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Citi AA Plat/Gold/Bus cards. August 2016: 1 personal & 1 business bonus/24 months.

Citi AA Plat/Gold/Bus cards. August 2016: 1 personal & 1 business bonus/24 months.

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Old Dec 27, 17, 2:25 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: muji
Wiki Link
Please read this wiki before posting questions in the thread.

All PUBLIC Citi AAdvantage personal card links now deny bonus miles for personal card accounts if you have opened or closed any Citi AAdvantage personal (gold, platinum, exec) card in the past 24 months.

All PUBLIC Citi AAdvantage business card links now deny bonus miles for business card accounts if you have opened or closed any Citi AAdvantage business card in the past 24 months.


See FAQ #1 below for additional details.
See FAQ #3 below for a way around the 24-month restriction.
Previous threads (now closed) on this topic are available for 2013-2014, 2015, and the first 7 months of 2016.

For information on the Executive version of this card, see: Citi Executive AA thread

Recommended application procedure:
Clear cache and cookies prior to applying or use an incognito or private browsing session to apply. Opening multiple different apps in different windows or tabs or failing to clear cookies/cache has resulted in people receiving a lesser offer.

Table of Contents
Top personal card offers

Top business card offers

Other personal cards

Other business cards

Citibank contacts/resources

Frequently Asked Questions
  1. Are these AA cards churnable?

  2. Does a product change or card conversion count as a card open/close that resets the 24-month clock?

  3. Is there any way around the 24-month restriction?

  4. What are the most current time-restriction rules in applying for all Citi cards?

  5. Do I need to close existing cards before applying?

  6. When should I close existing Citi accounts?

  7. Can I apply for a business card if I don’t have a business?

  8. Can I buy Visa gift cards to meet my minimum spend?

  9. Do I have to use my own AAdvantage number on applications?

  10. There is nothing on the application page stating the bonus miles. How do I know what the associated offer is?

  11. After approval, how can I a) confirm the amount of the bonus I can earn and b) determine the deadline for completing the required spend?

  12. When will my bonus miles post?

  13. Do I get 10% back when redeeming miles for awards?

  14. Can I cancel a card using secure messaging?

  15. Which credit bureau does Citi pull and can I force them to use a different one?

  16. When is the 60K (75K, 100K, etc.) offer going to come back?

  17. Is my card World (W) or World Elite (WE)?

  18. Why and when does Citi convert cards to World Elite? Can I do anything to trigger the conversion?

  19. What's the difference between World and World Elite cards?

  20. Does Citi match bonus offers?

  21. The CSR told me I was not eligible for the bonus, should I cancel the application?

Top personal card offers (currently 60K)

For the sake of continuity, please do not renumber items in this list. Links are listed in chronological order (newest ones last).

Note: except as noted, application pages for offers in this section contain the following (or substantially similar) language:
American Airlines AAdvantage bonus miles are not available if you have had any Citi / AAdvantage card (other than a CitiBusiness/AAdvantage card) opened or closed in the past 24 months.
33) Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 60K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; application page.


Top business card offers (currently 60K)

For the sake of continuity, please do not renumber items in this list. Links are listed in chronological order (newest ones last).

Except as noted below, all offers in this section contain language stating that
This card is not available if the business already has a CitiBusiness/AAdvantage Platinum Select World MasterCard account. Bonus miles and any additional special offer not available if you have had any CitiBusiness/AAdvantage account opened or closed in the past 24 months.
Prior to August 11, 2016, the standard language read as follows:
Bonus miles not available if you have had a CitiBusiness/AAdvantage Platinum Select World MasterCard opened or closed in the past 24 months.
Q) Landing page for business Platinum Select World MC offer for 60K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; application page.

R) Landing page for business Platinum Select World MC offer for 60K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; application page.


Other personal cards

24) Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 50K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; a) original application page, b) replacement application page, c) current application page - 4/19/2017.

30) Application page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 50K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year. Application page.

32) Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 40K miles after $1000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year. Application page.

26) Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 30K miles after $1000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; a) new 30K application page b) original 50K application page. Expired ~ Apr. 18, 2017.

28) Landing page for personal Platinum Select World Elite MC offer for 30K miles after $1000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; a) new 30K/$1K application page, b) original 50K application page. Expired ~ Apr 18, 2017.

Landing page for Citi Gold Mastercard offer for 25,000 miles after $750 spend in 3 months. $50 annual fee, waived first year; current application page, prior application page.
  • Note: offer terms now state that
    American Airlines AAdvantage bonus miles are not available if you have had any Citi / AAdvantage card (other than a CitiBusiness/AAdvantage card) opened or closed in the past 24 months.
    Prior to August 11, 2016, the standard language was less restrictive:
    American Airlines AAdvantage bonus miles not available if you have had a Citi/AAdvantage Gold MasterCard opened or closed in the past 24 months.


