, calling Chase bank to verify his ID in case you miss his post. I also has Chase calling TD to verify my bank account ownership. And this was like 10 months ago.
Chase obviously is The Major Bank. Not only Chase would share the account ownership with other banks, but itself also wants the information from other banks about account ownership, plus the condition of the account balance, as in my own experience. So banks are sharing those information when the need arises. Do you think if this is against the Bank Secrecy Act, Chase would answer Citi's questions? Or it will call TD to ask questions?
If Chase is doing the same account information sharing, it definitely is not against the Bank Secrecy Act. It is just common sense. They probably are The most compliant bank now after being fined multiple billions that even Dimon could not wiggle out. That is why Chase is the first bank and probably the only bank, would give you 30 days to take care of your points even if they shut you down, as well as refund you the AF on any fee-based card. They dont want to be sued again either by customers individually or a class lawsuit or by the government. So I feel comfortable about this new mechanism Citi employed. Besides, after all the bank has your full credit report on which all your financial accounts current or closed, are listed there. They also see the available balance and the usage - the full history is on your credit report.
Hence I believe your understanding of the complex law is incomplete. As illustrated by PETERNYC post and my own experience with Chase, Banks DO share information of account ownership - by default, that means the name of the account that you claim it is against the law. It isn't.
Last edited by Happy; Jan 22, 2018 at 8:59 am