Other business cards

K) Landing page for business Platinum Select World MC offer for 50K miles after $3000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year. Current (third) application page.

Landing page for CitiBusiness Platinum Select MC offer for 30K miles after $1000 spend in 3 months, $95 fee waived first year; Application page.



Citibank contacts/resources
  • Inquiry form for prequalified offers: https://www.citicards.com/cards/cred...on~BrowseCards
  • Application status: https://www.accountonline.com/cards/...?screenID=3187
  • (800) 695-5171 – Personal Application Status and Reconsideration Line with live rep
  • (800) 763-9795 – General Personal Application Inquiries with live rep
  • (800) 645-7240 – Business Application Status and Reconsideration Line; press 1 for English and then follow prompts
  • (800) 288-4653 – Business Application Status and Reconsideration Line; press 1 for English and then follow prompts
  • (866) 606-2787 – General Application and Account Questions with live rep
  • (888) 201-4523 – Application status
  • (866) 606-2961 – Reconsideration Line.
  • Twitter : @AskCiti. Very powerful tool.
  • Executive Office - useful for getting a more empowered agent for reconsideration purposes: CitiBank Executive Review Department, P.O. Box 6000, Sioux Falls, SD 57117


Frequently Asked Questions

The FAQs below will almost certainly answer questions you have about Citi AA Platinum, Gold, and CitiBusiness cards. Do not post in the thread "just to double-check if the wiki is correct"; the wiki is here to avoid having people ask the same questions endlessly. With few exceptions, Citi CSRs and bloggers spread a great deal of misinformation.


1. Are these AA cards churnable?
Yes and no. The general rules are:
  • Personal AA cards: As of August 11, 2016, all public offers require you to wait 24 months from the date of opening or closing any other personal Citi/AAdvantage account, regardless of type (AmEx, Visa, MC) or category (Gold, Platinum, Executive). This includes voluntary and involuntary conversion of an AA Personal card of any type.

If you violate the 24-month rule, Citi may still issue you the card but you will not get the bonus.

Most of the above rules are new for Citi. Prior to December 2015, receiving the card meant receiving the bonus. Prior to August 2016, the card type and category mattered.
  • Business AA cards: As of April 22, 2016, all public business card offers contain a 24-month restriction, as noted above.

Note that beginning in late 2014, new Citi AA business card offers began including the explicit requirement that the applicant not be an existing AA business cardholder. This language has not been uniformly enforced.

When closing a business card, be sure to completely cancel the full account; send an SM or call and request that the account, ending in XXXX and the associated cards, ending in YYYY (etc.) be closed, including the master account. (The master account is the actual line of credit, while the cards are the individual cards associated with each employee of the business.) To find the master account number, go to your online account and select the card you want to close. In the bottom left corner there is a dropdown box next to "Cardholder:" that has the master account and any card accounts listed.


2. Does a product change or card conversion count as a card open/close that resets the 24-month clock?

Yes. Downgrading to a different card (aka a "product change" or PC) counts as closing the AA card. This includes downgrades from AA Platinum to Gold as well as downgrades to non-AA cards. A similar rule has also been true for involuntary, Citi-initiated conversions of legacy, no-longer-issued AA Visa & Amex cards to MasterCards; these events are both a closure (of the old card) and an opening (of the replacement MC).


3. Is there any way around the 24-month restriction?
Yes. As of August 2016, there are two ways.
a) Targeted mailer offers Numerous FTers received physical mailers with unique invitation codes since 2015 in which the T&C do not contain the 24-month restriction language. E-mailed mailers do not circumvent the 24-month rules even though the application page does not have 24-month language.

The T&C for these offers will typically say instead that they are "applicable only to new accounts." This is nothing to worry about; all it means is that Citi won't retroactively match you to the offer on an account you already have; it doesn't disqualify someone who has a Citi AA card or has ever had one. Note: not all mailer offers are worded this way; some contain the standard 24-month restriction, so it is important to read closely.

If you would like to get targeted mailers, it is best not to have had a Citi AA card in the recent past. A number of people have gotten mailers by creating an AAdvantage account for a family member with the same last name at their address. Mailers usually start to show up a few months after an AAdvantage account is created, and stop coming once the mailers for that account begin to be used. Frequency of mailers varies widely.

Other noteworthy aspects:
  • In order to access the application page, you must have both the 9-digit or 12-digit invitation code and the surname of the offer recipient.
  • After you authenticate the offer code and are redirected to the application page, you may enter a completely different applicant name and address. (Caution: 12-digit mailers may allow the name change only to deny the application.)
  • Offers do not always expire on the nominal expiration shown on the mailer. Offers with 9-digit codes that direct you to citi.com/applynowAAplatinumselectcard generally last an extra 2 months (i.e., a mailer with a stated May 15 expiration was fully valid through July 14).
  • Invitation codes cannot be re-used by the same individual, you will receive an instant denial for such applications.
  • Mailers can be used repeatedly by different people. the limit is unknown but is at least in the 5-6 range.
  • Use of the mailer by the named individual will cause the mailers to stop coming for that individual.

b) Pre-qualified offers Multiple FTers (ref; ref) have reported receiving pre-qualified offers that do not include the 24-month/card-family restriction.

You can check for pre-qualified offers here. A good results page will have a heading that starts "[NAME], you're Pre-Qualified to apply for the following credit cards offers." A page that starts with "[NAME], we couldn't match your records to a Pre-Qualified credit card offer. See below for [X number] other cards you may like" does NOT contain a prequalified offer even if the page displays more than X offers; the offers presented will almost certainly contain (and Citi will enforce) the 24-month language.

4. What are the most current time-restriction rules in applying for all Citi cards?
  • No more than 2 Citi applications of any kind in 60 days (65 days to be safe).
  • No more than 1 CitiBusiness application in 90 days (95 days to be safe).


Citi has been known to miscount in some cases. As a result, it is inadvisable to apply again exactly on day 60 or 90--thus the advice to wait 65 or 95 days.

For purposes of these rules,
  • count all Citi applications, including denials and/or applications for non-AA cards.
  • the only day that matters is the application date (not approval date, not activation date).
  • count all calendar days, not just business days.

If you get denied for violating any of these rules, you will probably have to wait the full time period (60+/90+ days) before trying again. Use this calculator to establish your dates: http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadd.html

In addition, FT lore has evolved into soft guidance that you apply for no more than one Citi card (of any kind) in any 8-day period. This is merely prudential guidance, not clearly established Citi policy; there are examples of people applying for two cards in a single day and being approved for the second. However, multiple Citi applications in a short time frame do appear, at least anecdotally, to increase the odds of the second application being denied. (You may see FTers refer to "the 8/65 rule," which refers to this soft guidance plus the strict 60-day rule noted above.)

An example of the guidance above applied in combination:
Day 1 Apply for 50K HHonors - Starts 60-day and 24-month clocks. No apps of any kind recommended for 8 days.
Day 9 Apply for 50K AA Personal Plat MC - Starts 24-month clock for personal Plat MC & resets 60-day clock.
Day 66 Apply for 50K AA Business - Starts 24-month clock for biz card apps, starts 90-day clock for CitiBusiness cards & resets 60-day clock. No apps of any kind recommended for 8 days.
Day 74 Apply for 50K TYP Card - Starts 24-month clock for TYP & resets 60-day clock. No apps of any kind recommended for 8 days.
Day 161 - Open Costco Business card/Close CitiBusiness AA card - Restarts 24-month clock for CitiBusiness AA apps, restarts 90-day clock for CitiBusiness cards & resets 60-day clock. No apps of any kind recommended for 8 days.
Day 9 plus 24 months Apply for 50K AA personal plat MC - As long as you have not closed the Day 9 card in the previous 24 months (as that would have reset the 24-month personal card clock).
Day 161 plus 24 months - Apply for 50K AA Business . . .
Not sure what day you applied? The date is written year, month, day in the application number: 201702150000 means you applied on February 15, 2017.


5. Do I need to close existing cards before applying?
There is no requirement that you close previous personal accounts. In fact, with the new applications that include 24-month language, closing accounts will increase the time between applications. People have reported having 6 or more of the exact same card.

The rules for Business accounts vary by individual. Some people can only get a single business card in their lifetime. Others can only get a new business card if their previous business cards are closed. This requires the master account and all employee accounts be closed see FAQ #1 above. Still others can have multiple business accounts open. It is unknown why people end up in one pool versus another. The only way to figure out which pool you are in is to test it out. With the new 24-month language, it is safest to completely close business accounts as soon as the bonus is received.


6. When should I close existing Citi accounts?
Citi cards can be closed immediately after receiving a bonus and paying off the balance. There are no verifiable reports of Citi clawing back miles except in cases where charges forming part of the required bonus spend are later reversed (for merchandise return, etc.).

Reasons to keep accounts open:
  • Having large credit lines improves your utilization percentage.
  • Maintaining old cards improves average age of cards.
  • Credit lines can be moved from old cards to new cards.
  • Anecdotal evidence suggests that Citi counts the credit lines of recently-closed accounts for 3-6 months against your total available credit. You can call/SM to reduce credit lines instead or prior to closing to free CL more quickly.
  • You can receive retention offers once every 6 months per card. See this thread for details on the latest retention offers.
  • Closing cards now resets the clock for future applications for the same type and category of card.

Reasons to close accounts:
  • Having a large amount of available credit with Citi will eventually reduce your chances of instant approval. You may end up with 1K/2K credit lines, especially on Business cards. You can also SM and request that your CL be reduced.
  • There is little incentive to pay an annual fee if Citi does not ofset it with a credit.
  • Citi has become stingier with credits to offset annual fee.
  • Having a large number of open Citi cards will show up on your credit report and may affect non-Citi applications as well as the overall age of your accounts.
  • Closing multiple accounts of the same type and category simultaneously resets the clock only once. Doing so shortly after opening a new account minimizes the wait for future churn eligibility.


7. Can I apply for a business card if I don’t have a business?
Anyone can apply for a business card. You do not need a registered business with an EIN. If you do not have a business with an EIN or with bills/accounts in the business name, you can apply using your name as the business. The three possibilities are that: 1. You could be approved unconditionally, 2. You could be asked to fax a couple of bills or accounts (water, electricity, gas, cable, or phone bills, bank accounts, etc.) in the name of the business to Citi, or 3. You could be required to fill out and send a 4506-T tax form. Whatever you do do not make up income etc. about the business. Plenty of people have been issued multiple cards for businesses with $0 annual revenue, 1-5 employees, and 0 years in business. While it may seem that your chances are better with an 'actual' business, Citi does not care.


8. Can I buy Visa gift cards to meet my minimum spend?
Purchases from banks are almost always coded as a cash advance regardless of what they are for. Purchases from stores, e.g. CVS, are almost always coded as a purchase. Citi is not very vigilant about policing MS.

If you are concerned about it, it’s recommended to send a secure message Citi and have them set your Cash Advance limit to zero. Phone CSRs often say they cannot do this.


9. Do I have to use my own AAdvantage number on applications?
Yes. The name on the card application must match the name on the AAdvantage account. You cannot apply for multiple cards for different people and use the same AAdvantage account number. People have reported having as many as 6-7 open Citi AA cards.


10. There is nothing on the application page stating the bonus miles. How do I know what the associated offer is?
You need to have faith in the readers of this thread if you want to maximize your miles. FTers constantly apply for these cards and report back to confirm bonus amounts. If you don't feel like trusting in the experiences of others, then apply for an offer with a landing page.


11. After approval, how can I a) confirm the amount of the bonus I can earn and b) determine the deadline for completing the required spend?
For personal and business cards, you can always send Citi a secure message through your online account to confirm your bonus amount and deadline. (You must first activate the card and set up online access, either by creating an online account or by linking your new card to your existing online account. Unlike some other banks, Citi does not automatically add your new card to your existing online account.)

Note for for Business cards only: Approval letters for business cards do not confirm the bonus.


In addition, for personal cards only (and perhaps only for online applications), there are two additional indicators:
  1. The approval letter for a personal card will confirm the amount of the bonus for which you are eligible, but not the spend deadline. (As noted in FAQ #1 above, Citi may approve you for a personal card even if you do not qualify for a bonus. No bonus language in the letter means no bonus.)
  2. In many cases, your online account for a personal card also provides information on eligible bonus and spend deadline. Log into your Citi account and select the applicable card. On the Account Details page you'll see a "My Miles Summary" link; click that link, scroll down, and you will see a pie-chart graphic showing the spend deadline and your progress as of your last statement. (Charges made since your last statement are not included in this total.)

    Starting in autumn 2016, some users reported that they had no tracker in their accounts despite being bonus-eligible. If your welcome letter confirmed the bonus, you will receive it regardless of the presence/absence of the online tracker. (In other words, the presence of the tracker reaffirms what was conveyed in your approval letter, but its absence proves nothing either way.)
Note that these are the only reliable indicators. Asking a Citi phone CSR immediately after you are approved is NOT a sound approach. Such CSRs can only tell you what the bonus offer terms were, not whether you are eligible. (This is because Citi will issue you a card even if you are ineligible for the signup bonus.)


12. When will my bonus miles post?
Roughly 2-3 days after the date of the statement containing the charge that takes you across the spend threshold.


13. Do I get 10% back when redeeming miles for awards?
It depends. First, the rebate program (which began in April 2012) applies only to holders of these cards:
  • Citi Platinum Select AAdvantage Visa Signature
  • Citi Platinum Select AAdvantage World MasterCard
  • Citi Platinum Select AAdvantage World Elite MasterCard
  • Citi Select AAdvantage American Express
It does not apply to the Citi Gold World MasterCard, Citi Executive products, or some of the Citi Business cards.

Also, the maximum rebate for any cardholder in a single calendar year is 10,000 miles. Having more than one qualifying Citi AA card will not allow you to receive a larger rebate; the restriction applies per AAdvantage account.

For more on the 10% rebate benefit, see AAdvantage Citi / Barclays 10% miles / mileage rebate (consolidated).


14. Can I cancel a card using secure messaging?
Yes, assuming you have set up the credit card in your Citi account. Quick and easy.


15. Which credit bureau does Citi pull and can I force them to use a different one?
Citi appears to use Experian most frequently, followed by Equifax. For some people they pull both. It depends on where you are located. You can check the Credit Boards database to see where card issuers have pulled recently.

For the most part, freezing Experian, or another bureau, will not cause Citi to pull a different bureau. They will almost certainly require you to unfreeze the bureau they wish to pull or deny your application. Some people have been successful providing the PIN but others have not. Mostly, freezing a credit bureau in an attempt to force Citi to pull a different one seems to waste time, money, and effort for little result. But YMMV.

For one person's experiences with various card issuers, check here.


16. When is the 60K (75K, 100K, etc.) offer going to come back?
Nobody knows except Citi & they don't announce these things in advance. If we knew, we'd be talking about it non-stop. Please don't ask about it periodically in the thread.

If you want to make yourself useful, you can easily look for new offers by testing the URLs
  • away*.citicards.com
  • fly*.citicards.com
  • travel*.citicards.com
  • miles*.citicards.com
  • go*.citicards.com
  • aadvantagecards*.citicards.com
where * is any digit in the range 1-9.


17. Is my card World (W) or World Elite (WE)?
It was once useful to know if your card is World (W) or World Elite (WE) because of a loophole that previously allowed applicants to open new accounts and earn signup bonuses less than 24 months since the last open/close of the same card type. That loophole has been closed. (See FAQ #1 above for more information.)
Physical card
  • If your card is W the back of the card will say "World" and have a red and yellow MasterCard logo.
  • If your card is WE the back of the card will say "World Elite" and have a silver MasterCard logo.
Online account
  • If your card has been converted, the summary for that card (on the home Accounts page) will include, at the bottom, a line with a green flag and the legend "We've mailed your new Citi card. After it arrives, activate it for use. Learn more Activate"

In the alternative,
  • Log into your online account.
  • Select "Account Management"
  • Select "Profile & Settings"
  • Select "Set Default Credit Card"
Platinum
  • If the card is listed as "Citi® / AAdvantage® Platinum Select® World MasterCard®" it is W.
  • If the card is listed as "Citi® / AAdvantage® Platinum Select®" it is WE.
Gold
  • If the card is listed as "Citi® / AAdvantage® Gold World MasterCard®" it is W.
  • If the card is listed as "Citi® / AAdvantage® Gold" it is WE.

18. Why and when does Citi convert cards to World Elite? Can I do anything to trigger the conversion?
Citi appears to convert recently opened World MCs to World Elite en masse at periodic intervals once every few months. For most new cardholders, this will occur in the second or third full billing cycle; for holders of legacy Citi AA VISA or Amex cards, the conversion may occur at any time.

There is nothing you can do as a cardholder to trigger the conversion.


19. What's the difference between World and World Elite cards?
See the wiki at Difference in MasterCard World and World Elite?.


20. Does Citi match bonus offers?
Yes. After you activate and link your new card to your online account, send an SM explaining that you heard about a XXK bonus and ask if they can match that bonus to your new card. You have to have a bonus on the existing card. You do not need to explain where you saw the bonus. You do not need to lie, simply read about current bonuses in this thread.

The bonus miles normally appear two days after the end of the billing cycle.

Some examples that make no sense:
  • Offer: 40,000 miles for spending $3000 in 3 months and an additional 10,000 miles for spending a total of $5000 in 12 months. Request: Match to 60K for $3K in 3 months offer. Receive: Additional 20K miles.
  • Offer: 30,000 miles for spending $1000 in 3 months. Request: Match to 50K miles for $3K spend in 3 months. Receive: Additional 20K miles.

As with all things Citi, YMMV but both of the above have been done.


21. The CSR told me I was not eligible for the bonus, should I cancel the application??
No. Citi CSRs do not always have complete information. When applying for a card, the CSR can tell that the link is associated with a bonus and that you opened or closed a card within 24 months. However, they cannot tell you whether or not you are eligible for the bonus. Wait for the welcome letter for personal cards or SM after activating a business card if you are unsure.
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Old Aug 22, 16, 3:51 pm
  #166  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: TPA
Programs: AA Plat; Marriott Gold; IHG Gold
Posts: 2,341
Originally Posted by nineworldseries View Post
I'm (barely) surprised at all of the experts in this thread and on the wiki who claim to have definitive knowledge of Citi's new policies. The truth is, we have no idea whether DoC's claim of August 28th is accurate or not, but most data points I've seen so far point to it being true.
Has anyone claimed such definitive knowledge?

I'm not sure where the Aug 11 claim in the wiki came from. If it was incorrect, then all the data points can tell us so far is "not yet". We won't know "true" or not until they change or until we hit the 28th, whichever comes first.

Which is not to say I don't think DoC is right; we just don't know yet.
SpammersAreScum is offline  
Old Aug 22, 16, 5:16 pm
  #167  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 46
Legacy Citi AA Visa cards conversion effect

I could not find (sufficient) information in the wiki about product conversions affecting the eligibility to earn bonus miles offer. My situation is the following:

1. Legacy Citi AA Visa opened in 2011 auto converted to Citi AA MC in Summer 2016
2. Legacy Citi AA Visa opened in 2013 converted to Citi DoubleCash on 4/7/2015

Do these affect my 24-month clock, i.e. any of the above is counted as Citi AA MC open or close transactions?

Is this discussed in another thread? I'm wondering why other people are not in this situation, when the "opened or closed" language is less than 24 months old, and one might have closed or converted the Legacy Citi AA Visa cards without thinking much about it.
kroozer is offline  
Old Aug 22, 16, 5:55 pm
  #168  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 8
Data Point and Question

Originally Posted by beltway View Post
The only thing that's new in August--whether it started August 11 or doesn't take effect until August 28--is the card-family restriction. Citi's (near-)blanket policy has had a 24-mo restriction in it for some time.

Even if you credit what DoC says (and we do have supporting data points), my personal approach would be
  • assume that the worst policy of those seen on landing/app/T&C applies; and
  • assume that any 24-mo/card-family clause imposes a 24-mo same-card-open/close restriction from now until the 28th.

I am a pessimist. YMMV.
I closed a AAdvantage Platinum MasterCard 18 months ago. About three weeks ago, I applied using a 50k bonus mailer without the 24 month restriction which was sent to a family member with a same last name but different address. I got a pending notice, and couldn't get approved by phone. Was told to wait a week, and was approved around last week. Since then, I found a 40k bonus mailer that is in my name and which expires next month. I would like to use this mailer once more.

Here are my questions

1. Do I understand correctly that the new family-card restrictions do not apply to mailers that do not have the 24 month restriction? That is to say, would it matter whether my use of the 40k mailer (which does not have the 24 month restriction) occurred before or after August 28?

2. Are there any data points concerning the success of mailer applications that occur within the same month? I am aware of the 2 applications within 65 day rule. And even if I apply now, I would be within that rule. My question is whether my chances of approval for my second AAdvantage Platinum card using a mailer would be greater if I waited until next month. My last approval using the mailer for the same card happened about a week ago. I am wary of applying now given that my last application was not an auto approval. My FICO score is high 700s.

Thanks.
peabody is offline  
Old Aug 22, 16, 7:12 pm
  #169  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: TPA
Programs: AA Plat; Marriott Gold; IHG Gold
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Originally Posted by peabody View Post
I closed a AAdvantage Platinum MasterCard 18 months ago. About three weeks ago, I applied using a 50k bonus mailer without the 24 month restriction which was sent to a family member with a same last name but different address. I got a pending notice, and couldn't get approved by phone. Was told to wait a week, and was approved around last week. Since then, I found a 40k bonus mailer that is in my name and which expires next month. I would like to use this mailer once more.

Here are my questions

1. Do I understand correctly that the new family-card restrictions do not apply to mailers that do not have the 24 month restriction? That is to say, would it matter whether my use of the 40k mailer (which does not have the 24 month restriction) occurred before or after August 28?

2. Are there any data points concerning the success of mailer applications that occur within the same month? I am aware of the 2 applications within 65 day rule. And even if I apply now, I would be within that rule. My question is whether my chances of approval for my second AAdvantage Platinum card using a mailer would be greater if I waited until next month. My last approval using the mailer for the same card happened about a week ago. I am wary of applying now given that my last application was not an auto approval. My FICO score is high 700s.

Thanks.
The prediction is that, on Aug 28, all active public offers will have the "family card restriction". That's it. No-one is saying that there will be a new blanket policy which overrides what's in an offer/application or in some other way "applies" to it; the only thing that matters is what's stated for the application you are submitting. Whether the family card restriction appears somewhere in the offer, Terms & Conditions, application form, or other fine print attached to your publicly-available or targeted offer, and whether you're past the offer's expiration date (if any), is what matters.

The only caveat would be that that fine print might say something like "offer subject to withdrawal at any time", in which case Citi could decide not to honor it after the 28th or any other date of their choosing. But that would mean rejecting your application, not approving it and then denying the bonus.
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Old Aug 22, 16, 7:47 pm
  #170  
 
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Originally Posted by kroozer View Post
I could not find (sufficient) information in the wiki about product conversions affecting the eligibility to earn bonus miles offer. My situation is the following:

1. Legacy Citi AA Visa opened in 2011 auto converted to Citi AA MC in Summer 2016
2. Legacy Citi AA Visa opened in 2013 converted to Citi DoubleCash on 4/7/2015

Do these affect my 24-month clock, i.e. any of the above is counted as Citi AA MC open or close transactions?

Is this discussed in another thread? I'm wondering why other people are not in this situation, when the "opened or closed" language is less than 24 months old, and one might have closed or converted the Legacy Citi AA Visa cards without thinking much about it.
Under the "non-family" 24-month language, closing a Visa has no bearing on getting the bonus on an MC.

Here we see the downside of rolling over into a new thread when a major change occurs -- sometimes info in the old thread (still linked in the current wiki) is still useful. It has complaints from people that their Visa was auto-converted, because they would have preferred to cancel the Visa then apply for the MC to get the bonus, and now they can't get it. I suspect they're right, but I don't know whether anyone's actually confirmed it. You're welcome to give it a try, or -- assuming the conversion in 1 was to an MC Platinum -- apply for an MC Gold or Executive which works under the current language.

I believe that converting an AA card to something else counts as a closing. But see Visa-closing note above.
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Old Aug 22, 16, 8:25 pm
  #171  
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Originally Posted by SpammersAreScum View Post
Under the "non-family" 24-month language, closing a Visa has no bearing on getting the bonus on an MC.

Here we see the downside of rolling over into a new thread when a major change occurs -- sometimes info in the old thread (still linked in the current wiki) is still useful. It has complaints from people that their Visa was auto-converted, because they would have preferred to cancel the Visa then apply for the MC to get the bonus, and now they can't get it. I suspect they're right, but I don't know whether anyone's actually confirmed it. You're welcome to give it a try, or -- assuming the conversion in 1 was to an MC Platinum -- apply for an MC Gold or Executive which works under the current language.

I believe that converting an AA card to something else counts as a closing. But see Visa-closing note above.
Furthermore, we don't know yet how exactly Citi will count families. Ie, how far back will they go for products that no longer exist? Will there be a "loophole" for Visas and/or Amexes simply because they forgot to include the Visa and/or Amex on the list of AA personal cards (inside their system)? Or will they be thorough and put in all cards that existed 2 years ago (even if they stopped issuing them more than 2 years ago)?

I can envision some sloppy coding resulting in a loophole for some old type of personal card, roughly similar to the way sloppy coding is what presumably resulted in the W->WE loophole of the semi-recent past. Though since this is Citi-wide change, such a loophole, if it occurs, might occur only for AA, or only for TYP, etc.

Last edited by sdsearch; Aug 22, 16 at 8:30 pm
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Old Aug 22, 16, 10:10 pm
  #172  
 
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Got instant denied on my first Citi app in a while. Previous EXP pulls 6/2016, 5/2016, 3 in 3/2016 (biz card) and one 2/25/2016. Also discovered apartment application earlier today resulted in a hard pull, which doesn't seem right.

Was I screwed either way b/c of 2/25 and apartment application? Or should I try for recon?
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Old Aug 22, 16, 11:33 pm
  #173  
 
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Originally Posted by SpammersAreScum View Post
Under the "non-family" 24-month language, closing a Visa has no bearing on getting the bonus on an MC.

... the old thread ... has complaints from people that their Visa was auto-converted, because they would have preferred to cancel the Visa then apply for the MC to get the bonus, and now they can't get it. I suspect they're right, but I don't know whether anyone's actually confirmed it.
Thank you for your responses. Anyone else recall any post confirming that auto-conversion of their Visa to MC Platinum reset the 18-month of 24-month clock? I read a lot of pages but don't follow the thread regularly.

Originally Posted by SpammersAreScum View Post
You're welcome to give it a try, or -- assuming the conversion in 1 was to an MC Platinum -- apply for an MC Gold or Executive which works under the current language.
Yes conversion was from Legacy Visa Platinum to MC Platinum. Exec has high fee + higher spend and Gold has fewer bonus miles, thus interested in the Platinum. If I try AA MC Platinum now and fail (assuming card approved, but no bonus mentioned in approval notice and no bonus tracker) how do I confirm the reason for bonus denied?

Originally Posted by SpammersAreScum View Post
I believe that converting an AA card to something else counts as a closing. But see Visa-closing note above.
FAQ#1 mentions this as true "in the past", leaving open the current possibility or at least indicating data points are not recent, and maybe different now. I would like to suggest to the power users on this thread that the Wiki facts should link to specific posts for evidence, similar to how DoC does on their blog.
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Old Aug 23, 16, 4:50 am
  #174  
 
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Originally Posted by kroozer View Post
Thank you for your responses. Anyone else recall any post confirming that auto-conversion of their Visa to MC Platinum reset the 18-month of 24-month clock? I read a lot of pages but don't follow the thread regularly.
[...]
FAQ#1 mentions this as true "in the past", leaving open the current possibility or at least indicating data points are not recent, and maybe different now. I would like to suggest to the power users on this thread that the Wiki facts should link to specific posts for evidence, similar to how DoC does on their blog.
Apparently further clarification is in order:
  • I added that language because the comment yesterday about its absence was a fair comment.
  • One likely reason for its prior absence was that for anyone actually following the thread, there was a constant stream of data points earlier this year showing that conversion = open and/or close. (Of course, the "close" part was unimportant until now.) That has abated, probably because Citi has converted the vast majority of the legacy Visa/Amex cards.
  • "In the past" really does mean that. If there were some intent to convey that the times are a-changin', the wiki would say that.
  • If you want data points, a search in the thread for "convert," "converted," or "conversion" will turn up more than you can shake a stick at, even if you are very good at shaking sticks. Feel free to post links to them & I'll update the wiki.
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Old Aug 23, 16, 7:52 am
  #175  
 
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Originally Posted by StatusChallenged View Post
Got instant denied on my first Citi app in a while. Previous EXP pulls 6/2016, 5/2016, 3 in 3/2016 (biz card) and one 2/25/2016. Also discovered apartment application earlier today resulted in a hard pull, which doesn't seem right.

Was I screwed either way b/c of 2/25 and apartment application? Or should I try for recon?
See this data point for possible ideas: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27086201-post118.html
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Old Aug 23, 16, 8:09 am
  #176  
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Originally Posted by italdesign View Post
I'm seeing everything you describe. However, in my case the actual T&C only has the "This offer is only valid for new accounts" language. It doesn't have any other anti-churning restriction.

.

Be sure to click through to the application page. The T & C page may not say it, but, with your next click, the application might feature the 24 month language boldly, at the top. If it doesn't, you've hit the jackpot.
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Old Aug 23, 16, 8:26 am
  #177  
 
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Originally Posted by italdesign View Post
I'm seeing everything you describe. However, in my case the actual T&C only has the "This offer is only valid for new accounts" language. It doesn't have any other anti-churning restriction.

IF DoC is correct that the 24mo/card family language (which is in landing page and top of app page, but not in T&C) doesn't go into effect until 28th, does that mean I qualify for this offer until then?

Sorry if I missed previous affirmation.
Originally Posted by StartinSanDiego View Post
Be sure to click through to the application page. The T & C page may not say it, but, with your next click, the application might feature the 24 month language boldly, at the top. If it doesn't, you've hit the jackpot.
I can confirm that the "This offer is only valid for new accounts" language was included on my 8/8 application ("Pre-Qualified" offer on citi's website), which was approved, and the bonus has been confirmed (welcome letter and bonus tracker), so I don't think that language actually matters in this instance. To me, it means that the bonus for the new card can't be applied to a different/existing card.

That language was also included in the targeted mailer that I recently applied for. I haven't received the welcome letter yet, so we'll see if this still holds true.
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Old Aug 23, 16, 9:58 am
  #178  
mia
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Originally Posted by NTP9766 View Post
"This offer is only valid for new accounts"
This language has been in Citi offers for many years. It only means that if you already hold the same card you cannot retroactively apply a new offer to it.
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Old Aug 23, 16, 11:30 am
  #179  
 
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Originally Posted by kroozer View Post
Thank you for your responses. Anyone else recall any post confirming that auto-conversion of their Visa to MC Platinum reset the 18-month of 24-month clock? I read a lot of pages but don't follow the thread regularly.

Yes conversion was from Legacy Visa Platinum to MC Platinum. Exec has high fee + higher spend and Gold has fewer bonus miles, thus interested in the Platinum. If I try AA MC Platinum now and fail (assuming card approved, but no bonus mentioned in approval notice and no bonus tracker) how do I confirm the reason for bonus denied?

FAQ#1 mentions this as true "in the past", leaving open the current possibility or at least indicating data points are not recent, and maybe different now. I would like to suggest to the power users on this thread that the Wiki facts should link to specific posts for evidence, similar to how DoC does on their blog.
For further clarification:
Your conversion from AA Visa to AA MC would affect your 24-month clock. The closing of the Visa isn't the issue - it's the opening of the MC. Your clock restarted on the date that card was converted. You should be able to determine the exact date via SM or a phone call to Citi.

Your conversion from AA Visa to Double Cash didn't affect your 24-month clock, because it was a Visa being closed. The opening of the DC doesn't affect your eligibility for an AA card. Of course, this may well change with the new "family" terms - there's no way of knowing for sure yet whether Citi will count AA Visas as being part of the same family. Of course, most AA Visas were converted close to a year ago, so we'll probably never have enough data points to know for sure.
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Old Aug 23, 16, 11:32 am
  #180  
 
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Originally Posted by StartinSanDiego View Post
Be sure to click through to the application page. The T & C page may not say it, but, with your next click, the application might feature the 24 month language boldly, at the top. If it doesn't, you've hit the jackpot.
I always do a Ctrl+F and search for the word "months" on every page - landing page, application page, terms & conditions, more info. Basically any page that could possibly have terms on it. It takes about 15 seconds total, and completely clears my mind of doubts. Of course, also make sure there's nothing in an (unsearchable) image on the landing page or something.
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